Is it possible to love a person who has a personality disorder?

[mommamaree]

For a emotionally healthy human being, loving one’s family members is the normal and natural way of things, correct? I am curious about when a healthy individual is closely related to a disturbed individual. The healthy individual is likely to have deep love for the disturbed individual, even if the disturbed individual is incapable of love and is possibly a dangerous or toxic person, isn’t that true?
When this happens, when the healthy individual is grieving because of making a tough decision to cease contact with the disturbed individual, and their feelings of love for this person become overwhelming, and the person becomes confused about their decision, what then can a healthy individual do? Does the fact that they love the disturbed individual mean that they should maintain contact of sorts? What can a healthy individual do when love compels them to do what prudence would forbid, namely, reconcile without any indication of a genuine desire to get treatment for severe personality disorder on the part of the disturbed individual? What can the healthy person do with that love, when they cannot give it directly to their disturbed loved one through word and deed? How can the healthy person not lose their head and do something imprudent and expose themselves to further abuse? What about when there exists a further complication of the disturbed individual being the guardian of an innocent minor child relative, with whom a relationship is both desired and necessary?
I know that these are many and challenging questions, and that I have spoken in generalities here. I did not know any other way to get to the heart of my troubles right now, except to start with these questions. I am willing to clarify anything that is not understood, and I can give supportive details as necessary. Please help with advice in this matter. Thank you very much.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I often wonder about the same thing.

There is something unnatural about ending contact with close family, it’s just not supposed to be like that. But with some people there is just no other way if one wants to remain sane. I think that ideally a balance should be struck where the relationship with the disturbed individual is superficial and there are very clear boundaries in place. But in reality people with personality disorders don’t understand boundaries and don’t know how to behave towards other people. It tends to be their way or no way.

For that reason I ended contact with my disturbed individual because his way was just a bit too crazy and I couldn’t deal with it anymore. I have recently realised that I don’t love this person for who they are, but I love an imaginary person. I fantasise about what this person should have been for me and feel such longing and sadness. But then reality kicks in and I remember what I was dealing with and how it affect me and my family. I have managed to let go of this need to have them in my life by forgiving them, wishing them well and by praying for them. Some days are really hard and I find the situation difficult. I just have to remind myself what the alternative would be if we reconciled.

So I don’t really have an answer on what to do except to hand it over to God, to pray and to simply wait for the time being. Maybe you need more than 6 months to figure it out. Have you asked Mary who is your spiritual mother to help you?

 

[mommamaree]

I often wonder about the same thing.

There is something unnatural about ending contact with close family, it’s just not supposed to be like that. But with some people there is just no other way if one wants to remain sane. I think that ideally a balance should be struck where the relationship with the disturbed individual is superficial and there are very clear boundaries in place. But in reality people with personality disorders don’t understand boundaries and don’t know how to behave towards other people. It tends to be their way or no way.

For that reason I ended contact with my disturbed individual because his way was just a bit too crazy and I couldn’t deal with it anymore. I have recently realised that I don’t love this person for who they are, but I love an imaginary person. I fantasise about what this person should have been for me and feel such longing and sadness. But then reality kicks in and I remember what I was dealing with and how it affect me and my family. I have managed to let go of this need to have them in my life by forgiving them, wishing them well and by praying for them. Some days are really hard and I find the situation difficult. I just have to remind myself what the alternative would be if we reconciled.

So I don’t really have an answer on what to do except to hand it over to God, to pray and to simply wait for the time being. Maybe you need more than 6 months to figure it out. Have you asked Mary who is your spiritual mother to help you?

Thank you for responding so quickly, Contra Mundum.
It has been slightly more than 6 months now, and yesterday I FaceTimed with my niece and caught glimpses of my mother in the background as she moved about the room behind my niece. It broke my heart inside to see glimpses of her and not be able to actually talk to her. But I knew it was dangerous for me to. Thank God she actually respected my boundaries (at least for one time) and facilitated that contact with my niece without interfering.
That is why I am asking these questions today.
I have not asked Mary to help me. What exactly could I ask if I were to implore her aid?
I probably should use my feelings of love to turn to prayer, but I admit I am afraid. It feels futile and I am afraid of getting my hopes up. I truly believe that God can work miracles, but I need to stay in touch with the reality that in most lives, He does not intervene with a miraculous healing. Maybe I should pray also to St. Dymphna. Isn’t she the patron saint of those with mental illnesses?
I wish that I had an action that I could do, perhaps a little shrine to a saint before which I could physically go to pray, so that when I am overwhelmed with the desire to call or communicate, I could instead to a prayer.
Is it unwise to hope that the Holy Spirit will bring about a real healing in this situation?

