Is it possible to feel as much peace discerning marriage as discerning religious life?

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DL82

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When I was on a pilgrimage recently in France, I realised how I had a real desire for fatherhood, ordinary fatherhood, not spiritual, just being a dad.

I´ve recently started dating again (been 2 years since my last and only relationship, finally willing to accept I might be healing). It always hurts, and I always worry I´ve gone too far in giving physical affection before marriage, but in a way I don´t mind the ups and downs, it shows that I´m giving something of myself, even if it doesn´t always get returned in kind.

At the same time, I know St Ignatius´ rules for discernment say that you ought to feel peace about your vocation. I don´t believe it´s possible to feel the same peace about discerning marriage as it is to feel peace about discerning religious life (my other óption´). Is it?

If I can explain a little what I meant by this comment, I simply mean that, as St Paul says, whereas a single man can occupy himself completely with how to please God, a married man will always have that conflict, how to please God and how to please his wife. Also, when we´re talking about making a vow to God for life, the discernment process brings the peace of knowing that whatever you give to God, He will be more generous. When exploring giving your life to another person, you can´t be that sure that the other person really will give back in kind, and so you can get hurt.

I am trying to follow the path of purity, but I´m not going to give up entirely showing physical affection, I don´t like approaches to marriage discernment that seem to take away the feeling element, it´s supposed to feel giddy, and when things don´t work out it´s supposed to hurt! It wouldn´t be life any other way.

Anyway, I guess I´m asking, does the fact that marriage makes me feel ´giddy´, is something that I want more than I can explain, and is something I feel I could do very well and live humbly and pleasing to God while doing it, make that a vocation for me? Does the fact that I feel more peace (though it´s a desolating peace, like at least things can´t get worse) about religious life, mean that I have a religious vocation? I´m worried that marriage is just a temptation, an escape route so I can always make excuses for why I never achieved greatness (in sanctity or anything else) in my life?
 
DL82 said:
Also, when we´re talking about making a vow to God for life, the discernment process brings the peace of knowing that whatever you give to God, He will be more generous. When exploring giving your life to another person, you can´t be that sure that the other person really will give back in kind, and so you can get hurt.
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I discerned for quite a while off and on, but took it up seriously last summer. In November I decided I would enter the seminary upon college graduation, and I felt I was called to be a priest. It was an overwhelming feeling, but at the same time I was bitter and sad about it around my family. I kept the road though for 3 months. What did God do? He put the most wonderful, beautiful girl in my life whom I have now been dating for 4 months and I couldn’t be happier. (I hadn’t dated in 4 years, so I wasn’t even looking for a GF at this time.) Since then the joys of fatherhood (dadhood) have really been realized in my heart. So in my case, I find much more peace in discerning marriage than religious life. I think that’s how I know it’s for me. There will be struggles in either vocation though. That’s to be expected.
 
I guess from reading your thread (and I hope I’m reading too much into this) you seem to have a bit of a negative view of marriage and an over romanticized (sp) view of holy orders.

You can answer the call to purity in both marriage and holy orders. If you feel God might be pulling you to one or another, then take some time and think about it. I don’t know how old you are…but remember that this isn’t the 1900’s. You can get married and/or become a priest at an older age than back then.
 
God is peace itself. Rest in Him, and He will show you the vocation.
 
Rascalking said:
I guess from reading your thread (and I hope I’m reading too much into this) you seem to have a bit of a negative view of marriage and an over romanticized (sp) view of holy orders.

You can answer the call to purity in both marriage and holy orders. If you feel God might be pulling you to one or another, then take some time and think about it. I don’t know how old you are…but remember that this isn’t the 1900’s. You can get married and/or become a priest at an older age than back then.
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On the contrary, I know religious life is hard, and I know I would be sacrificing so much to go into it. I also deeply desire marriage, and know it can be a holy vocation. I guess I have a bit of a negative view about some Catholic views on ´purity´ in dating, which have little to do with the teachings of the Magisterium and more to do with certain largely American authors´ interpretations of the Theology of the Body. I don´t want a relationship to be like a seminary discernment program. I don´t want to always be worrying ´am I going too far kissing her for 0.5 seconds longer than I have before? Will it be a near occasion of scandal if I invite her round to my place to cook dinner for her?´ I´m 27, and not a child, and I am just wondering if it´s immoral to want this lack of peace, to want dating to be the emotional rollercoaster it naturally is? Of course, I keep focussed on 2 things - 1 I´m there for the other person first, 2 I do want to lead to marriage.
 
