Is it religion, or relationship, or both?

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justinthemartyr

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Did Jesus intend to start a religion, or just a personal relationship with no discipline of religion or religious activity to guide us with greater structure as creatures of habit? I see where the term religion is used in scripture, this being just two places, so there must be some validity to religion in the Christian faith.

here is the definition of the term “religion”

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century
1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
— re·li·gion·less adjective

1 Timothy 5:4
But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.

James 1:26
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
 
justinthemartyr said:
Did Jesus intend to start a religion, or just a personal relationship with no discipline of religion or religious activity to guide us with greater structure as creatures of habit? I see where the term religion is used in scripture, this being just two places, so there must be some validity to religion in the Christian faith.

here is the definition of the term “religion”

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century
1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
— re·li·gion·less adjective

1 Timothy 5:4
But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.

James 1:26
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
Click to expand...
How anyone can say its not a religion when its plainly stated in the Bible must be brain dead.

Hey, I used that verse in another thread.
 
justinthemartyr said:
Did Jesus intend to start a religion, or just a personal relationship with no discipline of religion or religious activity to guide us with greater structure as creatures of habit? I see where the term religion is used in scripture, this being just two places, so there must be some validity to religion in the Christian faith.

here is the definition of the term “religion”

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century
1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
— re·li·gion·less adjective

1 Timothy 5:4
But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.

James 1:26
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
Click to expand...
How anyone can say its not a religion when its plainly stated in the Bible is beyond me. They have to be brain dead.

Hey, I used that verse in another thread.

James 1:26
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless
Click to expand...
 
The relationship between us and God is most important, and is what Jesus was and is asking us to have: A true relationship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Now, Religion, specifically the Roman Catholic Church, helps that relationship and strengthens it, if used properly. For example, the Sacraments are like a bridge to God and help us to get closer to Him, but outside of all this, it is up to us, by the graces of Christ through the Holy Spirit, to continue to nourish that relationship personally, in prayer, reading the Bible, spiritual readings, the rosary, etc. Again, **our relationship with God should not just be going to mass on Sunday’s! **Holy Mass strengthens our relationship with God and grants us graces for the journey of life walking down the “narrow road” which leads to Heaven. **Going to Mass on Sunday’s is not the whole journey, but is vital in helping us on this journey. ** Again, relationship with God is first, and religion(The Catholic Church, i.e. the sacraments, Mass,etc.) aids/strengthens that relationship.

And YES! Jesus did intend to Start a religion, Specifically the Catholic Church. How do we know this? Jesus told Peter, “upon this rock,” Peter," I will build my Church". Early Christian writing during the time of Peter and the Scriptures themselves in Acts, and the epistles, clearly give Peter a role of authority, different from the rest, one of being Bishop of Rome, what we call today the Pope. And to keep some type of consistency in teachings, there were Bishops and some type of order in the Church. There was also new traditions being passed on, which is expressed in the letter of Timothy. All these factors and others led to the religion of Christianity, specifically the Catholic Church. Now, if you want to be technical about it, the Catholic Church actually began when Jesus told Peter, “upon you I shall build my Church”, and what re-enforced this Church was the Descent of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles.
Code: 
  God Bless,
                    ejreydrum
 
The two are not exclusive, at least not in the case of Catholicism, I don’t bother with other religions anymore, so I don’t know what their take would be.

To say the two is seperate is like that “I’m spiritual, not religious” argument, and just as asinine. If you have a relationship with Christ, you automatically have a religion. If you’re obedient to the doctrines and disciplines of Our Lord as given to us by The Church, you will have a relationship with Him.

Our society seems to think the word ‘religion’ is too serious, or too heavy, or requires too much of a commitment. Whatever the case, there’s a movement to abandon it in favor of the more “freeing” and “enlightened” ‘spirituality’ or ‘relationship’ or vague ‘faith’. Well I’m proud to be part of the ***religion ***started by the One True God, and I’m not going to trivilize it or deny the dignity of it’s history by referring to it in vague euphamisms.
 
Jesus established a Church. We have a covenant relationship with God as members of Christ’s body.
 