P.S. My niece was received into the Catholic Church and made her First Holy Communion this month. My mother’s status is unknown to me currently, but the last I knew, she was waiting on annulments. Yet the priest must have had strong evidence that my niece will be raised Catholic, because he allowed her to receive her first sacraments. That must mean something good, right? I hope…

 

[Christy_Beth]

I am a person with Borderline Personality disorder, among other things (like depression). I find it hard to be in relationships because of this. I have found some people who seem to see past this. I mean, I’m just now trying to learn what “healthy” boundries are. But it isn’t necessarily a part of the BPD. Ok, so maybe it is. But it’s one of those things I never learned growing up, like a “normal” person would. There are a lot of issues there. Like abuse.

I’m now 50, and only recently has my problems been addressed in a way where I can, hopefully and prayerfully, learn how to “get along” with others. I need to learn more than just how to have appropriate boundries. And it isn’t like I’ve never been able to get along with anyone. I have a few friends. And those I once knew aren’t always no longer in my life due to my mental illness. We moved a lot, so I had a hard time learning how to make, and keep, friends. So many relationships fractured by stuff outside of my control. I think that’s probably one way to put it. The feeling that so many things are outside of my control.

I am in therapy, and on meds, for my different things (like I said BPD isn’t the only diagnosis), so I am working on it. But I still need normal people who are understanding enough to say something when I’m starting to act out. If allowed, it would get really messy. I can sometimes see the misbehavior coming before the train wreck, but having friends caring enough to gently ask if I’ve taken my meds is a big help. Or simply ask, “are you ok?” There might be something triggering the “episode.” And if the person isn’t in some kind of therapy, encourage that.

I hope this helps. :sad_yes:

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I have not asked Mary to help me. What exactly could I ask if I were to implore her aid?

I probably should use my feelings of love to turn to prayer, but I admit I am afraid. It feels futile and I am afraid of getting my hopes up. I truly believe that God can work miracles, but I need to stay in touch with the reality that in most lives, He does not intervene with a miraculous healing. Maybe I should pray also to St. Dymphna. Isn’t she the patron saint of those with mental illnesses?
Is it unwise to hope that the Holy Spirit will bring about a real healing in this situation?

That is great news about your niece.

Can you go to church and pray there when you feel the need? You have several little ones, right? I understand it can be really difficult to get out of the house alone. Could you create space especially designed for prayer at your home? Put statues, pictures and candles there, and go and pray or read when you feel upset and sad.

As for the paragraph above, I don’t think it works that way. I mean, miraculous healings do happen and I believe in them. But the point of you praying is primarily for yourself here. Ask God for courage and peace, and to help you in a way that you need right now. Also pray for your mother, that she finds peace and that God has mercy on her. You should pray for her wellbeing but not with the focus that he heals her in the way you imagine it should happen. I find that the less specific we are in the way we pray, the better it is. So if I were you I would not necessarily pray for her to be healed of her disorder, but would just put her in God’s hands and ask for His will to be done. He knows what you need anyway. You can pray without words if you can, and that doesn’t make a difference: He still knows what you need.

So don’t get focused on your mother’s healing because if it doesn’t happen you will be sorely disappointed and will suffer even more. Pray for yourself that you learn to let go and that you find consolation.

I find that the Rosary really helps in these things. Mary is our mother and you can ask her to make that reality more clear to you. Ask her to really be your mother in the absence of your natural one.

