Is it possible to join the Catholic Church and support gay marriage and abortion rights?

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Please point me to a paragraph. I remember the CCC saying they must be opposed, but is this a mortal sin that will deny me salvation? Can I still be a practicing Catholic in a state of grace despite not following that paragraph?
A Catholic cannot just pick and choose which teachings to follow just because they are not personally convenient. To be close to Jesus is to deny ourselves and pick up our cross(es), even it’s not hip and cool by American millennial standards to do so.

I would suggest that you schedule an appointment with a parish priest and express your interest and your concerns. I’m not convinced you’re going to find what you are looking for on here.
 
However, I do agree with the Catholic Church’s teachings on spiritual matters, such as the fallacy of Sola Scriptura, the importance of sacraments, and the Catholic Church being the original founded by Jesus.
How exactly can you hold that the Catholic Church is the original founded by Jesus and deny one of the most authoritative moral teachings she has issued? Those would seem to contradict, no?
  1. The Catholic Church is the original church founded by Jesus [common premise between you and me]
  2. Jesus preserves the original church He founded from teaching error [Bible, e.g. “You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” - from 2 Timothy 2. Furthermore a plausibility argument highly supports this: why would Jesus - God - found a Church which would then go off the rails and teach falsities, if He intended it to be the vessel through which people would come to Him?]
  3. Therefore, the Catholic Church is preserved from teaching error [conclusion]
  4. Whatever the Catholic Church teaches is not error [rephrased from conclusion above]
  5. What is not erroneous is true [definitions]
  6. Whatever the Catholic Church teaches is true [conclusion]
  7. Whatever the Catholic Church teaches is true [conclusion above]
  8. The Catholic Church teaches abortion is wrong [John Paul II, *Evangelium vitae, along with thousands of years of tradition]
  9. The teaching of the Catholic Church that abortion is wrong is true [conclusion]
We also know that thanks to years of liberal education, millenials are definitely liberal and will slowly take charge of this world, and that it will become increasingly difficult to survive as a cultural conservative in an increasingly postmodern, liberal culture. Imagine coming out as a conservative at work, or among friends. And many women will refuse to date conservative men.
  1. gallup.com/poll/162548/americans-misjudge-abortion-views.aspx
  2. gallup.com/poll/154838/pro-choice-americans-record-low.aspx
  3. So? I refuse to date liberal women. Sounds like that would just make it easier for me.
 
I agree with Buffalo’s response and add my own emphatic No!

In your own words:

‘Since after months of debating you guys, I’ve determined that nothing will change my mind on the abortion and gay marriage issues, is it possible to just be a quiet convert to Catholicism and still support abortion and gay marriage rights (after all, that’s what most who claim Catholicism are doing anyway)?’

If you do this you will be committing a mortal sin by living a lie. Why do it? It is illogical. You will have to confess that you do not support the Church’s position on gay marriage or the sanctity of life. If you do not you will participate in the sacraments of communion and confirmation under false pretenses. That is deception and could be described as blasphemy.

That is all I have to say on the subject. Peace!
 
“For such is the nature of faith that nothing can be more absurd than to accept some things and reject others.” - Satis Cognitum (June 29, 1896)
“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.” - Matt. 6:24
 
I was not aware that either marriage and/or abortion were rights.
 
.

I do know that Protestant churches run circles around Catholic parishes when it comes to building community. (I’ve written about this so many times.)
My experience has been SO very opposite to that. Maybe the difference is just where you live, and where I live.
 
I used to have gay bosses. There are several gays at my work. One of my best friends came out as gay. In fact, this is another reason why I just can’t see Jesus denying civil rights to these people. What have they done so wrong? How does it honestly affect me, not just theoretically, but in real life?

I do know that my Protestant friends would be disappointed, and many of them would just forget about me with the passage of time, as we go to different churches and lose touch.

I do know that Protestant churches run circles around Catholic parishes when it comes to building community. (I’ve written about this so many times.)
Jesus isn’t denying anyone civil rights. We are all His children. There are guidelines in the e bible, however, about marriage being only between a man and a woman. So being gay isn’t a sin—acting on those homosexual impulses is. But again, so is fornication. And as I stated before, there aren’t a lot of unmarried people I know whom are still virgins, and that’s also a sin. People tend to dust that one under the rug as if one sin is worse than the other, but we cannot decide that, only God can judge us.