Dating by its nature involves someone else’s free will and choices. So that’s where the rollercoaster comes in.

You have less choice in the outcome and success of any vocation that depends on someone else’s free will.
 
I had tremendous peace regarding my marriage vocation. It was never anguished or giddy or roller-coasterish. Now, did my relationship with my now-husband feel giddy at times? Of course, I was 19 and madly in love (I’m still madly in love, but in a much deeper kind of way!). That’s a separate thing altogether than feeling giddy about my vocation. I knew deep-down I was meant to be a wife and had a great sense of peace about it.

Relationships, especially when falling in love, CAN feel giddy and amazing and heady at times. To me, that’s a separate issue altogether from feeling giddy about my vocation. Does that make sense?

I do know I was one of the fortunate few who felt UTTER certainty both about my vocation AND about my relationship with my husband. I’m not sure why God gave me that gift, but He did, and I accepted it gratefully. There was never any anguish involved.
 
lovemysix said:
I had tremendous peace regarding my marriage vocation. It was never anguished or giddy or roller-coasterish. Now, did my relationship with my now-husband feel giddy at times? Of course, I was 19 and madly in love (I’m still madly in love, but in a much deeper kind of way!). That’s a separate thing altogether than feeling giddy about my vocation. I knew deep-down I was meant to be a wife and had a great sense of peace about it.

Relationships, especially when falling in love, CAN feel giddy and amazing and heady at times. To me, that’s a separate issue altogether from feeling giddy about my vocation. Does that make sense?

I do know I was one of the fortunate few who felt UTTER certainty both about my vocation AND about my relationship with my husband. I’m not sure why God gave me that gift, but He did, and I accepted it gratefully. There was never any anguish involved.
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That´s really helpful, thanks. It puts it in perspective. Particular relationships can be a rollercoaster, but if it´s your vocation to be married, you´ll feel peace about being married to someone.

I definitely feel peace about the idea of being a faithful husband, dad, and academic or government researcher. At the same time, I don´t know if the thought ´I could have been a priest´ would gnaw at me.
 
DL82 said:
That´s really helpful, thanks. It puts it in perspective. Particular relationships can be a rollercoaster, but if it´s your vocation to be married, you´ll feel peace about being married to someone.

I definitely feel peace about the idea of being a faithful husband, dad, and academic or government researcher. At the same time, I don´t know if the thought ´I could have been a priest´ would gnaw at me.
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Well, to be honest, any of us----when the going gets tough----might be tempted to think “I could have been a CEO” or “I could have been a world traveler” or “I could have found the cure to cancer”. There WILL be times when the grass seems greener. There WILL be times a tiny part of your mind wonders what could have been. Even if it is just a teeny, tiny part…when times are hard, it’s nearly impossible not to fantasize a bit about what might have been. The truth is, no matter what your vocation, choosing to follow it automatically closes other doors of opportunity. That’s just the way it is. I think that when you find the right vocation, you have the ability to see such thoughts for what they are—fantasy and NOT reality.

I’m not saying that you aren’t meant to be a priest. I have no idea what God is calling you to. But please know that just because you think a part of you might always wonder what it might have been like to be a priest does NOT mean you are not called to married life.

I am an extremely happily married woman and mother of many. Have there been times I’ve fantasized about the fact that I could have been this, that, or the other, if I didn’t have six kids? Sure! But I know that God meant for THIS to be my life, and I have a deep sense of peace about it, and I fully recognize such fantasy for what it is. BTW, my husband—also very happy with his vocation—admits to the fact that occasionally he gets the urge to just take off and travel the world. I grant the poor man his fantasies I know he values me and the children over anything traveling the world has to offer 😉 It’s human nature to wonder what could have been, no matter what your vocation.
 