Another thing I want to mention, and which helped me very much in dealing with my own situation, is that maybe this person will not be healed in this life. I suspect I will not be completely healed from my own sins and scars in this life either, although I am trying to do what needs to be done. That is what Purgatory is for. Given that your mother desires to lead a good Christian life, despite her disorder, there is hope that she will attain salvation.
All of this is what a priest told me once when I talked to him about ruined relationships and impossibility of repair. He simply reminded me that things don’t end in this life and that in the next we will become who God wants us to be, and that everything will be made right.

 

[mommamaree]

That is great news about your niece.

Can you go to church and pray there when you feel the need? You have several little ones, right? I understand it can be really difficult to get out of the house alone. Could you create space especially designed for prayer at your home? Put statues, pictures and candles there, and go and pray or read when you feel upset and sad.

As for the paragraph above, I don’t think it works that way. I mean, miraculous healings do happen and I believe in them. But the point of you praying is primarily for yourself here. Ask God for courage and peace, and to help you in a way that you need right now. Also pray for your mother, that she finds peace and that God has mercy on her. You should pray for her wellbeing but not with the focus that he heals her in the way you imagine it should happen. I find that the less specific we are in the way we pray, the better it is. So if I were you I would not necessarily pray for her to be healed of her disorder, but would just put her in God’s hands and ask for His will to be done. He knows what you need anyway. You can pray without words if you can, and that doesn’t make a difference: He still knows what you need.

So don’t get focused on your mother’s healing because if it doesn’t happen you will be sorely disappointed and will suffer even more. Pray for yourself that you learn to let go and that you find consolation.

I find that the Rosary really helps in these things. Mary is our mother and you can ask her to make that reality more clear to you. Ask her to really be your mother in the absence of your natural one.

Another thing I want to mention, and which helped me very much in dealing with my own situation, is that maybe this person will not be healed in this life. I suspect I will not be completely healed from my own sins and scars in this life either, although I am trying to do what needs to be done. That is what Purgatory is for. Given that your mother desires to lead a good Christian life, despite her disorder, there is hope that she will attain salvation.
All of this is what a priest told me once when I talked to him about ruined relationships and impossibility of repair. He simply reminded me that things don’t end in this life and that in the next we will become who God wants us to be, and that everything will be made right.

Oh, this helps me so much. I fully expect that should I attain heaven, my mother will be greeting me there. I know that, despite whatever her failures and inadequacies might be, her lifetime of devotions and prayers and Scripture-reading could not possibly be in vain. She simply loves to immerse herself in beautiful words from Scripture, beautiful icons of saints, and beautiful experiences like the Mass and prayer at her home altar.
I also really appreciate your advice on HOW to pray about this situation. That helps so much.
I really do think that I need to create a “mothering” place for myself, for prayer and tears. An actual physical location within my home, where I can go when I am really tempted to contact my mother. Something with an icon, prayer candle, a statue, some prayer cards and such, and a rosary. I am a very tactile person, and I express my love through acts of service and physical touch and words of affirmation. So if I can go and pour out my love for my mother into prayers at an actual place in my home, then maybe it will help me deal with my love for her.
I know that I am loving the actual her, too, and not my whom I might imagine her to be. I worried about that last year, but when my grief increases just by catching a glimpse of her hand as she passes my niece the guinea pigs to show me on FaceTime, then I know that it is not just my imagination of a relationship that causes me grief.
This is really hard. I think I also need to pray that God will strengthen me and make me more “durable”. My hope is that someday, I will be able to have conversations with my mother and be able to lovingly tell her to “knock it off” when she starts up, or be able to just leave if she becomes manipulative or abusive, rather than to remain silently absorbing all the injuries she inflicts upon me. I think it is far more likely that God will grant me that strength than that God will remove her disturbances.

 

[mommamaree]

I am a person with Borderline Personality disorder, among other things (like depression). I find it hard to be in relationships because of this. I have found some people who seem to see past this. I mean, I’m just now trying to learn what “healthy” boundries are. But it isn’t necessarily a part of the BPD. Ok, so maybe it is. But it’s one of those things I never learned growing up, like a “normal” person would. There are a lot of issues there. Like abuse.

