Is it proper to go up for a blessing when not receiving Communion?

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Aramis said:
Rev. Fr. David:

The problem is that Cardial Arinze HAS said publicly that, while not per se approved, it falls to the bishop. He has not said this ex cathedra, but has said it in more than one discussion, and in one case, as an authoritative response to an informal query.

He has explicitly stated repeatedly that that which is neither demanded nor prohibited by Canon Law, the Instructions from the Pope and the Sacred Congregations, and the approved liturgical texts, and the various answers to dubia, is thus left to the bishop.

Moreover, his answer to the question of not permitting children in the communion line indicates not being in favor of it, but also not wanting to prohibit it where it is becoming custom.
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So, in other words, he did not actually say it.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Actually, it’s up to the Church to say that. The Church has never said that it’s up to the local bishop to decide to add this to the Mass. I’m not “condemning” the practice, I’m simply stating the fact that it is not part of the Mass, and has not been approved by the Church as part of the Mass. It is not up to individual persons or communities to add parts to the Mass on their own initiative, regardless of what their motivation might be. We see far too many examples of people adding things to the Mass and falsely claiming that the Church approves of them. If the Church approves of it, why has the Church never said this?
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Actually you are wrong.

The Church has elected to leave the ultimate decision with local bishops as evidenced by the Cardinal’s comments.
 
No wonder Catholic gets upset. Cardinal Arinze has said the Church has elected to say yes or no, but to leave it up to the local ordinary. We even have a video.

Yet here we are 600 posts later with some people still playing games.

Scary.
 
Stewmont said:
No wonder Catholic gets upset. Cardinal Arinze has said the Church has elected to say yes or no, but to leave it up to the local ordinary. We even have a video.

Yet here we are 600 posts later with some people still playing games.

Scary.
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First of all, the Prefect was only referring to blessings involving children. Furthermore, YouTube footage is not the same as written documentation. In other words, just because something airs on YouTube that doesn’t mean that it becomes legitimized.

Francis Cardinal Arinze has made statements regrding liturgical dance. These are backed up with documentation from the Holy See that goes back to 1975. Even the documents of the Holy See, specifically the one issued in 1997 by the Congregation for Clergy (which also has the signatures of the Prefects for the
Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith -the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger- and th Congregation for Divine Worship and the Disicpline of the Sacraments) specifically note that EMHCs do not have any authority to bless or perform a function similar to what the celebrant does.
 
It is sad when catholics rely on You Tube as a citation to bolster their position on a topic.

I always considered catholics to be the most educated of all christians.

Untill I saw the outcome of the vote, and we can add this to it now.
 
notsmart said:
It is sad when catholics rely on You Tube as a citation to bolster their position on a topic.

I always considered catholics to be the most educated of all christians.

Untill I saw the outcome of the vote, and we can add this to it now.
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Actually I relied on videoed comments from the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. A pretty good source and just about the best you’re going to get because the Church is not about to release a memo saying they left this choice to local bishops. For the great majority of the world it’s an absolute non-starter.

The Church decided to leave this matter up to local bishops (and not just in the case of kids.) I suppose they could document that somewhere and then do a press release. But should they? For each and every question that might be brought up? No way.

As Catholics we are to rely on our bishops, not out own personal interpretations of the GIRM and RS. Whatever our local bishops say in this case goes. Yet some feel they know better then the Church based on outrageous interpretations of Church documents. I’d not sure the Church needs a memo for the file for such people.
 
Stewmont,
You reminded me of something. I think since I know better than the bishops and the Cardinals for sure, not to mention the Holy Father, that the Church should issue a “Sacraments Card” to expedite receiving licitly. Baptism, Confirmation, Reconciliation, Communion, Annointing of the Sick, Marriage, Ordination.

Just swipe the care and voila… the priests can see that you are okay to receive communion since you’ve been to mass and made your confession. It’s easy, it’s simple it’s the all in one “Sacraments Card” … don’t leave home without it.

