Is it right for a Roman Catholic to become a Polish National Catholic

[chriswilliam]

CIOLOR]FONT=Arial] I have read that it is wrong and even a sin to join the PNCC if you are are a Roman Catholic. I also read that Rome said that the PNCC has apostolic seccession and valid scaraments.So if that is true why is it a sin. It is’nt like joining a Protestant church tha may have different believes.

 

[cameron_lansing]

chriswilliam:

CIOLOR]FONT=Arial] I have read that it is wrong and even a sin to join the PNCC if you are are a Roman Catholic. I also read that Rome said that the PNCC has apostolic seccession and valid scaraments.So if that is true why is it a sin. It is’nt like joining a Protestant church tha may have different believes.I’ll give a response from the code of canon law. The Catholic Catechism, since it quotes the code, would be similar.

We believe that the Church in this world exists and is organized as a society which
subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the bishops in communion with him (canon 204 §2). To be in communion with the Catholic Church requires being joined in its visible structure by the profession of faith, the sacraments, and its ecclesiastical governance, that is, its authority (canon 205). We are obliged to keep this communion (canon 209 §1). All three requirements must be kept.

Schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him (canon 751). The Polish Catholic Church refuses to submit to the ecclesiastical governance or authority of the Supreme Pontiff. Because of this, it is not in communion with the Catholic Church at present.

The Catholic Church inflicts certain spiritual penalties on those who are schismatic. I mention a couple here. They incur a latae sententiae (i.e, automatic) excommunication(canon 1364 §1). Publicly known schismatics normally could not be given a Catholic funeral (Canon 1184§1.

The PNCC is in dialogue with the Catholic Church though, and we hope that its communion with the Church will soon be restored. Until then, it would not be lawful to join it. The Catholic Church does not recognize “dual membership.”

Usually when someone commits schism, the act would also understand to be objectively and gravely sinful.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Yes, excommunication is a grave matter. When someone realizes they are excommunicated, they need to get to confession (from a priest united with the Holy See) and get their sins absolved (I am not sure, but I think an excommunication may need to be lifted by a bishop or by a priest who has permission from the bishop). What’s the point of taking the risk? I hope you come back into full communion with the Catholic Church.

God Bless.

 

[chriswilliam]

Semper Fi:

Yes, excommunication is a grave matter. When someone realizes they are excommunicated, they need to get to confession (from a priest united with the Holy See) and get their sins absolved (I am not sure, but I think an excommunication may need to be lifted by a bishop or by a priest who has permission from the bishop). What’s the point of taking the risk? I hope you come back into full communion with the Catholic Church.

God Bless.

OK why did Pope John Paul lift the excommunication of Fr. Herdou (might be spelled wrong) he was the fouder and first prime bishop. He also said they have a valid HolyOrder,Eucharist,penance, Last rites and the other scarments.It is also ok to get communion in each other churches(oked by pope). So what you are saying is it is wrong to receive the eucharist in each other churches because the PNCC are excommunicated and the RC should only receive in the roman church. If so sinful why would the Pope say it's alright. Also did you ever look in the back of the poeple mass book. I'm sorry if I sound rude I'm not I have the greatest respect for the Roman Catholic Church. I just like to discuss religion and what others have to say

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

chriswilliam:

OK why did Pope John Paul lift the excommunication of Fr. Herdou (might be spelled wrong) he was the fouder and first prime bishop. He also said they have a valid HolyOrder,Eucharist,penance, Last rites and the other scarments.It is also ok to get communion in each other churches(oked by pope). So what you are saying is it is wrong to receive the eucharist in each other churches because the PNCC are excommunicated and the RC should only receive in the roman church. If so sinful why would the Pope say it’s alright. Also did you ever look in the back of the poeple mass book. I’m sorry if I sound rude I’m not I have the greatest respect for the Roman Catholic Church. I just like to discuss religion and what others have to say

Chris,

Our churches are still in schism. A Roman Catholic should never leave mother Church for any reason. What was the reason you left the RCC and became PNCC? You asked for a reason, and we gave you an answer. It is up to you to decide. The Catholic Church and the PNCC are not in full communion, so if you wish to be in full union with Rome, then please, go to confession. If not, why ask?

God bless.

 

[chriswilliam]

Semper Fi:

Chris,

Our churches are still in schism. A Roman Catholic should never leave mother Church for any reason. What was the reason you left the RCC and became PNCC? You asked for a reason, and we gave you an answer. It is up to you to decide. The Catholic Church and the PNCC are not in full communion, so if you wish to be in full union with Rome, then please, go to confession. If not, why ask?

God bless.