Well considering “religion” is Latin for “a tie” (more literally a thing that binds)…religion *is *a relationship, now isn’t it?
 
justinthemartyr said:
Did Jesus intend to start a religion, or just a personal relationship with no discipline of religion or religious activity to guide us with greater structure as creatures of habit?
Click to expand...
All religions are about relationships of one sort or another. The religion/relationship dichotomy is one of the silliest of the many silly things evangelical Protestants say.

Edwin
 
God had already started a religion and a relationship through the Jewish people. Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.” Matt 5:17

Jesus fulfilled all of the prophecies of the Old Testament. His completed humanity and Divinity brings us into a deeper and more personal relationship.

Jesus established a Church.
 
Hastrman said:
Well considering “religion” is Latin for “a tie” (more literally a thing that binds)…religion *is *a relationship, now isn’t it?
Click to expand...
no, religion comes from the latin word religio, the latin word religio comes from the latin word ligare, which means “bind” or “connect”

however, beyond the errors in latin we have an error in reasoning as clearly the etymological history of a word does not cary a logical necessity as to the nature of the thing the word represents as a fasciest government is not a government made of bundles of sticks.
 
Jesus, who said that he had come so that we might have life and have it in its fullness, in abundance (cf. Jn 10:10), has also explained to us what “life” means: “this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (Jn 17:3). Life in its true sense is not something we have exclusively in or from ourselves: it is a relationship. And life in its totality is a relationship with him who is the source of life. If we are in relation with him who does not die, who is Life itself and Love itself, then we are in life. Then we “live”.
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Pope Benedict XVI
Click to expand...
 
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Vincent:
fortunately this is not the end all and be all of what we were given. One of the greatest tools in our relationship with God is the religion he gave us, of which Pope Benedict is the earthly shepherd of. 🙂
 
Jesus did not create a system of beliefs, his apostles did. especially that apostle-wannabe…Paul.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Jesus did not create a system of beliefs, his apostles did. especially that apostle-wannabe…Paul.
Click to expand...
Jesus created everything, He is the Creator.

By what authority do you claim that jesus did not speak through His apostles to make a belief system?
“he who hears you, hears me” -Jesus to His apostles.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Well if you put it that way, then you can say anything you want.

Historically speaking though, he didnt.
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Historically speaking he didn’t what?

he made the belief system of Judaism, he is God.

Yes, he made it, and yes he also fulfilled it and continued it into what is now called Christianity, the NT type of the OT judaism. He did not abolish the law, he fulfilled it and brought it into the human heart.
Yes, jesus instituted the church, the mass, baptism, confession, and all other of the 7 sacraments in scripture. he then told His disciples, the apostles, the first bishops of the church that He would speak through them, and yes, he gave us a religious belief system.
 
Jesus of Nazareth came to usher in the Kingdom of God. It was his primary message. He taught a much clearer understanding of God than previously. The ritual observances that were necessary were “fulfilled”.

Those who came after him sought to put into writing the “meaning” of his life and teachings. They sought “meaning” in his death. How could he usher in the Kingdom of God if he was dead? And what a death he died! A criminal’s death.

Paul called him the “Scandalon”…the scandal of his birth…the scandal of his life…the scandal of his death were all topics dealt with in the writings of thos first people called Christians.

There were various schools of thought, with a wide variety of belief and doctrine in those first few centuries. The “proto-orthodox/proto-catholic” consolidated their beliefs under their appointed leadership of deacons, priests and bishops. Eventually this group emerged as the largest of those groups who called themselves Christians.

As the emerging “catholic-orthodox” group gained emminence and authority, they consolidated the various writings and identified which writiings they accepted as “apostolic”, even though the other groups also claimed apostolic authority, they evenutally went “underground”.

As orthodox belief became more defined, those who disented were called “heretics”.

I have a very interesting volume called the “Pre-Nicene New Testament”, which contains all those books still in existence which were considered scripture by various “Christian” groups and traditions of those first centuries.

Interesting read, for those interested in how the New Testament we have today came about.

Jesus didn’t come to establish a new religion, but came to usher in the Kingdom of God and teach us about a God who was not shrouded and hidden in “outward forms.”
 
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