I told this to father one day and with a stupid grin he looked at me and said rather quickly, but then that would begin a whole new kind of sin. Catholic Identity Theft.:rolleyes:

You know, I bet there are people out there that would condone this. It’s almost already there with the envelopes. Where is that in the bible we say? Where is that in Sacred Tradition? Oh well. Going with the flow because I’m not smarter than a priest and bishop that has numerous degrees in Theology, not to mention authority. It’s a good thing my bishop doesn’t tell us to wear a tu tu. Would know where that would bring us. So I just listen to my bishop. I never rub someone with a thumb. Since I don’t sin I just receive and don’t worry about it…okay that’s a little too much. Sorry. This is getting out of hand. I can’t control my fingers anymore. What’s happening to me…ooohhhh… False alarm, it’s just my toddler and school grade kids driving me crazy. Gotta go. Let me know when ya’ll figure this out. I’d like to write a letter to the Pope once we figure it out.😉
 
Stewmont said:
Actually I relied on videoed comments from the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. A pretty good source and just about the best you’re going to get because the Church is not about to release a memo saying they left this choice to local bishops. For the great majority of the world it’s an absolute non-starter.

The Church decided to leave this matter up to local bishops (and not just in the case of kids.) I suppose they could document that somewhere and then do a press release. But should they? For each and every question that might be brought up? No way.

As Catholics we are to rely on our bishops, not out own personal interpretations of the GIRM and RS. Whatever our local bishops say in this case goes. Yet some feel they know better then the Church based on outrageous interpretations of Church documents. I’d not sure the Church needs a memo for the file for such people.
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However, he was referring only to children, not to anyone else. Furthermore, I think that a prudent bishop would look at all of the factors including the fact that there is no precedent for this kind of thing. Certainly there wasn’t one in the early Church nor in any of the Church’s liturgical Traditions. None of this happened until about less than 20 years ago. This was not an organic development. It was a well-meaning, but misguided gesture that someone came up with to give a mistaken notion of inclusivity.

What better way to figure this out than to remember the invitation that the celebrant extends after the Agnus Dei: Behold the Lamb of God, Behold He who takes away the sin of the world. Happy are those who are called to His Supper.

We are called to partake of the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. We are called to eat the Lamb’s living body and drink His living blood. When we go to a wedding, we don’t just look at the food. We eat it. We don’t just look at the Dr. Pepper, the champagne and the wine. We drink them. The same prinicple applies here, too.

Furthermore, Francis Cardinal Arinze was speaking off the cuff on this one. It is different from his comments regarding Liturgical Dance because the Church has already spoken out on this issue and on the issue of kneeling before during and after the reception of Holy Communion. There is documentation on these issues. None exists for this particular one, as even he admitted. Furthermore, this is not a universal practice, as he also observed, having confiined it to just our country and maybe the UK.
 
benedictgal said:
However, he was referring only to children, not to anyone else…
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No he didn’t. I watched the video and it is crystal-clear – to anyone.

There have been a couple of threads on this issue. You have clearly been shown to be mistaken more than once by more than one person yet you do not acknowledge it. It really doesn’t matter how much evidence is presented because you will not admit to being wrong. 🤷

Your excuse this time is that his comments only apply to kids when they clearly do not. :nope:

I have every confidence that if a CA moderator/experts sifted through the different threads on this subject that they would find just that – that you are unwilling to concede that you are wrong despite given the videoed testimony of a bona-fide expert – in this case Cardinal Arinze.

In the end you may rest assured that I will follow the comments of the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments 100% of the time over your own. I suspect this is true for just about everyone else who has contributed to this thread.
 
Stewmont said:
No he didn’t. I watched the video and it is crystal-clear – to anyone.

There have been a couple of threads on this issue. You have clearly been shown to be mistaken more than once by more than one person yet you do not acknowledge it. It really doesn’t matter how much evidence is presented because you will not admit to being wrong. 🤷

Your excuse this time is that his comments only apply to kids when they clearly do not. :nope:

I have every confidence that if a CA moderator/experts sifted through the different threads on this subject that they would find just that – that you are unwilling to concede that you are wrong despite given the videoed testimony of a bona-fide expert – in this case Cardinal Arinze.

In the end you may rest assured that I will follow the comments of the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments 100% of the time over your own. I suspect this is true for just about everyone else who has contributed to this thread.
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Actually, I maintain what I have said in this thread and in others. The fact remains that there is no historical nor liturgical Traditional precedent for this sort of thing. Furthermore, several pages back in this thread Aramis posted the transcript to what Cardinal Arinze said. He was making those remarks towards the practice of blessing children.

I find it rather interesting that proponents of this issue have yet to comment on the invitation that the celebrant extends when he says, “Happy are they who are called to his supper.” The rubrics then call for properly disposed Catholics to come forward to receive Holy Communion. We are invited to partake of the Body and Blood of the Living God, not to receive a blessing.