I think it is possible to feel an equal amount of peace in discerning any religious vocation. 🙂
 
DL82 said:
On the contrary, I know religious life is hard, and I know I would be sacrificing so much to go into it. I also deeply desire marriage, and know it can be a holy vocation. I guess I have a bit of a negative view about some Catholic views on ´purity´ in dating, which have little to do with the teachings of the Magisterium and more to do with certain largely American authors´ interpretations of the Theology of the Body. I don´t want a relationship to be like a seminary discernment program. I don´t want to always be worrying ´am I going too far kissing her for 0.5 seconds longer than I have before? Will it be a near occasion of scandal if I invite her round to my place to cook dinner for her?´ I´m 27, and not a child, and I am just wondering if it´s immoral to want this lack of peace, to want dating to be the emotional rollercoaster it naturally is? Of course, I keep focussed on 2 things - 1 I´m there for the other person first, 2 I do want to lead to marriage.
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We don’t disagree on the purity aspect, or lack their of. Far too many people are nuerotic about that. I am in complete agreement with you that we need not worry about the little things like that. God has common sense.

However, your making 27 seem like 103. Yes. Your not a child anymore. True, true, true. But your not about to file for old age benefits, be confined to a wheel chair, and start drooling in your beard.

It sounds like you need to do a “grown up” thing and make the choice between the two options. Either focus on dating, or holy orders.

Look, I don’t mean to sound harsh. Please understand that. 27 is NOT where life has it’s peak, and it’s all downhill from there. Your just starting out for goodness sakes!
 
Rascalking said:
However, your making 27 seem like 103. Yes. Your not a child anymore. True, true, true. But your not about to file for old age benefits, be confined to a wheel chair, and start drooling in your beard.

It sounds like you need to do a “grown up” thing and make the choice between the two options. Either focus on dating, or holy orders.

Look, I don’t mean to sound harsh. Please understand that. 27 is NOT where life has it’s peak, and it’s all downhill from there. Your just starting out for goodness sakes!
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I feel old though. I´ve always been old at heart, always prefered the company of people older and wiser than myself. In my short life I´ve already been an aspiring politician and activist, a teacher, a student, an aspirant (with the Anglican Franciscans), a fiancé, a middle manager, and am now a graduate student. Not to mention becoming Catholic! My life feels a lot like the book of Ecclesiastes, everything I´ve tried turns out to be vanity and emptiness.

I´m clearly having an early mid-life crisis, as evidenced by the fact that I´m writing this from a hotel in a beach resort in Spain frequented by 20-something Brits drinking their way into oblivion. I haven´t drunk myself into oblivion, but have enjoyed being around people who can act young. The only problem with an early mid-life crisis, as opposed to having one in your 40s like normal guys, is that I´m still young enough, if I wanted to, to live the youth I never had. I found myself talking to a 20 year old girl who is from my home town, and asking her out, and dancing together all night. But she´s 20 and acts 20, whereas I´m 27 and act 40. On the other hand, I had a relationship last year with a 35 year old, and felt depressed about the prospect of spending my life with someone so old. How selfish is that!

I´d love to take your point about focussing on one thing rather than the others. The only thing that complicates it is that my PhD supervisor is suggesting I spend the next 3 months living with a religious order in London while I complete my research fieldwork. They´ll only take me if they think there´s a serious hope of my coming to vocation. I guess if circumstances push me into religious life, that wouldn´t be such a bad way of discovering a vocation, except without the fun and excitement of making the journey of discovery for yourself.

Sorry, long, self-pitying post. I´ll go get over myself.
 
I think you need a shrink more than a priest or wife.

Please don’t take it the wrong way!
 
Many years ago, I felt a call to the priesthood. However, I found someone so terrific that I just didn’t want to live without her. We celebrated out 29th anniversary last April.

I think that you just haven’t yet found someone special enough to marry. When you do and fall in love, you’ll know. The thought of letting her slip away will be heartbreaking.

