Is it really "natural"...To stop masturbating?

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I’m replying to the person right above me, where he/she mentioned waiting until marriage for sex.

Well guess what? I’m gay, and the church just happens to condemn that too.

So I guess I’m supposed to never do anything, live alone, and stay indoors and watch SpongeBob all my life. Sounds grrrreat.

Yes, except if you don’t get to use it at all. Ever. So think about that.
As someone else said, the Church does NOT condemn being gay. It condemns homosexual acts, just as it condemns unnatural or impure heterosexual acts.
I have battled with all kinds of sexual sin–it is not about getting used to it, nor is it about being a shut-in to avoid sin. We have to reprogram our lifeview to fit God’s Will, otherwise we will ultimately be unhappy, no matter what our sexual orientation, or any sin with which any individual may be afflicted.

Your Servant.
 
Just a clarification. Straight couples can’t do whatever they want either…

The Church teaches that you can’t have sexual relations with anyone that isn’t your sacramental spouse. It doesn’t matter if you are gay or straight having pre-martial relations is against what The Church considers natual law.

The only sexual relations that you can have are with a sacramental spouse. Because people of the same sex cannot get married to each other sacramentally, they are unable to have morally acceptable sexual relations.
 
THAT just leads me to believe that you are close-minded and, frankly, stupid. It is 100% not a choice
I think he wasn’t talking about being gay as you think of it, which would mean having those temptations. He said he didn’t consider someone tempted in that way to be “gay”.
 
As someone else said, the Church does NOT condemn being gay. It condemns homosexual acts, just as it condemns unnatural or impure heterosexual acts.
I have battled with all kinds of sexual sin–it is not about getting used to it, nor is it about being a shut-in to avoid sin. We have to reprogram our lifeview to fit God’s Will, otherwise we will ultimately be unhappy, no matter what our sexual orientation, or any sin with which any individual may be afflicted.

Your Servant.
Well, yes, that’s what I meant. It condemns the acts. I should have clarified that.

And about what you said here:
We have to reprogram our lifeview to fit God’s Will, otherwise we will ultimately be unhappy…
I HAVE been extremely unhappy and depressed the past couple of days, and looking at God in a completely different way due to all of this. Every time something good happens throughout my day, I literally think, what’s the point, I’m going to be miserable for the rest of my life. So being told right now I’m going to live alone and have to remain chaste my whole life really isn’t helping my spirituality one bit. Even though I know it’s what I “have to do.”
 
I HAVE been extremely unhappy and depressed the past couple of days, and looking at God in a completely different way due to all of this. Every time something good happens throughout my day, I literally think, what’s the point, I’m going to be miserable for the rest of my life. So being told right now I’m going to live alone and have to remain chaste my whole life really isn’t helping my spirituality one bit. Even though I know it’s what I “have to do.”
Lord Jesus grant Pfeffer102 the strength and grace to carry his cross so that he may live a pure and chaste life for you.
.I can not find it immediately but Jesus did speak of living as a enuch in one of the gospels paraphased " some are made enuchs in their mother’s womb, some choose to be enuchs for the kingdom of God…"

Pfeffer you said that being gay isn’t choice perhaps for you but not for all you take up a gay lifestyle. Some do choose to be gay others like yourself are oreinted that way.Don’t ask me why,

As to your question is it natural to stop mastrabating? i ask since when is it natural to start in the first place?
 
I’ll go out on a limb and say I think it is natural to not masturbate. It is a pathology. It something that many want to stop but can not. It is addictive. It is magnified and reinforced by today’s immoral society and misused technology. People are used and abused by the porn industry to feed this habit. There is nothing good or natural about it.

Once you break the habit, life is easier, you have more time for positive outlets. Pfeffer, continue in your battle to defeat this nasty habit. Restore your purity. There is so much more to life. Do not worry about your same sex attraction and what it mean for you life right now. One can not think clearly when addicted. Once you have broken the addiction you will have a clearer, healthier outlook. Note nobody should get married or be courting while addicted to porn or masturbation. It won’t go away just because you are married, and it does great harm to marriages.

God Bless and keep up the fight!
 