All I can say in regards to your Protestant friends and acquaintances, if they turn their back on you for transitions into Catholicism (we ARE the original Christians) then they aren’t very good friends to begin with. 🤷
 
Depends on what you mean.

Is it possible? Sure, it is possible. People do stuff like that all the time.

Is is acceptable or allowed? No. Under Catholic teaching, it would be a very serious offence. Not only potential mortal sin, but possibly automatic excommunication for heresy.
 
That is a whole lot of conversation.

First. The Christian loves the sinner and hates the sin. I work with gay married people. I have good relations with them. I don’t agree with their choice lifestyle but I do support monogamy. The gay couple who is not promiscuous is not at risk for disease.

Second. The gay lifestyle is probably less damaging than the heterosexual fornicators. Fornicators and adulterers cause unwanted pregnancy, abort children, encourage the spread of disease, etc. This behavior leads to death and ruins lives of adults and children.

God hates promiscuity whether it by fornication, adultery, or Sodomy. All lead to death.

Homosexuals are the hot topic in the press and the pulpit but we really shouldn’t leave out other destructive sins.

Scripture says we are to be a good example for others and lead people to a relationship with Christ. We are not to judge, however, unrepentant sinners should not be included in a church membership or roll. Liberal acceptance of sin is the downfall to many churches.

I will leave you with this warning: Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luke 15:10
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 
I believe the Magisterium needs to change or the Church will lose relevance in just one more generation. If not, the Church will still survive, but as a remnant, tiny church.
Honestly, from a historical and sociological perspective, it seems hard to take such claims seriously. Statements like this have been made literally for hundreds of years, and never seem to have materialized. People are still making statements like this today, and there is no demographic evidence that this is the case. The population of the secular nations are dropping, religiosity is increasing, and the Church is very strong in the developing world, with both increased growth(Africa) and revitalization(Latin America). .
 
You really do NOT believe in Catholicism, I am afraid to say.

Not even the “spriritualy” as you say.

The essence of Catholicism is Gods love for ALL of humanity and that He knows what is best for our ultimate happiness.

How can you say you believe in a God that would ever want to allow mothers to kill their chidlren?? No amount of mental mind twisting will ever conclude with believing in a God that could love us immeasureably and NOT demand that civil law protects the most defenseless among us. A womans right to her body means nothing in Gods mind relative to the life of His children.

If you could at least get your head and heart around that one and come to see the evil of allowing even accepting civil statutes you would be almost home.

I say that because you opposition to civil gay “marriage” is not quite in the same realm. There could be legitimate Constitutional arguments for allowing states the right to determine the definition of marriage. I dont agree with them and I dont really care. I would still argue against the ability of anyone to change the defintion of an institution that God has meant for a very specific purspose-one man and one woman and children. Nevertheless, if you say you accept gay “marriage” as a possible interpretation of rights in the US Constitution but still accept the Church’s teaching that marriage can ONLY be between a man and a woman, then I believe you very close to accepting Catholcism in this area. If however your acceptance of gay “marriage” means you believe the Church should sanctinon it as a sacramental practice that is an entirely different story! Even if you believe gay rights to be the “proper” a civil “good” and actually favor extending the right of marriage to homosexuals I believe you are cutting yourself off from the Church.

With all sincerity, it boggles my mind to believe you could be interested in Catholicism and yet hung up on these two issues. You have the potential to be in the Real Presence of our Living God in Eucharist, to have fountains of grace that no other church even offers, with the practical exception of Orthodoxy, and yet your desire to support the two evils of homosexuality and abortion keep you at bay? I would say that is a real sign of Satan working very hard to keep you from our Lord! I am not one to see Satan lurking behind every shadow at all. Yet your protestations over these two issues seem so strange to me. Furthermore, your statement that you would lose friends if you became Catholic struck me as somewhat telling possibly. Could your hesitation over these issues really just a be a matter of a kind of peer pressure, a kind of need to feel accepted by your group of friends who all believe in these liberal values? Or do you really believe that these two civll rights are inheretnly moral goods??