I’m now 50, and only recently has my problems been addressed in a way where I can, hopefully and prayerfully, learn how to “get along” with others. I need to learn more than just how to have appropriate boundries. And it isn’t like I’ve never been able to get along with anyone. I have a few friends. And those I once knew aren’t always no longer in my life due to my mental illness. We moved a lot, so I had a hard time learning how to make, and keep, friends. So many relationships fractured by stuff outside of my control. I think that’s probably one way to put it. The feeling that so many things are outside of my control.

I am in therapy, and on meds, for my different things (like I said BPD isn’t the only diagnosis), so I am working on it. But I still need normal people who are understanding enough to say something when I’m starting to act out. If allowed, it would get really messy. I can sometimes see the misbehavior coming before the train wreck, but having friends caring enough to gently ask if I’ve taken my meds is a big help. Or simply ask, “are you ok?” There might be something triggering the “episode.” And if the person isn’t in some kind of therapy, encourage that.

I hope this helps. :sad_yes:

Your post helps me greatly, Christy Beth. Thank you for sharing your story. My mother is 55, so only a few years older than yourself. Much of what you say I imagine to be similar to my mother’s experience. The fact that you are able to cope and maintain relationships, albeit with patience and compassion on the part of your friends, and with accountability and honesty on your part, gives me hope. God bless you and I thank you again.

 

[ellzeena]

For a emotionally healthy human being, loving one’s family members is the normal and natural way of things, correct? I am curious about when a healthy individual is closely related to a disturbed individual. The healthy individual is likely to have deep love for the disturbed individual, even if the disturbed individual is incapable of love and is possibly a dangerous or toxic person, isn’t that true?
When this happens, when the healthy individual is grieving because of making a tough decision to cease contact with the disturbed individual, and their feelings of love for this person become overwhelming, and the person becomes confused about their decision, what then can a healthy individual do? Does the fact that they love the disturbed individual mean that they should maintain contact of sorts? What can a healthy individual do when love compels them to do what prudence would forbid, namely, reconcile without any indication of a genuine desire to get treatment for severe personality disorder on the part of the disturbed individual? What can the healthy person do with that love, when they cannot give it directly to their disturbed loved one through word and deed? How can the healthy person not lose their head and do something imprudent and expose themselves to further abuse? What about when there exists a further complication of the disturbed individual being the guardian of an innocent minor child relative, with whom a relationship is both desired and necessary?
I know that these are many and challenging questions, and that I have spoken in generalities here. I did not know any other way to get to the heart of my troubles right now, except to start with these questions. I am willing to clarify anything that is not understood, and I can give supportive details as necessary. Please help with advice in this matter. Thank you very much.

It appears that you are referring to a personal relationship between adults (married, sister/brother) and not between parent and child.

In a relationship with someone who is mentally ill and is clearly a threat to others (not merely him/her self), a woman (or man) must make a decision based upon the safety of any children in the home as well as his/her own personal safety. If I were in such a situation, I would seek serious counsel from my spiritual director/priest. Some relationships among family members are extremely toxic and harmful. It is said that when one person in a household is “sick”, the entire household is “sick”. Any decision must be made in charity and with a clear conscience (not so easy, is it?)

However: if the person who suffers the mental illness is your CHILD, you must then do everything in your power, regardless of the effects upon yourself, to love, help, guide and protect that person, regardless of his/her age. I know. I’ve done it. I believe that God puts some souls’ “feet to the fire” for His unknowable purpose. I would have died at the hands of my daughter should she have been violent towards others rather than turn my back on her in her torment. Schizo-affective disorder is quite different from a personality disorder (although the DSM does qualify both as mental illness). There are quite a few people out there who suffer from some form of “personality disorder”, some are sociopaths and quite dangerous. Others are emotionally toxic. I don’t think you need to bare your soul on a public forum and discuss intimate details of your life to get an answer to this question, although of course you are free to do so (I have). I think prayer, receiving the Sacraments, and seeking the will of God and the direction of the Holy Spirit will bring you the answers you need. May God give you peace.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I’m so glad my posts have been helpful.

I just remembered a story about a very similar situation that I’ve read about here on CAF. I don’t remember who the poster was, but the story really resonated with me. It is also related to what the priest told me about healing in the next life, so maybe you will find it comforting as well. (I hope it is not rude to mention someone else’s story here, but I am doing it with the best intention.)

