Is it really Mortal Sin if

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Here’s a question that I haven’t heard a good answer to yet:

If mortal sin requires full knowledge of the gravity and mortality of the sin, then is something a mortal sin if I don’t honestly believe it is a mortal sin?

Take missing Mass for instance.

If I don’t really believe that missing one Mass is a mortal sin, isn’t it true that I don’t understand the gravity and mortality of the sin, which is a requisite for it being mortal in the first place? A self-fulfilling prophesy?

What do you think?

Peace,
javelin
 
Jav,

This one is too easy. You are obliged to have an informed conscience. Since this particular issue does not admit of much nuance: you’re able bodied, you’re not caring for infants, elders, or invalids, there’s a church down the road that you can get to . . . there is no excuse for missing Mass on Sunday and yes, you need to repent and confess before receiving Holy Communion.

How hard is that?
 
My question would be: Do you know the Ten Commandments?

In Him,

Robin L. in TX
 
It depends on whether one is merely “electing” to disbelieve it is a sin, or is genuinely ignorant of its sinfulness. If one knows better and has been informed, then he is guilty of mortal sin if he misses Sunday (or if not Sunday, then Saturday vigil) Mass without truly extenuating circumstances, such as caring for a sick loved one, sickness of self, etc…

That takes care of the commission aspect you have asked about.

Now about the sin itself: the sin doesn’t change its nature. Missing Mass is grave matter, so it is mortal sin. The act of missing it without good reason is inherently grave and sinful. Nothing changes that.

If a farmer goes into a field to plant soybeans, but the seed bag was mislabeled and he winds up with a field full of rye – he is not responsible for the field filling with rye, but it is still rye. Next time, he will be careful to plant the right thing.
 
Remember, the question isn’t, “is it sinful if I don’t think it is”. The question is “is it MORTALLY sinful if I don’t think it is”.

Any action that would be mortally sinful, if not mortal because of some circumstance (compulsion to act, for example), will still be sinful, just not mortally sinful.

I don’t think that simply saying “eveyone must know exactly what is mortal and what is not” is realistic, or sufficient. Most people can’t just flip a switch in their heads that says “Ok, I believe this now”. It often takes time, and circumstances can make it take LOTS of time.

Take abortion caused by abortifacient birth control use. There are many Christian people, both Catholics and non-Catholics, who use artificial birth control not knowing that they are aborting children. Abortion is obviously mortally sinful. Yet, these people don’t really know and understand what they are doing. Are they all going to hell? Surely, at judgement time, they will need to account for those sins of omission and ignorance, but destined for Hell? You really think so? If not Hell, then their ignorance must lower their culpability below the level of mortality.

Peace,
javelin
 
It’s true that mortal sin requires full knowledge of the gravity of the action, as well as full consent of the will.

Yet, it seems to me that many of us bend over backwards to rely on those factors as excuses for actions or omissions that we know to be wrong. I would try not to get into the habit of presuming upon the mercy of God.

Jesus invites us to be present at his Last Supper and at His redeeming sacrifice on Calvary every Sunday. These are the events of our salvation. Are we to reply to Him, no thanks, I just don’t see it as a big deal.?
 
Lets take it just a tad further. What of the individual who chooses (loves) activities that make going to Mass impossible a handful of times a year? Such as, mountain climbers, offshore fisherman 🙂 , someone who travels to remote parts of the world…many more I am sure.

I’d be interested to see opinions on this. Should one give up his/her secular love and passion because, say 3-4 times a years it makes it physcially impossible to make Mass??

Or, as I chose to think, Jesus understands us craving to enjoy our Father in Heaven’s beautiful creation.
 
I also wonder about the status of

Being in “Mortal Sin”

Suppossedly we lose our Sanctifying Grace.
Which means a straight ticket to Hell, if we die without repentance.

It also means a cut off of Charity. Does this mean that we are no longer able to commit Acts of Mercy ?

It just doesn’t seem justified that being lazy on a Sunday morning every once in a while should earn us an express ticket to Hell and extinguishing of Charity within us.

Obligation - Yes
Sinful - Yes

I just have difficulty with the idea of missing Weekly liturgy as “Mortal” in and of itself.
Most of the other “Mortal Sins” are intrinsicaly evil by natural law.

I can however see how it coud lead to many other things.
thus
I nonetheless “OBEY” despite my difficulties.

I miss Mass only when my conscience dictates a grave reason not to.
– and/or I attend the next possible liturgy confess & repent.

God Bless

todd
 
If you’re mountain climbing and there is no Mass available, there is no obligation. But sleep-in laziness is not an excuse!

The lengths to which the Jewish people went to keep the Sabbath holy, we might consider extreme. All that’s asked of us is one hour on a Saturday evening or Sunday morning.
 
You have been told, explicitly, I might add, that missing Mass is a mortal sin. It does not matter “what you think” about it. That does not change anything.

