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Georgia
Guest
If a politician votes to provide the funding, that politician is a moving part in the abortion machine. Voting for a politician you know will support funding for abortion is in some way enabling it.
Is it possible to vote democrat because you think they would do more against abortion?
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Carlan
Guest
The new health care laws will force insurance companys to drop their abortion coverage.Democrats in that sense will have made progress in lowering the number of abortions performed.
Remember men and women freely choose to kill their babes in the womb.
The government upholds the laws on the books, they do not force people to get abortions.
Both Reps and Dem’s should be doing more to eradicate the existing death law.
It has been in force now for almost 40years… and Republicans along with the Dems have done very little to change it. Much talk and very little action.
Women who have abortions freely choose to have them, and doctors who operate abortion mills freely choose to perform the killing. They will have to answer to God for their free choices. The only way to prevent abortions is by women choosing not to have them. We Pray!
Peace, Carlan
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estesbob
Guest
Actually the new health care law forces coverage for contraception, including the so called morning after pill and does not in anyway forbid coverage for abortion.
Yes men and women do freely choose to kill their children just as many Catholics freely choose to empower those who make it possible to do so . The idea that republcians have done little to limit abortion is specious-witness for inastance the clsoing of dozens of PP clinics in Texas becuase of the actions of the republcian Governor and legislature.
And those who empower elected officials who work to keep this evil legal are complicit in these deaths.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Is this true of all evils, or just of abortion? I am not talking about weighing abortion against any other evils. I am only asking if it is true as a general principle that those who elect officials who refuse to make some evil illegal are complicit in the fruits of that evil. And if this principle does apply to only certain evils, which ones are they?
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Carlan
Guest
I do believe we should all be more discerning and consider all evil attached to the voting process . The Church does not tell us to be one issue voters. And yet I find myself ,because of the sponsoring evil on both sides, not wanting to perform my civic duty. Peace, Carlan
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estesbob
Guest
This is a bit of a distortion of what the Church actually teaches. . . It is true that we are not told we have to vote for a candidate due to theirsupport of the single issue but their support of an intrinsic evil, like abortion or euthanasia, can disqualify him from receiving the Catholics vote regardless of how well they may be on the “other” issues.
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estesbob
Guest
. This would be true what the Church identifies as intrinsic evils, the best example being abortion and euthanasia
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
So does that mean non-intrinsic evils carry no such burden of complicity? Recall that the question was what sort of evil, if not actively opposed by an elected official, makes all those who voted for him complicit in the fruits of that evil. Suppose for instance that an elected official campaigns on the platform of eliminating all speed restrictions on residential streets. Speeding is not an intrinsic evil. But now with no law restricting the speed on residential streets, the accident rate goes way up and many kids are killed in car accidents. Is it accurate to say that those who voted for this guy are not complicit in the deaths of those children?
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estesbob
Guest
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sw85
Guest
The logic is unsound. The welfare state has never been as vast as it is today yet abortions remain intolerably high.Is it possible to vote democrat if you think they would help lower abortions?
I’m wondering since I see a lot of people voting democrat but at the same time some say that such a vote is a mortal sin. But if it were so, I doubt that people would continue something as controllable as voting so…
I’d recommend you seriously think it through before committing to such an act – and be prepared to explain your vote, if you decide to cast it, to God Himself and all the victims of abortion.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
In response to my question:
So we have at least one non-intrinsic evil for which voters may be complicit when voting for a candidate who refuses to oppose that evil. So perhaps this is true of every kind of evil? (Re: my original question in post #44).
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estesbob
Guest
L
Listener
Guest
It is kind of hard to explain my way of thinking, but here goes. As part of Obama’s new health insurance laws, people under the age of 26 are now allowed to be on their parent’s medical insurance policy.
If a young woman under 26 happens to get pregnant, I think it is wonderful that she has the right to be on her parent’s medical insurance policy. This means that she can have medical insurance coverage and will have insurance to cover her prenatal care.
Of course, there are other ways this woman could get medical insurance, such as through her college or through her employer. But let’s say that she’s not a student and that she’s unemployed and broke.
To my way of thinking, a young woman who is unemployed and broke might be tempted to have an abortion. However, if she knows that at least she has some medical insurance, she might decide to have the baby.
Meanwhile, the “pro-life” Republicans want to do away with “Obama Care,” and they even want to do away with Social Security and Medicare!
I really don’t think they are “pro-life” at all, so why should I vote for them?
If a young woman under 26 happens to get pregnant, I think it is wonderful that she has the right to be on her parent’s medical insurance policy. This means that she can have medical insurance coverage and will have insurance to cover her prenatal care.
Of course, there are other ways this woman could get medical insurance, such as through her college or through her employer. But let’s say that she’s not a student and that she’s unemployed and broke.
To my way of thinking, a young woman who is unemployed and broke might be tempted to have an abortion. However, if she knows that at least she has some medical insurance, she might decide to have the baby.
Meanwhile, the “pro-life” Republicans want to do away with “Obama Care,” and they even want to do away with Social Security and Medicare!
I really don’t think they are “pro-life” at all, so why should I vote for them?
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estesbob
Guest
What good is health insurance for those denied the right to life. As a cradle Catholic you should know no issue or combination of issues trumps abortion
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Example, please?
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colmywaykurtz
Guest
I agree. And for the record, I refuse to call it “Obama Care.” Its proper name is the Patient Protection and Care Act. PPACA for short.
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estesbob
Guest
So a canidate supporting a bill the Church opposed allows a Catholic to vote for a pro-abortion Catholic.? The mental gymnsatics engaged in by pro-abortion Catholics to try and rationalize their votes is a terrible thing to behold.
As Archibishop Chaput put it " for 35 years I’ve watched prominent “pro-choice” Catholics justify themselves with the kind of moral and verbal gymnastics that should qualify as an Olympic event. All they’ve really done is capitulate to Roe v. Wade."
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Why is it that this principle is applied only with regard to voting, when there are so many other ways in which it might also be applied?
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estesbob
Guest
There aren’t so many other ways to apply it-except by those trying to defend the indefensible
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formerlysure
Guest
the truth, as others have pointed out, is that the Democratic party is pro-abortion, pro- gay marriage. They are also of the mindset that social wellfare programs are the sole manner for supporting people who live in poverty. It is just a fact that the republican party is more in step with Catholic teaching.
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