Is it right or wrong to provide prenatal care for illegal immigrants?

[ishnianqueen]

However, this question isn’t about illegal immigration. It’s a question over whether anybody, anywhere, should deny an innocent child lifesaving help. If you saw a toddler in the middle of a busy street, you’d be morally obligated to help, whether it was your own child or a stranger. Do only the children of citizens deserve to live? Do they not share the dignity of being in the image and likeness of God because of what their parents did? Are we only obligated to care about people that are part of our own group?

The question isn’t about denying help, either. It’s about who should pay for it. Denying public funding for it is not the same as denying access. This is like the contraception debate and the HHS mandate. Oy.

 

[SamH]

So, they should abort the child? Just like a woman who doesn’t have the “ability to care for” a disabled child?

Besides you who said they should abort the child?

 

[waanju]

Poor people in America who are struggling to make ends meet generally have no problem getting help from others regardless of if they were born here to American citizens, immigrated here legally or came here illegally.

California actually will have a budget surplus (insane I know) if they approve Governor Moonbeams’s budget

We’re actually the only state to* usually* have a surplus. Our education and other cuts that make people think we’re in debt are because the federal gov kind of treats CA like an ATM.

 

[WildCatholic]

To deny anyone necessary medical care is wrong, BUT the question was should the GOVERNMENT provide it. That is where the debate is occuring. I highly doubt even the hardest of hearted politicians would agree that barring a woman from prenatal care because she is an illegal immigrant is ok. But whether or not the taxpayer (generally an American citizen) should foot the bill is up for debate.

If you’re going to go that route then, why should the government pay for anything? We should just completely rely on the market and popularity.I’m sure Christ would like that. I’m not saying he’d support people stealing services, but i’m sure he’d want us to take care of those who can’t. I hardly think its stealing to provide prenatal care

 

[waanju]

The question isn’t about denying help, either. It’s about who should pay for it. Denying public funding for it is not the same as denying access. This is like the contraception debate and the HHS mandate. Oy.

I’m not 100% sure of the details of this particular law, but in my own state, the law is that any woman who presents at an emergency room in active labor cannot be turned away. Since we have a lot of illegal immigrants here, I assume some of the women who get free deliveries (because they can’t afford to pay) are illegal immigrants. I think it would be wrong if the law were changed to turn them away soley on the basis of their immigration status.

 

[JackieMom]

Funny, I live in SoCal and it seems like most of the people doing this stuff are at LEAST second generation.
All of the illegal immigrants I know are hardworking and fleeing from deplorable conditions. Despite what people seem to think, it’s not that easy to legally enter the US. I have an aunt in Mexico who literally has a cartel demand out for her head and is in hiding. She’s college educated and has been saving up for 15 years (with money we send her, when we know where she is) to get her paperwork sorted. It’ll probably be another decade before she can come to the US.

However, this question isn’t about illegal immigration. It’s a question over whether anybody, anywhere, should deny an innocent child lifesaving help. If you saw a toddler in the middle of a busy street, you’d be morally obligated to help, whether it was your own child or a stranger. Do only the children of citizens deserve to live? Do they not share the dignity of being in the image and likeness of God because of what their parents did? Are we only obligated to care about people that are part of our own group?

You’re right - the second and third generations of illegals are often living this way (gangs, dropping out of school, drug use, shameless welfare mentality, rampant teen/single parenthood…) I think these are the types citizens object to “helping.” Few people begrudge the hardworking quiet old man his subsidized home when he’s working three jobs and otherwise obeying the law.

 

[SamH]

We’re actually the only state to* usually* have a surplus. Our education and other cuts that make people think we’re in debt are because the federal gov kind of treats CA like an ATM.

A SURPLUS?

You might want to buy a newspaper:

(2012 actual)

California’s outstanding state government debt rose by about $5 billion to $617 billion during the last year, according to a new report from State Budget Solutions, a nonpartisan, DC-based research and advocacy group.

The state’s debt burden comes out to roughly $16,400 per California resident.

Most of the outstanding debt is related to unfunded pension liabilities. The report also looked at the fiscal year 2013 budget gap, unemployment trust fund loans and unfunded retiree health benefits.

California had the largest debt tally in the nation – it’s the most populous state – and higher per capita debt than the national average.

Read more here: sacbee.com/2012/08/28/4764524/report-california-state-debt-rises.html#storylink=cpy

While Gov Brown “predicts” a surplus for 2013 that is rapidly falling apart. Current “real” estimates put this year’s deficet at a billion dollars.

 

[ishnianqueen]

If you’re going to go that route then, why should the government pay for anything? We should just completely rely on the market and popularity.I’m sure Christ would like that. I’m not saying he’d support people stealing services, but i’m sure he’d want us to take care of those who can’t. I hardly think its stealing to provide prenatal care

Why should the government provide for anything indeed. They’re not my parents, nor are they a person. They have no obligation for charity.