She had a very difficult relationship with one of the parents, they were either not talking or barely did. It was a source of a lot of pain for her. And when the parent died she was devastated, and not so much because of their death but because of the potential that was forever lost. She would never know the love of that parent as it should have been. One day she was in church crying when a thought came to her: that her parent was not that person anymore. And that knowledge changed everything and her relationship towards the deceased changed.

I often remember this story, it is so moving and beautiful.

 

[Nimzovik]

I have indeed seen a borderline in a positive relationship. It is very rare. The person that has successfully pulled off a relationship with the BPD (2 tops, I have seen) is an almost literal saint. And a* very* well informed saint, of the processes of the disorder as well. Often these saints take offense at nothing. After all? Is not a Character disorder part of the Sin process? When these saints approach the issue from this perspective, they find it easier to deal, methinks.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[mommamaree]

It appears that you are referring to a personal relationship between adults (married, sister/brother) and not between parent and child.

In a relationship with someone who is mentally ill and is clearly a threat to others (not merely him/her self), a woman (or man) must make a decision based upon the safety of any children in the home as well as his/her own personal safety. If I were in such a situation, I would seek serious counsel from my spiritual director/priest. Some relationships among family members are extremely toxic and harmful. It is said that when one person in a household is “sick”, the entire household is “sick”. Any decision must be made in charity and with a clear conscience (not so easy, is it?)

However: if the person who suffers the mental illness is your CHILD, you must then do everything in your power, regardless of the effects upon yourself, to love, help, guide and protect that person, regardless of his/her age. I know. I’ve done it. I believe that God puts some souls’ “feet to the fire” for His unknowable purpose. I would have died at the hands of my daughter should she have been violent towards others rather than turn my back on her in her torment. Schizo-affective disorder is quite different from a personality disorder (although the DSM does qualify both as mental illness). There are quite a few people out there who suffer from some form of “personality disorder”, some are sociopaths and quite dangerous. Others are emotionally toxic. I don’t think you need to bare your soul on a public forum and discuss intimate details of your life to get an answer to this question, although of course you are free to do so (I have). I think prayer, receiving the Sacraments, and seeking the will of God and the direction of the Holy Spirit will bring you the answers you need. May God give you peace.

The disturbed person is my mother. I am adult, with a home and a family of my own, so I am not sharing a household with her. I strongly desire to maintain contact with her, but thus far, that has been so harmful that I have had to go on “sabbatical”, to borrow a phrase from another poster here that helped me last year, so that I could heal and distance myself from the maltreatment and begin to learn how to set and enforce my own personal boundaries. I have come a long way in a half year, and yet I know that I still have a long way to go. You mention sociopathy…unfortunately, that is what we suspect she might have. I don’t want to believe that of her, but it fits the descriptions given in a couple of books that I have read about personality disorders. Thankfully, however, she is not a violent sociopath. I know that, in this life, I will never ever ever be able to trust her. I just want to be able to have simple conversations with her in the future, and of course, I have hope for heaven for both her and myself.

 

[mommamaree]

I have indeed seen a borderline in a positive relationship. It is very rare. The person that has successfully pulled off a relationship with the BPD (2 tops, I have seen) is an almost literal saint. And a* very* well informed saint, of the processes of the disorder as well. Often these saints take offense at nothing. After all? Is not a Character disorder part of the Sin process? When these saints approach the issue from this perspective, they find it easier to deal, methinks.

Just my 2 cents.

Your two cents are worth far more than that!