At mass, I often look up at the priest and think, “I wonder if I could have done that.” But, for all its trials and stresses, marriage to a good Catholic woman is a tremendous joy. Just make sure she’s Catholic and has a well-adjusted, stable personality. Most of all, she should be someone who brings you closer to Christ.

I think that if you were really meant to be a priest, there would be very little doubt about it in your mind. After we exchanged our vows, my bride and I knew we were in the right vocation. We’ve grown deeper in love as the years have passed.

Because of the doubts you have expressed, I’m voting for marriage. With the right person, of course. And I doubt very much that you will meet her in a bar.

Whatever you decide, God bless… - Rob in Oregon
 
Rob_in_Oregon said:
Many years ago, I felt a call to the priesthood. However, I found someone so terrific that I just didn’t want to live without her. We celebrated out 29th anniversary last April.

I think that you just haven’t yet found someone special enough to marry. When you do and fall in love, you’ll know. The thought of letting her slip away will be heartbreaking.

At mass, I often look up at the priest and think, “I wonder if I could have done that.” But, for all its trials and stresses, marriage to a good Catholic woman is a tremendous joy. Just make sure she’s Catholic and has a well-adjusted, stable personality. Most of all, she should be someone who brings you closer to Christ.

I think that if you were really meant to be a priest, there would be very little doubt about it in your mind. After we exchanged our vows, my bride and I knew we were in the right vocation. We’ve grown deeper in love as the years have passed.

Because of the doubts you have expressed, I’m voting for marriage. With the right person, of course. And I doubt very much that you will meet her in a bar.

Whatever you decide, God bless… - Rob in Oregon
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Thanks Rob, I really appreciate your words. Can I ask a blunt question, and also ask this to other married men out there - when you met the woman who was to become your wife was physical attraction important? Obviously it´s not everything, but I don´t see how else I can know whether someone´s worth approaching in the first place. I think one of the difficulties I found with the girl in her 30´s was that there just wasn´t any physical attraction, no ´spark´ - I know a marriage can survive without one, but it doesn´t seem to make sense to make things more difficult than they need to be.

I guess I´m just feeling impatient because I´m going to spend the next 3 months living alone and the following 3 months living with monks, and the year after that working harder than I´ve ever worked in my life, and I feel that time is fast ticking away.

I take your point about not meeting the love of my life in a bar though. I´ve never done that before. The fact that the girl was a practicing Catholic just makes me feel worse, like I´ve been an occasion of scandal for her, this guy who wears the miraculous medal and kisses girls he´s just met, what a fool I made of myself.

I guess, and I just started another thread on this issue, I still don´t feel like the knight of faith and the detached and holy gentleman that all the books on chaste Catholic dating say that a man ought to be. I don´t think it´s possible, as a recent convert, for me to be delivered completely from all the temporal effects of the sins of my past, at least not for the forseeable future. It would be different, perhaps, if I´d been brought up in a faithful Catholic family. I´m not sure whether I need to wait until I´m ´fixed´ before I even think about starting either dating or discernment.

There´s also a side of me that thinks I´d be a better husband AFTER I can say that a vocations director has told me I don´t have a vocation to religious life. I keep thinking of M. and Mme Martin, both saints in their own right, St Therese of Liseux´s parents, who had both met after trying out their religious vocations. I guess I don´´t trust myself to make that decision for myself without being influenced by pride and selfishness.
 
Dear DL82:

Yes, I’ve always thought that my wife is pretty. She’s not really a knockout supermodel type, but when I met her I thought that she was pretty cute, in a nice, “girl next door” way.

I think the basic sexual attraction needs to be there for a man to have a sincere interest in a woman. It’s really unfair, judging girls by their appearance, but let’s be honest, we men are programmed that way. We can’t help it, and there’s no point in denying it. If she doesn’t look good to you, you can’t force the attraction to happen.

As a side note: women who are extremely attractive often treat men like dirt. They have so many men after them, so many opportunities, that they think they don’t have to try at all to keep a man happy. A few of my friends married secular women like that and it ended in disaster.