Therefore, it is a mortal sin for you to miss Mass for no good reason - no matter what you think - Period! Sorry!
 
Kind of reminds me of being in court. If the judge warns you that if you speak out of turn or show disrespect to the court you will be held in contempt of court, you’d better belive him! Neither is it a small matter to show contempt for the Lord’s Day.
 
In the 1700s the Austrian emperor instituted a reform in the geographic division of parishes in order to cut down the amount of time people had to spend traveling to Mass on Sunday. The cap on travel time was 3 hours one way. In many places that meant hiking through the mountains. That gives some perspective when we think of not having Mass “available.”
 
Andreas Hofer:
In the 1700s the Austrian emperor instituted a reform in the geographic division of parishes in order to cut down the amount of time people had to spend traveling to Mass on Sunday. The cap on travel time was 3 hours one way. In many places that meant hiking through the mountains. That gives some perspective when we think of not having Mass “available.”
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I think I’ll listen to the Fransican Friar who expressed understanding.

I don’t know, seems to me Jesus said, “Love one another as I have loved you”. Not “Obey the rules or in thie fire with you dude”. Sometimes I think we miss the point entirely.

This is all about love, not who obeys the rules the best wins.
 
Just gotta something off my chest. Hope it doesn’t offend anyone.

Less then two years ago my life was a mess, admittedly, now.

It wasn’t until I read C.S.Lewis Mere Chrstianity that I became aware my life was directed by my pride.

I love the that man who went to see the Lord in November of 1963.

Since then I have learned a great deal about our beloved Faith and about our beloved Lord and Savior. When I go to Saint Anthony’s Shrine in the city where I work, and I talk with some of the true saints, the Fransican Friars that reside there, i invariaby walk away feeling not only their love and thier understanding, warmth and reassurace. I also feel Jesus and His Mother’s love too.

God**, **as I understand it, IS Love. I don’t know that we convey that as well as He’d wish sometime.

I went from sinning every moment of the day, to loving our Lord with all my heart and soul. Some here would seem to wish to tell me I’m going to burn because I maybe haven’t quite yet come to the point they are at with respect to the devotion they may exhibit.

Maybe I am a theological idiot but I choose to believe (I know that term “choose to believe” has already offended someone here so I aopologize for offending you) that tremendous progress towards love, counts for something in the eyes of our Lord. I simply have to beleive that!

Is it all or nothing? Didn’t Peter express doubt? Did He come here for the saints only, or the sinners, like me too?
 
It was one of the saints (can’t remember which one right now) who always prayed “Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief.”
 
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DianJo:
You have been told, explicitly, I might add, that missing Mass is a mortal sin. It does not matter “what you think” about it. That does not change anything.

Therefore, it is a mortal sin for you to miss Mass for no good reason - no matter what you think - Period! Sorry!
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Oh please ! This is a forum for discussion.

The Church doesn’t just make this stuff up. It has reasons for declaring things Mortal Sin.
  • Keep holy the sabbath.
    – OK but it doesn’t say - “Go to Church” or “Go to Mass” or “Attend a liturgy” etc.
  • Christian obligation - “Whatever is held Loose/Bound…”
    – OK but why is the failure a Mortal Offense ?
    – Is it intrinsicly evil ?
    – Is it gravely disordered ?
Mortal sin must
  • Be willful - OK you get me on this one
  • Be aware of that it is a sin - OK you got me on this, too.
  • Be of a grave or serious nature
  • How is missing a Sunday liturgy a grave/serious matter to the point of Mortality?
Furthermore, I have yet to hear how Missing Sunday liturgy
  • Destroys Charity ?
  • Separates us from Sanctifying Grace ?
thanks

todd
 
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Mijoy2:
Just gotta something off my chest. Hope it doesn’t offend anyone. …

God**, **as I understand it, IS Love. I don’t know that we convey that as well as He’d wish sometime. …

Maybe I am a theological idiot but I choose to believe (I know that term “choose to believe” has already offended someone here so I aopologize for offending you) that tremendous progress towards love, counts for something in the eyes of our Lord. I simply have to beleive that!

Is it all or nothing? Didn’t Peter express doubt? Did He come here for the saints only, or the sinners, like me too?
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Yes, God is love. But, we seems to have a really dumb idea of what love is. Love wants for us what is best for us. What is best for us is to willing and lovingly submit to God’s Commands - and He commands us to obey His Church.

Besides, we seem to totally forget that God is also JUST. If we wilfully disobey His Commands, we are setting ourselves above Him. He gave us the Commandment - Remember to keep holy the Sabbath Day. His Church told us that our Sabbath Day is the Day of the Lord’s Resurrection, and how we are to keep it holy is to go to Mass.

We wilfully disobey this, we are comitting mortal sin. It’s as simple as that. If we love, we obey. We need to stop saying “I think” or “I feel” or “why should I?” This is our selfishness and our pride getting in the way.
 