I really need to pray that God makes me a living saint, so that I take offense at nothing. If I cooperate with His grace and He works that miracle in me, how wonderful that would be! I do not want to merely absorb abuse, I want to realize it is never really personal, it is always about the person giving the abuse and never about the person being abused. IF, and that is a big IF, if I am able to always offer it up to the Lord, to be free of defense mechanisms, to let go of any need of getting my emotional needs met in dysfunctional human relationships, to learn to seek the Lord’s will in all my interactions with others without feeling the need to shield myself…well, then He will have truly have done a miracle and made me into a living saint. I love stories of saints who endured abuse without resentment and never allowed the abuse to impact them at a deep level, because their identity was in their relationship with the Lord, and never a hint of ego. How does a person get there, though? And when time is of the essence, what can one do to get out of the way of the work that the Lord wants to do in one’s soul?
My mother’s health is not good, and she is already an older woman. I do not have all the time in the world to wait for a miracle, honestly. I would like to have the ability to have some limited communication while maintaining charitable and reasonable boundaries. Especially since, as the eldest daughter, it may someday fall to me to care for her in her last years.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’d say to look to the story of the Prodigal Son…that is how God does it. The Father was always scanning the horizon for his son, he was willing to overlook everything of the family’s that this son had squandered on himself in his selfishness, but the Father did not go to a foreign country to pull him out of the pig sty where he was starving himself. Think about what would have happened if he had!

Drawing a boundary and yet giving the freedom to violate the boundary is the route of the patient. Sometimes it means the loved one is going to “go off to a foreign country” for a long time. Sometimes it will mean seeing them squander what you’ve given them. Sometimes it will mean knowing that they (either literally or metaphorically) are going to bed cold and hungry while you are warm and well-fed. Still, there is no peace for anyone, including them, if the boundary is not kept in place, the boundary between how life operates in heaven and how life operates in hell.

Of course, there is going to be more leeway given to someone who is going to fail and have to repent a lot–70x7 times, as Peter was told–but if there is no desire for repentance, if there is no self-requirement to do the best one can do with the equipment one has, then the person who wants no boundaries on their own behavior is going to have the whole world to roam, except that they have nowhere to call home. The story of the Prodigal Son tells us that this is the way of a patient, compassionate, and all-loving God. I wouldn’t try to improve on that model.

I would add only one thing: If the family knows that they have a family member who is like a wolf in the world, that the person is placing other people in imminent danger, then the family ought to help law enforcement or compulsory mental health intervention services in every way that they can to keep the rest of the world protected. Otherwise, if that question is not on the table, it’s like the Lord described. You keep the door open, but you also keep the boundaries in place, for as long as it takes.

A sociopathic personality, BTW, is not necessarily a destructive personality. A person with no natural sense of empathy for others is not automatically a toxic person. There are sociopaths and borderline personalities who come to understand themselves and find a place for themselves in groups that operate in peace and mutual trust. It can happen. It is just that they are missing a major source of natural reinforcement for those behaviors, and have to lean far more on their intellect and will in order to become saints. Those who do live in a moral way may turn out in Heaven to have been the greatest saints of all, and may be given more consolations in eternity than anyone else. “Blessed are the poor (in spirit), for theirs is the Kingdom of God.” I don’t know what could be more impoverished in spirit than someone who feels nothing for anyone else, but who acts in the ways of love, anyway.

 

[mommamaree]

EasterJoy,

So, practically speaking, I can delineate my own boundaries (mind and will) and communicate with her from within my boundaries, but acknowledge to myself that it is likely she will violate those boundaries. When she does, then I should say clearly that is not acceptable to me, and then if it continues, I should remove myself from the conversation. Yes?
And I know that I should not personalize or internalize her boundary violations, but should see them for what they really are, an attempt at abusive or manipulative actions/words used to control me to get out of me what she wants.
And most of all, I should pray and keep watch. I should never give up as long as we both have breath, never despair. But I also should not pin all my hopes and dreams on things working out happily in this life.
Have I gotten it right, EasterJoy? I have been working very hard to learn about boundaries in a way that is consistent with Christian charity. Yet I also acknowledge that I will need to be very careful to protect my children, and be aware of my obligations to my niece, whom I love and who needs me. The emotional wellbeing of children are also on the line in this situation.

 

[mommamaree]

A sociopathic personality, BTW, is not necessarily a destructive personality. A person with no natural sense of empathy for others is not automatically a toxic person. There are sociopaths and borderline personalities who come to understand themselves and find a place for themselves in groups that operate in peace and mutual trust. It can happen. It is just that they are missing a major source of natural reinforcement for those behaviors, and have to lean far more on their intellect and will in order to become saints. Those who do live in a moral way may turn out in Heaven to have been the greatest saints of all, and may be given more consolations in eternity than anyone else. “Blessed are the poor (in spirit), for theirs is the Kingdom of God.” I don’t know what could be more impoverished in spirit than someone who feels nothing for anyone else, but who acts in the ways of love, anyway.