I would almost pray your situation is the former. A deepening faith can easily overcome fears of alienating friends and feeling outcast. If , however you truly believe in the two issues hanging you up, I am afraid you really do not understand Catholicsim at all. Unfortunately neither do half of all Catholics which is why so many support these same two issues. They are liberals or Democrats first and Christian Catholics second. It sounds like you have come to a cross roads, my friend. Do you really want to know and grow in the Living God through His Church, and live a truly heroic life? Or do you simply want to continue on with your old ways , your old ways of thinking? I challenge you to simply want to find the truth and not find ways to be accepted with your same old thinking, whether that means being accepted by your current friends and family as a Catholic or whether you are trying to be accepted by the Church with your current thinking. Stop trying to find a church agrees with YOUR thinking but come to THE Church that challenges us to give everything to Him . St. Ignatious wrote this prayer I think is appropriate here:

“Take, Lord, and receive all my liberty, my memory and my understanding and my entire will, all I have and all I call my own.You have given all to me.To you Lord I return it. Everything is yours; to do with what you will. Give me only your love and your grace, that is enough for me”

I pray you, and all of us surrender ourselves to Him.I can only imagine how amazing the world would be if only half of Catholics prayed and lived this prayer. Instead we muddle in our own desires and beliefs out of fear and pride. You have a choice now. You can become heroic or continue to muddle.

I am praying for us all to become heroic!

God bless!! Thank you for you post!
 
They see me trollin’
I’m laughin’
They don’t know that I be postin’ dirty.
 
No.

As an employee of the USCCB, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, said on an episode of Mother Angelica Live, “it is impossible to speak with a Catholic voice in support of abortion”.

This rebuke was geared at the “Catholics” which you mention, who do support abortion. They are guilty of grave sin, and they support a grave moral evil, the deliberate taking of human life. I’ll use the word grave again, in saying that abortion is a grave violation natural law, the moral law.

These people may claim to be Catholic, they may think they’re Catholic, they may go to Mass, and God forbid, even receive our Blessed Lord unworthily, defiling the Sacrament… but they’re not fooling God.

You can pull the wool over people’s eyes, no one will know in Church that you’re living a lie, keeping your pro-abortion views to yourself, but God will know.

You can’t pull the wool over God’s eyes, you can’t fool God.

My advice would be to not try it, you will fail.

He will see your unrepentant heart, your obstinant attachment to the sin of abortion, and yes supporting gay marriage as well. The sin of abortion is much worse, it falls under the fifth commandment: Thou Shall Not Kill.

You are in violation of the fifth commandment, by obstinately supporting abortion.
 
I say this without an ounce of sarcasm or hostility in my heart. I am sure you are a good person.
If nothing we have said will change your mind about abortion, and other church doctrine, I think you would be better off with your Protestant friends. In any case as you know, you are always a welcome member here.
 
Hello it’s your favorite liberal again! 😃

So as you know from my numerous posts, I support gay marriage and abortion rights. And none of the responses I’ve received from you have changed my mind on the issue.

We also know that thanks to years of liberal education, millenials are definitely liberal and will slowly take charge of this world, and that it will become increasingly difficult to survive as a cultural conservative in an increasingly postmodern, liberal culture. Imagine coming out as a conservative at work, or among friends. And many women will refuse to date conservative men.

However, I do agree with the Catholic Church’s teachings on spiritual matters, such as the fallacy of Sola Scriptura, the importance of sacraments, and the Catholic Church being the original founded by Jesus.

I find myself agreeing with the speeches of Protestant converts to Catholicism such as John Martignoni and Scott Hahn, among others.

Though I am a former Protestant and an agnostic now, I don’t see myself staying one for long, simply because I admit I’m a coward and I am afraid of the uncertainties of life, and need something to lean on.

However, conversion to Catholicism would also mean the loss of most of my friends, who are Protestant.