The only time that the blessing is imparted is at the end of Mass. Furthermore, no written document has been issued by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments instructing the local Ordinary as to how to handle this, especially since this practice was never envisioned by the Second Vatican Council. You cannot base yourself on something that was posted on YouTube.
 
I have seen enough, especially the link to forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4522912&postcount=7
Click on the thumbnail picture and carefully read the letter.

I hope to remember not go up for a blessing.

Normally when I attend Mass I am singing in the choir and I do not go forward to receive a blessing from an EMHC because I worry I may cause them to do something incorrect (bless me with the host).

Communion lines are long enough as it is:
  • that the church has decided to not include kneeling
  • that we have EMHCs
  • some receive in their hands
My going up to receive a blessing also contributes to the line length. Sometimes I’ve gone up only because it seemed the easier way to let people get around me. But I am normally in the choir and not too much in the way. 98% of the time our choir receives from an EMHC.

It seems to me that blessing a small child in its mother’s arms while the mother receives Holy Communion is not a problem and I hope that can continue. But adults who are not “Catholics in good standing” (full communion with the Church) is another matter.

We are able to receive a blessing at the end of Mass. And aside from that we participate in singing (whether in the choir or the congregation) and in prayer and in other ways during the Mass. It is much better than not coming to Mass at all. And the Church’s intent is for our best good – the good of us all and the good of us each individually.

Please pray for me. I am not perfect and I suppose I may go up a few more times perhaps, especially if I forget. But lately I have stuck to my seat pretty good.

Thank you,

jmm08
 
JimG said:
It seems ironic that we make catechumens leave after the homily;
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You do? I’m a catechumen and no one has yet asked me to leave after the homily… is that everywhere? Am I doing it wrong? Where would I go? :o

As for the sacraments, I go up for a blessing at every Mass during the Eucharist. It was suggested that I do so (By someone, I’m not even sure who now! Probably a few someones…) and I have seen young children in my church do so also (though admittedly no adults, but I honestly haven’t been watching very closely either!). My RCIA class is conducted by the Deacon and it seems to me like a nice way for the Priest to get to know my face, because I don’t have too many opportunities as of yet to interact with him. Again, am I doing it wrong?

And if, as a catechumen, I’m supposed to leave after the homily, then I wouldn’t get blessed either way unless I specifically asked for a blessing, would I? I heard the call to this faith very clearly, but I remain entirely unclear on some of the intricacies of the liturgy (and never know if I’m using the right words to describe what I mean).

Honestly, I came here to look for answers and to calm my anxiety about all the details of ritual and doctrine (etc.) as they relate to my conversion and I am beginning to see that I’m only making it worse. Argh.
 
Raqui said:
You do? I’m a catechumen and no one has yet asked me to leave after the homily… is that everywhere? Am I doing it wrong? Where would I go? :o

As for the sacraments, I go up for a blessing at every Mass during the Eucharist. It was suggested that I do so (By someone, I’m not even sure who now! Probably a few someones…) and I have seen young children in my church do so also (though admittedly no adults, but I honestly haven’t been watching very closely either!). My RCIA class is conducted by the Deacon and it seems to me like a nice way for the Priest to get to know my face, because I don’t have too many opportunities as of yet to interact with him. Again, am I doing it wrong?

And if, as a catechumen, I’m supposed to leave after the homily, then I wouldn’t get blessed either way unless I specifically asked for a blessing, would I? I heard the call to this faith very clearly, but I remain entirely unclear on some of the intricacies of the liturgy (and never know if I’m using the right words to describe what I mean).

Honestly, I came here to look for answers and to calm my anxiety about all the details of ritual and doctrine (etc.) as they relate to my conversion and I am beginning to see that I’m only making it worse. Argh.
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Raqui,
The “dismissal of the catechumens” has a historical and spiritual significance. In the early Church, the catechumens stayed for the “teaching” part of the Mass–the Liturgy of the Word as we now call it. The Liturgy of the Eucharist (or Mass of the Faithful) was reserved exclusively to the initiated. Back then, the Mass was truly an unknown mystery to anyone who did not attend it. They didn’t have published books, videos, or Mass on TV, so only initiated Christians even knew what happened in the Eucharistic celebration. Part of their initiation was that at the Easter Vigil, they were introduced to this second half of the Mass–quite literally introduced to it for the first time.