You misunderstand me. Like I said, it is a bit hard for me to put it into words, but what I am trying to say is that many people may face these temptations without being ‘gay’. It is just a temptation. These people who say they can make you ‘stop’ being ‘gay’ are entirely wrong, so don’t take me that way. I believe they misunderstand it entirely.
What I am trying to say is that while one is not born gay, one may be born with the desire or temptation to be so. And after that it remains a temptation, and though it may be hard, we do have a choice as to whether or not we allow these temptations to become reality. It may be a hard fight, but you do have a choice as to whether or not you carry them out, though perhaps not if you are tempted with them or if you are attracted to women. This is your cross to bear.
Why do you believe that if you are not involved in a sexual relationship you will live a lonely life? As I said before, sex is not everything. We can have wonderful friends and family, we can have our duties and our work, as well as our hobbies. There is much more to life to that. And we also have something more filling, more rich than any of those things I mentioned above; God.
You can do this if you try. You must have faith, but keep praying and trusting in God, and it will be okay.
 
You misunderstand me. Like I said, it is a bit hard for me to put it into words, but what I am trying to say is that many people may face these temptations without being ‘gay’. It is just a temptation. These people who say they can make you ‘stop’ being ‘gay’ are entirely wrong, so don’t take me that way. I believe they misunderstand it entirely.
What I am trying to say is that while one is not born gay, one may be born with the desire or temptation to be so. And after that it remains a temptation, and though it may be hard, we do have a choice as to whether or not we allow these temptations to become reality. It may be a hard fight, but you do have a choice as to whether or not you carry them out, though perhaps not if you are tempted with them or if you are attracted to women. This is your cross to bear.
Why do you believe that if you are not involved in a sexual relationship you will live a lonely life? As I said before, sex is not everything. We can have wonderful friends and family, we can have our duties and our work, as well as our hobbies. There is much more to life to that. And we also have something more filling, more rich than any of those things I mentioned above; God.
You can do this if you try. You must have faith, but keep praying and trusting in God, and it will be okay.
Oh, I’m sorry, I guess I did misunderstand you. 😦 And it does make sense, what you say…Sort of. Being “born with the desire” to be gay…I never thought of it that way. But still, you’re kind of wrong…I don’t have a choice. I have prayed and prayed to God for me to live a normal life, but it’s as if it was meant to be like this. Because my feelings aren’t changing. And I DEFINITELY don’t have the desire to be gay. I would never choose this “lifestyle.” I don’t think anybody would choose this “lifestyle” as you straight people call it. And I just don’t think anybody would understand it, unless they were gay. But I am sorry for jumping to conclusions about what I thought you meant.

I was literally in tears today at work. I had to go into the bathroom, because I couldn’t take it at one point. This is seriously not about the masturbation anymore, I’m hijacking my own topic. So I’m dropping that for now. But my thought all day was, “Did God want it to be like this? Did God want me to be unhappy?” Apparently…Apparently…

And it’s not really about the sex either. I could most certainly be chaste! That is definitely not the problem! It’s about the companionship; being *with *somebody. I remember reading a post saying that…
Just a clarification. Straight **couples **can’t do whatever they want either…
The keyword there is…couples. Oh, straight person, you can be a couple with someone?

I CAN’T.
 
I’m sorry if I upset you at all, I really didn’t mean to.
I know you don’t desire this personally, but by desire I mean temptation. You have no choice whatsoever in having this temptation, but you do have a choice in whether or not you accept an immoral lifestyle.
You can certainly still have friends and be chaste. Like I said earlier, take priests as an example on how someone can live a good life and still be chaste.
I will pray for you 🙂
 
I’m sorry if I upset you at all, I really didn’t mean to.
No harm done. 🙂
I know you don’t desire this personally, but by desire I mean temptation. You have no choice whatsoever in having this temptation, but you do have a choice in whether or not you accept an immoral lifestyle.
Ohhh, I see what you mean now. I have the choice whether or not to *act *upon the temptation. Do I have that right?
You can certainly still have friends and be chaste. Like I said earlier, take priests as an example on how someone can live a good life and still be chaste.
Yes, I know I can have friends, and as I said before, I don’t think chastitiy is the problem. The problem is, I cannot be in a relationship. I cannot live with somebody. THAT is what I’m concerned about. 😦 And…I guess I’m just going to have to stay concerned, because it’s not going to happen.