Even as a Roman Catholic I didn’t believe in the Popes infallibility. I don’t see why priest can’t get married. That stopped me from becoming a priest and I think it stops alot of men to becoming priests. I don’t go to private confession because why should I confess to someone that also sins. I believe in birth control but not abor tion I don’t understand why divorced poeple can’t get the eucharist everyone makes a mistake. All these are man made laws and be charge by the word of the pope. The PNCC don’t have all these laws. I was looking for a church that had just the basic Catholic faith and not all the laws. I know that all religions have rules but they should based on the bible. That why I went to the PNCC. Now you know and I won’t ask anymore questions. Even so we disagree May God Bless you.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

chriswilliam:

Even as a Roman Catholic I didn’t believe in the Popes infallibility. I don’t see why priest can’t get married. That stopped me from becoming a priest and I think it stops alot of men to becoming priests. I don’t go to private confession because why should I confess to someone that also sins. I believe in birth control but not abor tion I don’t understand why divorced poeple can’t get the eucharist everyone makes a mistake. All these are man made laws and be charge by the word of the pope. The PNCC don’t have all these laws. I was looking for a church that had just the basic Catholic faith and not all the laws. I know that all religions have rules but they should based on the bible. That why I went to the PNCC. Now you know and I won’t ask anymore questions. Even so we disagree May God Bless you.

Chris,

Priests can get married in our Eastern Rite. It is a discipline of the Western Rite which “prevents” (really it is up to them) priests from getting married (and the Western Rite still has some married priests). Most of the time I go to an Eastern Rite Ruthenian Catholic Church (which is in 100% full communion with Rome). It is not a “man made law” that divorced people cannot receive communion, it is a law that people cannot receive communion if they are in sin. Once you get married, if it is a valid marriage, it is a marriage for life (it is a sacrament just like Holy Orders) so it is considered adultery if a man or a woman remarries before their marriage has been declared null because when you get married, you become one flesh. If you read Jesus’ views on divorce, he spoke very strongly against it. Still, the CC recognizes that some people do make mistakes, and when applicaple, those persons can receive an annulment. The infallibility of the pope is not that he never sins, or that he never makes a mistake as a person, it just means that he is infallible in the matter of faith and morals and when he is speaking for the whole church and the bishops in communion with him. I suggest you pick up a copy of the Catechism (you can order one for under $8 or read it online), as I think you still have some misconceptions of your original Church.

God bless.

 

[Joe_Monahan]

Semper Fi:

Priests can get married in our Eastern Rite.

SF,

Correction. Married men may be ordained. Priests may not marry.

Joe

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Joe Monahan:

SF,

Correction. Married men may be ordained. Priests may not marry.

Joe

Indeed. I was going to quote this also, I knew it would come out wrong.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Chris,

Confession is Biblical. Consider these verses from John chapter 20 which Christ spoke:

20: And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21: Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. (my emphasis).

Also please consider Matthew 9:2-8:

2: And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
3: And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4: And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5: For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6: But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
7: And he arose, and departed to his house.
8: But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

And 1 Corinthians 11:27:

27: Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

We do not believe that the priest forgives the sins of his own power, we believe it is the priest, in union with Christ who forgives the sins.

God bless.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Chris,

I also suggest that you read Humanae Vitae, Blessed Paul VI’s encyclical about birth control and abortion. If it isn’t true today, I don’t know what is.

God bless.

 

[chriswilliam]

Semper Fi:

Chris,

Confession is Biblical. Consider these verses from John chapter 20 which Christ spoke:

20: And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21: Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. (my emphasis). Hi, I know what Jesus said about fergiving sins. That when He started the scarament of penance. But what He didn’t say that we have to tell our sin to another human and that what a priest is. Why can’t we tell God our sin and have the priest grant us absolution. For it is God that forgives us not the priest. You seem like a pretty good Catholic and I think you know that. Even the RCC knows this and at times has commual confession.

Also please consider Matthew 9:2-8:

2: And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
3: And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4: And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5: For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6: But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
7: And he arose, and departed to his house.
8: But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

And 1 Corinthians 11:27:

27: Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

We do not believe that the priest forgives the sins of his own power, we believe it is the priest, in union with Christ who forgives the sins.

God bless.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

chriswilliam:

Hi, I know what Jesus said about fergiving sins. That when He started the scarament of penance. But what He didn’t say that we have to tell our sin to another human and that what a priest is. Why can’t we tell God our sin and have the priest grant us absolution. For it is God that forgives us not the priest. You seem like a pretty good Catholic and I think you know that. Even the RCC knows this and at times has commual confession.