We, as people, on the other hand, DO have that obligation. Too many people see their taxes as essentially their charity - “I already pay for Medicaid and Social Security - why should I give anything else?” I would MUCH rather donate time and money to my own OB/GYN practice (which regularly provides free and discounted services to poor women, as well as refuses to participate in contraceptive and abortive services) than have the government either provide the health care directly or give money to places like PP to do the job for them.

So, really, I don’t think Christ would have a problem with the government butting out, as long as the people in need got what they needed through the charity of His people.

 

[ishnianqueen]

I’m not 100% sure of the details of this particular law, but in my own state, the law is that any woman who presents at an emergency room in active labor cannot be turned away. Since we have a lot of illegal immigrants here, I assume some of the women who get free deliveries (because they can’t afford to pay) are illegal immigrants. I think it would be wrong if the law were changed to turn them away soley on the basis of their immigration status.

But this wasn’t talking about labor, either - and really, the Hippocratic oath would prevent someone like that being turned away, anyhow. This was talking about basic prenatal care.

 

[SamH]

But this wasn’t talking about labor, either - and really, the Hippocratic oath would prevent someone like that being turned away, anyhow. This was talking about basic prenatal care.

Quit bringing facts into this thread.

 

[ishnianqueen]

Quit bringing facts into this thread.

My mistake. Won’t do it again.

 

[waanju]

Besides you who said they should abort the child?

Usually, illegal immigrants are not the most educated. This is a statistical fact. Thus, they’re unlikely to have information that enables them to practice moral forms of family planning (like NFP). If, as you suggested, they do not"bring a child into this world" because they cannot afford to pay for the delivery, then they’re more than likely to resort to contraception or abortion.

I’m just saying we should give free prenatal care, not that we should pay for everything. I do think that anyone who comes for free prenatal care should be promptly investigated by DCFS…

 

[CatholicGeek1]

I do not think the immigration issue is really important to this conversation. We are Pro-Life. There are children that need care. Care should be provided. That is as far as the debate need go in my opinion.

 

[PatriceA]

I do not think the immigration issue is really important to this conversation. We are Pro-Life. There are children that need care. Care should be provided. That is as far as the debate need go in my opinion.

100% agree.

 

[JackieMom]

But this wasn’t talking about labor, either - and really, the Hippocratic oath would prevent someone like that being turned away, anyhow. This was talking about basic prenatal care.

The big question is - if we stopped providing services to illegals, would they stop coming, would it encourage them to improve their lives and become self-sufficient, or would we just have millions of people who are sick/hungry/homeless/without cellphone service?

 

[SamH]

Usually, illegal immigrants are not the most educated. This is a statistical fact. Thus, they’re unlikely to have information that enables them to practice moral forms of family planning (like NFP). If, as you suggested, they do not"bring a child into this world" because they cannot afford to pay for the delivery, then they’re more than likely to resort to contraception or abortion.

I’m just saying we should give free prenatal care, not that we should pay for everything. I do think that anyone who comes for free prenatal care should be promptly investigated by DCFS…

I think everyone is aware of how babies are brought into the world. Besides NFP there is always the 100% effective method of abstinance.

 

[SamH]

The big question is - if we stopped providing services to illegals, would they stop coming, would it encourage them to improve their lives and become self-sufficient, or would we just have millions of people who are sick/hungry/homeless/without cellphone service?

What has 50 years of welfare and free social services done to the “legal” residents of the US?

Why would/should anyone expect the latest recipients to change the situation?

 

[ishnianqueen]

I do not think the immigration issue is really important to this conversation. We are Pro-Life. There are children that need care. Care should be provided. That is as far as the debate need go in my opinion.

I don’t think the immigration issue matters, either, really, but I do think that the debate about where the care comes from and who pays for it does. Personally, I think the government has absolutely no obligation to pick up the medical tab for anyone - illegal immigrant, legal resident alien, or full citizen - and that it would be much more effective, both financially and bureaucratically, if it was done locally through charities or churches, private practices that donate services (like my own OB/GYN practice), or even private citizens who simply pick up the tab out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[JackieMom]

What has 50 years of welfare and free social services done to the “legal” residents of the US?

Why would/should anyone expect the latest recipients to change the situation?

Obviously it’s created generational poverty and a couple generations of Americans who have lost the pride in self-sufficiency that defined Americans for 200 years. And a whole lot of Democrat voters, too!

 

[SamH]

Obviously it’s created generational poverty and a couple generations of Americans who have lost the pride in self-sufficiency that defined Americans for 200 years. And a whole lot of Democrat voters, too!

Why do you think Obamacare includes a voter registration form?