Since after months of debating you guys, I’ve determined that nothing will change my mind on the abortion and gay marriage issues, is it possible to just be a quiet convert to Catholicism and still support abortion and gay marriage rights (after all, that’s what most who claim Catholicism are doing anyway)?
The church is 100% against abortion…

If YOU are an abortion supporter then THIS is what you are supporting

priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/index.htm
 
I’m not experienced in this since I was baptized as a baby, but I think you have to take an oath to follow both Sacred Scriptures and Church Tradition. Church Tradition would include the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which clearly states that abortion and gay marriage are contrary to God’s will (grave sins). I’m not saying that all Catholics believe this though. I would not be surprised if the majority secretly support gay marriage and abortion. They just pick and choose what they believe. If they don’t believe everything, they really can’t call themselves Catholic though.
 
I’m not experienced in this since I was baptized as a baby, but I think you have to take an oath to follow both Sacred Scriptures and Church Tradition. Church Tradition would include the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which clearly states that abortion and gay marriage are contrary to God’s will (grave sins). I’m not saying that all Catholics believe this though. I would not be surprised if the majority secretly support gay marriage and abortion. They just pick and choose what they believe. If they don’t believe everything, they really can’t call themselves Catholic though.
:yup: If they are Baptized in another Christian Faith Tradition - See my post #19 … If un-baptized then they have to renounce Satan and all his evil works :yup:
“I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church teaches, believes and proclaims to be revealed by God.”
 
I admit I’m a coward and I am afraid of the uncertainties of life, and need something to lean on.
You cannot be a Christian and be a coward at the same time. That is being lukewarm. Work on that first. There are people who have had to give up their life for the faith, literally. To become a Christian because you are afraid of the uncertainties of life makes a mockery of their sacrifice and strength and will make you a hypocrite when times really get tough.

As for you politics. To be a Christian of any faith is to be “in the world, not of the world”, which a Protestant friend may have told you already. Some things that seem so right to us in this world are not right in the eyes of God.

Frankly, I dislike political labels on people. Your OP sounded a bit narrow minded to me because you talked about labels and groups rather than beliefs and individuals.
 
St Augustine is noted for saying that he who only believes in the gospel where it is agreeable to him, is not believing in the gospel, but in himself

The crux of the saying is that it is precisely the contentious issues, rather than the well-liked issues, that make or break one’s entry into the Church. The scriptures speak on many occasions of requiring to become an alleged fool if you wish to become wise. This is as relevant today as it was when it was written. Nobody can stop you from subtlety sliding your way into the Church while subscribing to these non-negotiable ethics; it wouldn’t exactly be hard, but you do so in opposition to the apostles and to God’s Law, which endangers you to the eternal fire.

If you don’t mind me analyzing your character, I think your admittance as a coward is directly tied to your timidity on gay marriage and abortion. The idea of standing in opposition to them sours your stomach and renders your mind incapable of a clearer judgement on them. With this, the best advice I can give is to continue to pray to God for guidance and strength and that he illuminate you on these stumbling blocks of yours, and to continue to learn about the faith. There are countless people that stood where you stand now that thought they would surely never change, and yet they have, including myself as well as the man who I quoted at the beginning of this post. God bless.
 
First of all your posts make me both sad and mad due to the fact that you appear gleeful while speaking of abortion and gay marriage while not understanding anything about mortal sin. In your assessment, the Catholic church will become a “tiny” church if it does not adjust to the immoral liberal mindset. The Catholic Church will survive as it has for the past two thousand years and it will prosper and it will not embrace sin no matter how many people or political parties make this demand. The gates of hell will not prevail against God’s church.

Concerning whether or not you can become a Catholic and not believe in Catholic doctrine, you should make an appointment with a priest to answer your questions.
Faith often comes before understanding. Pray to God and ask Him for the gift of faith and ultimately understanding of why your beliefs are seriously wrong. Attend Catholic church (without receiving the Eucharist) and read the Catholic bible, catechism and other orthodox Catholic books about saints etc. It is good that you desire to become Catholic. God has put that desire in your heart but do not offend God by entering His church and then disrespecting the beliefs of the Catholic Church.
 
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