Thank you for that.

 

[WaitingForJesus]

Here is my story. I hope there is something here that can help you.

I was married to someone with a personality disorder. Evenually he became a threat to himself and me. I did not want to leave because I loved him and did not want to have a failed marriage (my pride). Basically everyone including the priest advised me to leave the situation. The Lord also made it clear to me that I should give up on the marital relationship, but that HE expected me to continue to pray for my ex-husband. And, in fact, we had to continue to have contact as we have a daughter. People with these disorders often have terrible feelings about themselves and face much rejection from others. I am glad the sitution forced me to have continued contact with him as it lets me still show some love and care for him although at a distance.

By leaving the situation, I was able to establish healthy boundaries. There would be periodic blowups, but because we were not in the same house, it was easier and I could recover more quickly. In the process, I also learned a lot more about the disorder and how not to take things personally. Although my ex-husband refused treatment, there was a point about six months ago, where he finally realized the thoughts he was having were not normal. He still refused psychological treatment, but began meeting with our priest. He has changed a great deal since then. In fact, he was received into the church at the Easter vigil this year. I continue to see improvement in him since he has been going to confession and receiving the Eucharist. I sometimes think that by leaving him I may have helped him.

My first suggestion is that you pray for your mother, especially that the Lord give her the grace of spiritual healing and that she be able to receive the sacraments. Also, I encourage you to discuss this with your priest. The only reason I was able to have peace about leaving was based on the priests words. You might also consider talking to a psychologist or psychiatrist about your mother’s behaviors to get their thoughts on what disorder she has. I spoke to a psychiatrist, and he told me my ex probably had a combination of borderline and narcissistic personality disorders. Although they can’t diagnose someone they haven’t treated, he pointed me to a book that suddenly made everything clear. It was called “Stop Walking on Eggshells” which helped me to understand. I had so much sympathy for my ex-husband after reading this. The book is very practical. It gives strategies to help establish and maintain good boundaries. If you could find something tailored to your mother’s disorder, it might make things easier for you.

I will pray for you. God bless you.

 

[WaitingForJesus]

I know you are not asking me, but let me offer my thoughts on this as I have some familiarity.

EasterJoy,

So, practically speaking, I can delineate my own boundaries (mind and will) and communicate with her from within my boundaries, but acknowledge to myself that it is likely she will violate those boundaries. When she does, then I should say clearly that is not acceptable to me, and then if it continues, I should remove myself from the conversation. Yes?

YES DO NOT ALLOW THE ABUSE TO CONTINUE. TELL HER THAT YOU MUST DISCONTINUE THE CONVERSATION. PHYSICALLY LEAVE IF YOU ARE IN HER PRESENCE.

And I know that I should not personalize or internalize her boundary violations, but should see them for what they really are, an attempt at abusive or manipulative actions/words used to control me to get out of me what she wants.
And most of all, I should pray and keep watch. I should never give up as long as we both have breath, never despair. But I also should not pin all my hopes and dreams on things working out happily in this life.
Have I gotten it right, EasterJoy?

YES PRAYER IS ESSENTIAL. THAT IS WHAT YOU CAN ALWAYS DO EVEN IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO STAY IN THE SITUATION. THINGS MAY NOT ALWAYS BE HAPPY. OFFER THOSE SUFFERINGS UP TO THE LORD.

I have been working very hard to learn about boundaries in a way that is consistent with Christian charity. Yet I also acknowledge that I will need to be very careful to protect my children, and be aware of my obligations to my niece, whom I love and who needs me. The emotional wellbeing of children are also on the line in this situation.

YES ALWAYS KEEP THE CHILDREN AS YOUR FIRST PRIORITY. MY DAUGHTER HAD MUCH TO DO WITH WHY I LEFT MY EX-HUSBAND. I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE STAYED HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR HER.