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javelin:
Here’s a question that I haven’t heard a good answer to yet:

If mortal sin requires full knowledge of the gravity and mortality of the sin, then is something a mortal sin if I don’t honestly believe it is a mortal sin?

What do you think?

Peace,
javelin
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Yes. it is still a sin and objectively so. What changes is not the nature of the sin but your level of culpability. It has nothing to do with what you belive but with what you know. You KNOW the Church says that missing Mass is a sin therefore it is a sin whether you believe it or not. And you are fully culpable for that sin because you are fully informed.
 
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uncleauberon:
  • Keep holy the sabbath.
    – OK but it doesn’t say - “Go to Church” or “Go to Mass” or “Attend a liturgy” etc.
  • Christian obligation - “Whatever is held Loose/Bound…”
    – OK but why is the failure a Mortal Offense ?
    – Is it intrinsicly evil ?
    – Is it gravely disordered ?
Mortal sin must
  • Be willful - OK you get me on this one
  • Be aware of that it is a sin - OK you got me on this, too.
  • Be of a grave or serious nature
  • How is missing a Sunday liturgy a grave/serious matter to the point of Mortality?
Furthermore, I have yet to hear how Missing Sunday liturgy
  • Destroys Charity ?
  • Separates us from Sanctifying Grace ?
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Todd,

Willfully missing Mass on Sunday destroys Charity and separates us from Sanctifying Grace, because we are making the conscious choice not to pray, worship and praise our God publicly with other faithful. The Catholic Church is not a private religion it is a liturgical faith (there is historical evidence of the liturgical nature of the Catholic Church that begins in the Acts of the Apostles) where the joining of the faithful in prayer, worship and praise is necessary. Openly and knowingly refusing to give God his due is intrinsically evil and gravely disordered. If we cannot love God enough to dedicate an hour to an hour and a half once a week (this is less than 1 percent of our week) to God alone plus travel time we are not going to love others enough to give of ourselves selflessly. We cannot give the ultimate in Charity if we cannot give a small amount of time each week (one percent of each week) to Our Lord and Savior who not only died on the Cross for us, but gave us His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity through the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. We are given graces through receiving The Body and Blood of Christ each week and in a world where temptation abounds we need to take advantage of all the graces we are given instead of biting the hand that feeds us and turning our back on Jesus. We should be craving to receive the Body and Blood of Christ on a weekly basis if not on a daily basis especially when we know the graces we are given through the Sacrament.
 
Joan M:
Yes, God is love. But, we seems to have a really dumb idea of what love is. Love wants for us what is best for us. What is best for us is to willing and lovingly submit to God’s Commands - and He commands us to obey His Church.

Besides, we seem to totally forget that God is also JUST. If we wilfully disobey His Commands, we are setting ourselves above Him. He gave us the Commandment - Remember to keep holy the Sabbath Day. His Church told us that our Sabbath Day is the Day of the Lord’s Resurrection, and how we are to keep it holy is to go to Mass.

We wilfully disobey this, we are comitting mortal sin. It’s as simple as that. If we love, we obey. We need to stop saying “I think” or “I feel” or “why should I?” This is our selfishness and our pride getting in the way.
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I fully understand Joan. My particular point, though, maybe more acedemic. The question is one of my being 50 - 100 miles offshore and being offshore all weekend. Of course, if I were retired or indepentantly wealthy I’d be able to avoid this trip encompassing a Sunday. This, also, is not something that is habitual, it’s a few times a year ordeal. I can usually either get back in time on Sunday or leave after MAss on Saturday night. But a trip out to the continental shelf or other offshore fishing grounds is often a 36 - 48 hour trip. I likened it to a trip (vacation) to some part of the world that did not celebrate Mass. There is no way to get to a service in this situation. So the question comes up, should one never take a vacation somewhere where going to Sunday service is impossible? Are all (if any) of the Catholic contestants in the TV show Survivior in mortal sin? Or any other example you may be able to think about. How about an Atctic adventure, or a trip to some remote country in Africa? Or an attempt to Hikd the Appalacian trail? Are all of these things forbidden?

One who has no such passion or who’s every Sunday is pretty much a carbon copy of every other Sunday may not be very understanding of this. I am not suggesting for a moment, that I do not wish to go to Mass. I am saying that I don’t feel the Church commands my selling the boat I spent my life saving for and my life dreaming about, because of the very rare event that I may miss a Sunday service. Esspecially where I’d love to enhance my devotion for the rest of the week because of the missed service.

The Priests I have expressed this concern to overwhelming and without reservation understand and have provided me comfort.

It’s a matter of interpretation of the joint doctrine of 1) missing mass being a sin, and 2) definition of Mortal sin.

Anyway I think this has been beaten to death. Funny how when I was drinking beer all day Sunday and didn’t give a thought to Mass, nobody was telling me I was subjecting myself to Hell. I don’t get that feeling when I speak to clergy, however from time to time I do get it in these forums, saddly.
 
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