And…I know a lot of you are thinking this…But I believe I could definitely remain chaste living with somebody. Reason being, I just COULD NOT see myself doing something…sexual…with another guy. It just seems completely weird and wrong to me. The thing is, though, I’m not allowed to live with somebody. Or even be in a distant relationship. Yes, I can have friends, but not be in a relationship.

And once again, priests choose to be chaste. I didn’t. I’d much rather live a normal life with a woman than be chaste. But it just wouldn’t work.
I will pray for you 🙂
And thank you. 🙂
 
Inwe86 said not to beat yourself up if you fall because that is what confession is for. This seems like a double standard. We are supposed to act a certain way but if we fall, oh, there is always confession. Does this give us a ticket to do wrong. I know the answer is no but if you fall once and go to confession shouldnt we not do it, whatever it is, again. How many “falls” do we get for each sin? How many times can you fall, go to confession, repent, do it again…where does the cycle end. If I sin once or 100 times is it not the same. Cant Comprehend.
John Mc.
 
Inwe86 said not to beat yourself up if you fall because that is what confession is for. This seems like a double standard. We are supposed to act a certain way but if we fall, oh, there is always confession. Does this give us a ticket to do wrong. I know the answer is no but if you fall once and go to confession shouldnt we not do it, whatever it is, again. How many “falls” do we get for each sin? How many times can you fall, go to confession, repent, do it again…where does the cycle end. If I sin once or 100 times is it not the same. Cant Comprehend.
John Mc.
You must have the intention to not commit the sin again. This is different they knowing that you may fail again even if you don’t intend to. If you do it saying to yourself, I can just go to confession, you must include this detail in your confession(very important). This will really get the priests attention and he will ask additional questions and provide addition council.

My advice if you are in a cycle of going to confession, failing and going back every week is to meet with a priest face to face. Set up a separate appointment so that the priest has more time to address your specific needs. An anonymous confession is a little less of deterrent than knowing you will have to account for yourself face to face . Secondly if possible choose a priest that speaks out about this from time to time at Mass, don’t go to the “easy” priest.

To answer your last question, I think the cycle ends when you finally put God and others before yourself.

God Bless, and prayers.
 
Does anybody else really have a reply to my post? The one that I just posted? I just wanted to know how some people felt about that. I mean, am I right? I guess obviously somewhat, because people used to post almost instantly to a question I brought up, but when I said in a rebuttal to a couple people saying, oh, but we can’t have sex either… “I cannot even BE in a relationship,” it all became quiet.

For some…odd reason. :confused:
 
Does anybody else really have a reply to my post? The one that I just posted? I just wanted to know how some people felt about that. I mean, am I right? I guess obviously somewhat, because people used to post almost instantly to a question I brought up, but when I said in a rebuttal to a couple people saying, oh, but we can’t have sex either… “I cannot even BE in a relationship,” it all became quiet.

For some…odd reason. :confused:
The last post from you I see is from a couple of days ago. I think your question may have gotten lost in some other issues.

You might want to checkout the following show.

catholic.com/radio/event.php?calendar=1&category=0&event=5895&date=2009-10-02
 
Does anybody else really have a reply to my post? The one that I just posted? I just wanted to know how some people felt about that. I mean, am I right? I guess obviously somewhat, because people used to post almost instantly to a question I brought up, but when I said in a rebuttal to a couple people saying, oh, but we can’t have sex either… “I cannot even BE in a relationship,” it all became quiet.

For some…odd reason. :confused:
Do you feel that all relationships must be sexual? I ask this with full compassion and sensitivity to your situation. I seem to think that God allows physical afflictions in order that we, like Simon, can help Him carry His cross. In another post you mentioned that you “have to” refrain from a sexual relationship. In a same sense I would see a blind man “having to” not see or a paralyzed man "having to " not walk. How do we explain this? Only in that God made you and you are loved by Him completely and exactly as you are. We are asked to love Him back and many times that love comes in a form of a cross.