Nowadays, things are different of course. The dismissal of the catechumens is still an option. The purpose is for the catechumens to take part in additional instruction about the faith at that time. While this isn’t an absolute, in general if a parish is large enough to have proper “classes” so that the catechumens are truly doing something meaningful by leaving, you are more likely to see it happen. Either way (dismissing or not) is proper. It’s at the pastor’s discretion, although the preference certainly is to do it if it can truly be something meaningful and constructive. Since your catechist is the deacon, it might not be practical in your own parish for the deacon to leave the Mass to conduct more teaching. You’re not doing it wrong by staying.

As to the other question, the only people who should be going forward in the Communion line are those who are actually receiving Communion (whether those not receiving are Catholics or not makes no difference). It’s not the time to do blessings, or any other ritual or prayers. The person who told you to do this was giving you wrong information.
 
Raqui said:
You do? I’m a catechumen and no one has yet asked me to leave after the homily… is that everywhere? Am I doing it wrong? Where would I go? :o

As for the sacraments, I go up for a blessing at every Mass during the Eucharist. It was suggested that I do so (By someone, I’m not even sure who now! Probably a few someones…) and I have seen young children in my church do so also (though admittedly no adults, but I honestly haven’t been watching very closely either!). My RCIA class is conducted by the Deacon and it seems to me like a nice way for the Priest to get to know my face, because I don’t have too many opportunities as of yet to interact with him. Again, am I doing it wrong?

And if, as a catechumen, I’m supposed to leave after the homily, then I wouldn’t get blessed either way unless I specifically asked for a blessing, would I? I heard the call to this faith very clearly, but I remain entirely unclear on some of the intricacies of the liturgy (and never know if I’m using the right words to describe what I mean).

Honestly, I came here to look for answers and to calm my anxiety about all the details of ritual and doctrine (etc.) as they relate to my conversion and I am beginning to see that I’m only making it worse. Argh.
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Please don’t fret. It is not your fault. The ones who are misleading, although with the best of intentions, are culpable, not you.

Actually, the issue of the blessing should not happen. I would encourage you to read the link that Fr. David posted in this thread. Two of our forum members wrote to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments regarding the issue of receiving a blessing in lieu of receiving Holy Communion.

The response says that although the Congregation is attentively studying the issue, they’ve come up with some observations:
The liturgical blessing of the Holy Mass is properly given to each and all at the conclusion of the Mass, just a few moments subsequent to the distribution of Holy Communion.
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…Furthermore, the laying on of hands-which has its own sacramental significance, inappropriate here-by those distributing Holy Communion in substitution for its reception, is to be explicitly discouraged.
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In a similar way, for others who are not to be admitted to Holy Communion under the norm of law, the Church’s discipline has already made clear that they should not receive Holy Communion nor receive a blessing.
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Please do not think that I am trying to be uncharitable. Again, the fault is not yours. The problems lies with well-intentioned souls who should not give or impart what they do not have the authority to do. Ultimately, this practice, which should not be allowed, has done more harm than good by confusing the faithful.
 
Is it valid that an Extraordinary minister of the Eucharist blesses my child when I receive the host from them. While I try always to receive from a priest it is not possible sometimes. And a few the Extraordinary ministers male and female will bless my children. I’m really not comfortable with this because it seems to be another step in blurring the lines between priests and the laity but I wasn’t sure what the story is.

thanks
jbelokur
 
jbelokur said:
Is it valid that an Extraordinary minister of the Eucharist blesses my child when I receive the host from them. While I try always to receive from a priest it is not possible sometimes. And a few the Extraordinary ministers male and female will bless my children. I’m really not comfortable with this because it seems to be another step in blurring the lines between priests and the laity but I wasn’t sure what the story is.

thanks
jbelokur
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It depends what you mean by blessing. I say to my wife and daughter God bless you.
What did the EMHC actually say and do?
 
They cross the forehead of my child and say I bless you in the Name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

I too bless my children daily but to me especially in that setting there is a difference qualitatively speaking.
 
I am posting this just as a regular Catholic,not an expert.

At my parish I have never seen a Eucharistic Minister bless a child or anyone for that matter.As a Catholic I would except a blessing only from a priest or a deacon.However I would not be surprised if this kind of thing happens nor would I be surprised if this was allowed by the church.

STE
 
An EME cannot validly “bless” someone who does not receive. The EME can and should, however simply say God Bless You. The EME does not have a “loaded gun” as does the Priest.
 
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