 

[EasterJoy]

EasterJoy,

So, practically speaking, I can delineate my own boundaries (mind and will) and communicate with her from within my boundaries, but acknowledge to myself that it is likely she will violate those boundaries. When she does, then I should say clearly that is not acceptable to me, and then if it continues, I should remove myself from the conversation. Yes?
And I know that I should not personalize or internalize her boundary violations, but should see them for what they really are, an attempt at abusive or manipulative actions/words used to control me to get out of me what she wants.
And most of all, I should pray and keep watch. I should never give up as long as we both have breath, never despair. But I also should not pin all my hopes and dreams on things working out happily in this life.
Have I gotten it right, EasterJoy? I have been working very hard to learn about boundaries in a way that is consistent with Christian charity. Yet I also acknowledge that I will need to be very careful to protect my children, and be aware of my obligations to my niece, whom I love and who needs me. The emotional wellbeing of children are also on the line in this situation.

I think you have it…and I think any time we are guided to act as God acts instead of according to our fallen inclinations, we are being molded into saints ourselves, whether there is suffering involved or not, but when we do it in spite of suffering, especially. It is the molding that makes saints, though, not the pain itself.

 

[Fairwinds]

For a emotionally healthy human being, loving one’s family members is the normal and natural way of things, correct? I am curious about when a healthy individual is closely related to a disturbed individual. The healthy individual is likely to have deep love for the disturbed individual, even if the disturbed individual is incapable of love and is possibly a dangerous or toxic person, isn’t that true?
When this happens, when the healthy individual is grieving because of making a tough decision to cease contact with the disturbed individual, and their feelings of love for this person become overwhelming, and the person becomes confused about their decision, what then can a healthy individual do? Does the fact that they love the disturbed individual mean that they should maintain contact of sorts? What can a healthy individual do when love compels them to do what prudence would forbid, namely, reconcile without any indication of a genuine desire to get treatment for severe personality disorder on the part of the disturbed individual? What can the healthy person do with that love, when they cannot give it directly to their disturbed loved one through word and deed? How can the healthy person not lose their head and do something imprudent and expose themselves to further abuse? What about when there exists a further complication of the disturbed individual being the guardian of an innocent minor child relative, with whom a relationship is both desired and necessary?
I know that these are many and challenging questions, and that I have spoken in generalities here. I did not know any other way to get to the heart of my troubles right now, except to start with these questions. I am willing to clarify anything that is not understood, and I can give supportive details as necessary. Please help with advice in this matter. Thank you very much.

I wouldn’t reconcile without a commitment to medical treatment – evaluation by a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker – proper medication, and especially a plan by those around him or her for intervening if and when he decides he no longer needs meds. only then reconcile. you don’t want to do this on your own or without professional advice. I believe an informed spiritual director would tell you no less. you’d be walking into a buzz saw without it. contact a group like this: National Alliance on Mental Illness and find a support group of people in the same situation as you are, they will give you practical advice and a shoulder to lean on by people who know.

prayer is a must but consider the shipwreck survivor who drowns because he’s praying too much and ignores the helicopter God sends him.

– voice of experience.

 

[EasterJoy]

I have run across someone who went on Dr. Phil after having authored “Confessions of a Sociopath”, but it is not clear whether this was a true sociopath, a narcissist looking for attention, or what. Martha Stout, author of “The Sociopath Next Door” believes that the best thing to do with a sociopath is to stay as far off their radar as possible. Part of her most defining mark of a sociopath, however, is not their lack of emotional empathy, but rather a person who gives themselves permission to deceive, and especially permission to deceive in order to manipulate, even when the manipulation does not seem to be directly self-serving. Her rule is that when you’re dealing with a “Three-Timer”–that is, someone who has deceived you on something important on more than three separate occasions–you should always consider their honesty suspect after that and avoid them accordingly. While it may be OK to allow a Three-Timer, sociopath or not, back into your life if they are amending themselves, I do think it is wise to always remember when someone has earned a reputation for deceit. That will always be a temptation for them, and it is not wise to ever forget that. Even if they are fully in your life, a healthy sense of suspicion is something that the habitual liar ought to accept as a matter of course, even after they have amended their lives.