If I were gay would I fail? I could never say for sure. I would never intend to know what it is like or be so righteous as to say that I could remain chaste my entire life. For sure, I fail with chastity as a heterosexual. I pray that you do not give up on God as He will never give up on you. Life is hard. It is full of pain and burdens but I am told by Jesus that He prepared a place for me. He will come and take me so that where He is I might also be. That helps me to get through this valley of tears.

I know that I probably didn’t help much but if you just know that you are in my prayers then this post was worth it… God bless…teachccd
 
Yes, I know I can have friends, and as I said before, I don’t think chastitiy is the problem. The problem is, I cannot be in a relationship. I cannot live with somebody. THAT is what I’m concerned about. 😦 And…I guess I’m just going to have to stay concerned, because it’s not going to happen.

And once again, priests choose to be chaste. I didn’t. I’d much rather live a normal life with a woman than be chaste. But it just wouldn’t work.
Any good priest will tell you that he did not choose to become a priest. God chose him.

I think as a person with same-sex attractions, you’re forced realize something about vocations that most people take a long time to figure out. It’s not about what we want. It’s about accepting what God has called us to do.

I went through a time of discernment last year. My friend invited me to come to a Project Andrew meeting at our church, which was a one-night discernment event for entering the priesthood. Before that I never even considered becoming a priest, and when I first seriously considered it as a possibility, I was a bit frightened. I felt that first tugging at my soul to give priesthood a chance, to see that as a future for myself.

I did some reflecting during the days before the meeting. I was trying to argue in my mind that the priesthood was not for me, even though the real reason was I didn’t want to sacrifice the worldly, married life I had always envisioned for myself. The thought crossed my mind, “This must be like the struggle gay people must have knowing they can’t get married…” I’m not making this up. That’s what I thought, and it’s ironic that you are expressing a similar sentiment.

During the Project Andrew meeting I found myself becoming more attracted to the idea of a religious life, but I was still scared and wanted to struggle against the idea because it was not what I had planned for myself. Near the end of the night all the discerning men and the 10 priests or so sat around a circle and talked about the priests’ experiences with the priesthood. It was a fascinating conversation, listening to each priest’s unique experience of discerning their vocation, their reflections on what the priesthood means, and just their love for God and their mission in the world. It was a very humorous and light atmosphere, and I guess it disarmed my ego to the point where I sincerely accepted in my heart that I would join the priesthood if that’s what God wanted me to do.

But at that same moment that I offered God permission to make me a priest, I felt an answer that the priesthood was not for me, but that I was called to marriage. I was a bit confused however, because it was my understanding at the time that everyone was supposed to be single for the sake of the kingdom if at all possible, and I felt that I could. I struggled with this in my mind in the hour after the retreat was over, split between feeling a call to marriage and thinking that if I didn’t become a priest I was settling with second-best in the eyes of God. In the midst this emotional and mental struggle I heard a voice in my mind that said, “Do you not think that I can do great things with marriage?”

I was startled, because it honestly didn’t feel like this thought had come from myself. It was like it came out of nowhere. If there is any feeling of God speaking to a person, this must have been it. I read the vocational story of Fr. Benedict Groeschel recently, and it was amazing to me that he heard a similar voice in his head when he was a young boy, praying in a church, telling him that he was supposed to be a priest.

The point of this story is that even though marriage is the vocation that God has called me to and the one I wanted, up to that point I had made it my vocation, not God’s. I felt like Abraham when God told him to sacrifice his son Isaac. It was not in God’s plan to have Isaac killed, but God did it to test Abraham, to make sure that Abraham was following God’s will and not his own. Likewise, God wasn’t tugging at my soul to consider the priesthood because that was my vocation, but because he wanted to make me realize that I have to go where he wants me, not because I want to go there.