Of course it is God that forgives. Confession isn’t a punishment, it is a stage within that forgiveness. It is supposed to help remind us of what sins that we committed and where we need to alter our lives to live in a closer union with Christ and to make us humble. Christ is the ultimate priest, the sacrificial lamb, the Word of God Incarnate. It is pretty clear to me that when He said “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained” remember, he said this to His Apostles, who He made priests at the last supper. He said, these and greater things shall ye do (or something like that). When we confess our sins to a priest, is Christ not there? For when 2 are gathered in His name, there He is. It is not the priest forgiving the sins, but the priest in union with Christ. Sacramental Confession is pretty biblical, whether it’s one on one confession with the priest (which has been practised since ancient times, as both East and West practise it) or general confession, it is still the priest giving the absolution. I pray that you come back to the One, Holy, Catholic church. There is no reason to be in schism with the church Christ established.

God bless.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

One more thing Chris, please pick up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Here’s a couple of links of places you can order them at. You can get them used from Amazon for under $2 and shipped via media mail very cheap. Or you can get a new one for $8.99.

amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385479670/qid=1131242866/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-0924371-8634249?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

You can also order them from Get Fed, a Catholic bookstore for around $8.09 if you’d rather order 'em from a Catholic bookstore here:

getfed.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=981

God bless.

 

[chriswilliam]

chriswilliam:
A sin might be a personal. Why should you confess it to a priest who might of committed the same sin.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

chriswilliam:

CIOLOR]FONT=Arial] I have read that it is wrong and even a sin to join the PNCC if you are are a Roman Catholic. I also read that Rome said that the PNCC has apostolic seccession and valid scaraments.So if that is true why is it a sin. It is’nt like joining a Protestant church tha may have different believes.## At least on paper, it amounts to committing a mortal sin, that of schism. ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

chriswilliam:

A sin might be a personal. Why should you confess it to a priest who might of committed the same sin.

Because sins are confessed to priests as to those who are ministers of Christ - to Father Joe Bloggs, a minister of Christ; not to the sinner Joe Bloggs in his private capacity as Joe Bloggs, whose sins may be blacker than those of us who go to him to confess our sins.​

He acts not by any power or grace or virtue or authority of his, but by the infinite grace of Christ, Who is always the true Minister of all the sacraments. Any grace in the sacraments - such as that of Reconciliation - is the grace of Christ, not that of Joe Bloggs, or of ours; since he and we can contribute nothing from ourselves, but sin, because we are sinners. All good is from God; not from man, except as God’s minister. ##

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

chriswilliam:

A sin might be a personal. Why should you confess it to a priest who might of committed the same sin.

Because Christians have done so since the time of Christ. Look at Scripture, it’s obvious…

James 5:16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[chriswilliam]

Semper Fi:

Chris,

Confession is Biblical. Consider these verses from John chapter 20 which Christ spoke:

20: And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21: Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. (my emphasis).

Also please consider Matthew 9:2-8:

2: And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
3: And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4: And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5: For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6: But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
7: And he arose, and departed to his house.
8: But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

And 1 Corinthians 11:27:

27: Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

We do not believe that the priest forgives the sins of his own power, we believe it is the priest, in union with Christ who forgives the sins.

God bless.

Sin is personal between God and man, you should be able to confess your sin right to Him. Jesus did say who sins you forgive are forgiven and sin you retain are retained. ok? Where did He say that you have to say your sins out loud for them to be foregiven for God knows your sin any how. the priest is in union with Christ to forgive sins and to grant absolution though Him. A priest doesn’t have to know your sins to do that. Your in Christ chris

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

chriswilliam:

Sin is personal between God and man, you should be able to confess your sin right to Him. Jesus did say who sins you forgive are forgiven and sin you retain are retained. ok? Where did He say that you have to say your sins out loud for them to be foregiven for God knows your sin any how. the priest is in union with Christ to forgive sins and to grant absolution though Him. A priest doesn’t have to know your sins to do that. Your in Christ chris

Chris,

Christians of both the East and the West have confessed their sins to a priest since antiquity. Sins are not just ‘personal’, they affect more than just you. i.e., if you murder someone, your sin isn’t just affecting you. Confession was established as a way to humble yourself before God and help you amend your life to live better as a Christian. If Jesus didn’t establish Confession; then please explain James 5:16 to me and so many more passages as well (especially James 5:16 and John 20:22 where He gives the Apostles the power to forgive and retain sins). I think what you have here is just some wishful thinking, and I can respect your opinion on the matter but I disagree. Would you not agree that if you have to search your soul to confess your sins, that you would be less, or more likely to commit those sins again?