If I had it to do all over again, and I had never met the woman who became my wife, I would have wanted someone just like her, someone cute enough to be attracted to, and also a marvelous friend and companion. And especially, someone of a very strong Catholic faith, which is the most beautiful thing about her.

(Secular women are concerned with protecting their rights. Christian women see the bigger picture, working toward the kingdom of Christ. They can endure minor injustices as long as their husbands love them.)

We’ve never really had any serious threats to our marriage. But in the times when we’ve gotten mad at each other, it’s the faith component that has kept the relationship strong. Seeing my wife in love with Christ and the Church He founded makes me think she’s even prettier. Imagine the beautiful faith of Mother Theresa in a nice-looking young lady; how could a man resist? It gives her an almost sacred aspect, as I see her say grace before eating, as I see her make the sign of the cross before turning out the light at night, as I see her say the divine office that is a part of the rule of the Dominican laity. I often feel like I don’t measure up.

There’s a huge shortage of good women like this who are available for marriage. They, in turn, face a huge shortage of good Christian men. It takes a lot of searching and discerning. But, it can be done.

As far a refraining from sexual activity before marriage: in all honesty, I was not very good at that. Virtually all men, and most women struggle with this issue. Let’s be honest; a man needs to know that his fiancee is not repelled by sexual advances. We need to have some indication that she’s going to respond. Yet the Church teaches abstinence before marriage. If there are failures in chastity, at least the relationship should be moving toward matrimony.

We got married when I was 29 and she was 27. Waiting that long only made me appreciate the marriage all the more. The fact you have waited a while could be a good thing. Go ahead and get that PhD one way or another; your education is important. Does it have to happen in a monastery?

I remember feeling very lonely during my single college years and wondering what in the world would ever become of my need for a good relationship. My college years were filled with depression, loneliness, and anxiety. I don’t know how I ever made it through to graduation. Somehow I did it, and you can too. You can also make it into a wonderful, happy marriage. Don’t give up hope, and don’t let the depression and anxiety stop you from pursuing your dreams.

I hope I’ve given some reasons for optimism. Aren’t these CA forums wonderful? We can express our true feelings, state honest opinions, share and learn, all while retaining some privacy.

I’ll keep your situation in my prayers. Don’t lose hope. You are welcome to email or post again.

God bless… - Rob in Oregon
 
DL

I wanted to say that you’re not the only mid-20’s person who prefers to hang with older folks but still wants to act young sometimes.

I’m 25. Most of my friends are in their 40’s. I’d like to be married but I can’t stand people my age.

In your case I think you’re worrying too much about your future and not putting it in God’s hands. It probably was mighty selfish of you to break up with a woman who’s 7 years older when you speak of talking to a woman 7 years younger as if that makes any sense.

Right now, however, it sounds like you’re running like Jonah. Watch the veggie tales movie to get yourself back on track, then read about Jonah in the Bible.
 
Rob_in_Oregon said:
Many years ago, I felt a call to the priesthood. However, I found someone so terrific that I just didn’t want to live without her. We celebrated out 29th anniversary last April.

I think that you just haven’t yet found someone special enough to marry. When you do and fall in love, you’ll know. The thought of letting her slip away will be heartbreaking.

At mass, I often look up at the priest and think, “I wonder if I could have done that.” But, for all its trials and stresses, marriage to a good Catholic woman is a tremendous joy. Just make sure she’s Catholic and has a well-adjusted, stable personality. Most of all, she should be someone who brings you closer to Christ.

I think that if you were really meant to be a priest, there would be very little doubt about it in your mind. After we exchanged our vows, my bride and I knew we were in the right vocation. We’ve grown deeper in love as the years have passed.

Because of the doubts you have expressed, I’m voting for marriage. With the right person, of course. And I doubt very much that you will meet her in a bar.

Whatever you decide, God bless… - Rob in Oregon
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Very well said, the only thing I would add, is … when you decide marriage(if you do) dont just settle for the first one who will take you…Wait for the one who makes you smile from the inner most part of you! Jesus will point her out!
 
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