So I offer the perspective to you that your same-sex attractions are a gift from almighty God. He presented you with the challenge, in no unclear way, to submit to His plan for your life. This is a sign of his love for you. You see, not all people are capable of this same test. It saddens me to know of so many people who think they need a “soul-mate” to fulfill all their desires and make their lives complete and happy, so they’re perpetually dating someone or looking for the next girlfriend/boyfriend when who they’re really searching for is Jesus. God knows that you, however, are capable of being directly confronted with this knowledge, that we don’t need romantic, sexual love to be fulfilled and happy. So very many holy people throughout history have realized this truth. Some people take a whole lifetime to learn it, and some never learn it at all.

The bottom line is, every single one of us has to be completely willing to be celibate and single for the rest of our lives. Nobody chooses what challenges, what gifts, God gives them in this life, but we all must live according to God’s will, not our own.
 
Inwe86 said not to beat yourself up if you fall because that is what confession is for. This seems like a double standard. We are supposed to act a certain way but if we fall, oh, there is always confession. Does this give us a ticket to do wrong. I know the answer is no but if you fall once and go to confession shouldnt we not do it, whatever it is, again. How many “falls” do we get for each sin? How many times can you fall, go to confession, repent, do it again…where does the cycle end. If I sin once or 100 times is it not the same. Cant Comprehend.
John Mc.
I’m not saying that confession is a free ticket to sin. What I’m saying is that we’re all sinners, and we all fall. It’s part of our fallen nature. We’re not perfect, so chances are, we’re going to need to go to confession at some point

Besides, those of you who are not addicted to the sin of masturbation don’t know how hard it is to give it up. You don’t realize that it’s out of weakness we fall, not because we’re malicious and want to offend God. 😦 No matter how hard we want to stop, it’s a HUGE struggle just getting through one day sin-free. But this is why we have confession. God knew we would all struggle with different things.
 
I’m not saying that confession is a free ticket to sin. What I’m saying is that we’re all sinners, and we all fall. It’s part of our fallen nature. We’re not perfect, so chances are, we’re going to need to go to confession at some point

Besides, those of you who are not addicted to the sin of masturbation don’t know how hard it is to give it up. You don’t realize that it’s out of weakness we fall, not because we’re malicious and want to offend God. 😦 No matter how hard we want to stop, it’s a HUGE struggle just getting through one day sin-free. But this is why we have confession. God knew we would all struggle with different things.
I agree. About people not knowing how hard it is to give it up, and about confession always being there for us.
But about the first one, it seriously is hard. The moment I realized it was a mortal sin though, I stopped. This is now my 5th day m-word free, after doing it for like, 2-3 times a day before. It’s TEARING ME UP inside, but…I’ll just, try to let it go…🤷
Do you feel that all relationships must be sexual?
No, I honestly don’t. That’s what I was saying before…I just think it would be weird, and obviously wrong to have sex with another guy. So this…arises the tense, HYPOTHETICAL question…
If I found another guy who felt the exact same on that issue (remaining chaste all his life), could I have a…“relationship?” Like, a sex-free, sin-free, relationship? WOULD that be sin-free? I guess it would be considered more “best friends” than a relationship, but…I don’t know. I’m just asking for your opinion.
 
If I found another guy who felt the exact same on that issue (remaining chaste all his life), could I have a…“relationship?” Like, a sex-free, sin-free, relationship? WOULD that be sin-free? I guess it would be considered more “best friends” than a relationship, but…I don’t know. I’m just asking for your opinion.
I think the reason you haven’t really gotten an answer to this question is that it’s a much more difficult question to consider. :o The morality of the sexual acts is “easy” for us to comment on because the Church clearly lays out the teaching on that matter. What you’re asking hasn’t really been spoken on.

Being that I don’t know what it’s like to go through what you’re going through, I can only offer my own musings on what I think it might be like. The thing that comes first to my mind is that, if you found another guy who felt the same way, I would think it would, at the very least, pose a great deal of temptation. I would think it would be difficult to live together as housemates, to say the least.

Further, would such a relationship be “exclusive?” What if you or he had another close male friend? Would that be appropriate? Would it cause jealousy?

We know what marriage is. We know what friendship is. It almost seems like your question is whether or not there is something that is sort of in between those two kinds of relationships. Such a possibility would be breaking new ground, so it’s tough to comment on specifically. I’d have to think about it a lot more.
 
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