Is it right that priests go from vocation to vacation in retirement?

[jmcrae]

With a severe priest shortage that doesn’t seem to be getting any better around this neck of woods as priests continue to age and retire, I am beginning to wonder if it is right that priests retire at all.

Around here, the retired priests keep right on saying Mass and hearing Confessions until they are literally unable to do so. I know one priest who, in his daily life is so confused he has no idea where he is, most of the time (because he’s 90 years old and he had a very difficult early life that has caught up with him in his old age) - until he says Mass, and then he’s as lucid as the Bishop. He says daily Mass at our parish sometimes. And I know he says Mass every day, somewhere. He has to be driven to the Church and then driven home again, because otherwise he would get lost. But once he’s saying Mass, there is a total transformation.

But he would be no good with marriage counselling, or with teaching Sacramental Prep classes. There’s just no way he’d be able to do that, any more. That’s why he was asked to retire, a few years ago.

 

[perfectpeach]

Our priest was forced to retire due to his poor health. After his retirement, he was wheelchair bound. It was as if God kept him walking until then…

 

[puzzleannie]

I posted here because I thought it was a question of moral behaviour.

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your cousin. He looked beyong the question of his health. No one could stop him from doing what he felt was right. I think giving a set age for retirement is a license to cop out and many around here have leaving ‘clusters’ of parishes high and dry.

I still don’t think you quite understand the dynamics and meaning of “mandatory retirement age” in canon law. The bishop can and often does request priests to stay on and many wish to with their whole hearts, but simply are physically unable to carry that burden any more, but each and every one I know–and it is a goodly number–serve in some capacity as long as they are able to function. I am completely baffled at the morality tie-in for this issue. By your logic it would be immoral for a married couple once they reach retirement age to winter in Florida if it takes them away from their children and grandchildren, nor would it be moral for the wife to go on a cruise with friends while her husband takes a golfing vacation.

 

[John_Augustine]

With a severe priest shortage that doesn’t seem to be getting any better around this neck of woods as priests continue to age and retire, I am beginning to wonder if it is right that priests retire at all. I’ve been looking at my own life and seeing that being a wife and mother since my tender early years of twenty-something my responsibility as a wife and mother has NOT subsided. It in fact has increased and is even multiplying with time due to marriages and births in the family. The last time I checked my husband was awake and shaving his morning stubble and will soon come into the kitchen for a breakfast-to-go and a filled lunch pail to take to work. And our parents are both quite aged and alive and kicking and still very much active parents, grandparents and even great-grandparents. And these aged folks are still in the loving and sometimes very trying difficult passage of life together as married people. There is no earthly time when a married couple can retire from being spouse and parent…ok…till death do we part.

Why do Catholic priests ‘retire’ away from being active in ministry - real ministry? Do they suddenly stop being responsible as priest? Does their vocation suddenly fade into thin air when they reach a magic number? This does not seem correct. I realize that some ‘retired’ priest end up residing and coexisting with another priest in some parishes but numbers suggest that most seem to disappear into the great vast land of retirement somewhere warm and sunny. What is up with this?

A man who gives up riches, a wife, children, significant amounts of his own freedom, his time 24/7 for a period of decades, and in some countries all under the risk of martyrdom or persecution deserves, I think, a slight rest after a good four decades of service!

 

[Dorothy]

A retired priest has been with our parish for over five years now. He is 80, and thank God, he says four out of five weekday Masses, sometimes concelebrating with one of our two other priests. He also takes his turns at Sunday masses.

On Saturday, four out of five times it is the retired priest hearing confessions. Our pastor and other priest have many other duties, such as being one of the editors of the Catholic newspaper in the area, and the other priest has Catholic Campus Ministry as we have a university just five minutes from our parish. There are also a lot of retirement and assisted living homes nearby where they are needed to say Mass.

When someone from the parish is very ill and just entered the hospital the retired priest is right there to visit and administer the Sacraments, and continues to do so as long as there is a need.

He drops into the ladies spiritual book discussion club occasionally to answer questions, and he mentioned that he really enjoys the fact that he no longer, at his age, has to be concerned about parish finances, etc. He totally enjoys celebrating Mass, visiting the sick, and giving talks on Church History and other topics when he can.

Other retired parish priests in this area (Florida) do the same, according to their particular talents.

I don’t see any of them backing away from the priestly things they do, they just don’t have to be in charge of and monitoring all the things they had to in the past.

 

[Beautiful]

Ok, Ok, This will work now at this point. Enough have responded with heartfelt stories of priests they know who are quite aged and still actively doing priestly duties to some capacity or another.
When your father retired from working at IBM, Xerox, Brownfield High School, NYPD or LAPD or whatever maybe you through him a party and from that point on he enjoyed the morning paper and breakfast at his leisure everyday the rest of life but did he stop being a husband, father and grandfather? No
It puzzles me that we should ever refer to priests or any religious as being of an age of retirement. It somehow reduces the concept of the beautiful vocation of religious to a mere occupation categorized with a dollar and hourly amount. It is detrimental to those who are in religious vocations and to those who they care for. To what capacity you may ask? Think about it.
“Grandpa Joe is retired”
“Father Murphy is retired”
Grandpa Joe is still doing the grandpa Joe thing. He is just retired from getting up every morning and punching the clock for eight hours but he is still doing the married vocation thing.
Father Murphy is still doing the Father Murphy thing. He is still doing the priestly thing.
Both conjure up completely different images in my mind. To even refer to religious as retired not to mention having the audacity to put an age number of 70-75-80 on it is all wrong.
Perhaps the greatest detriment has been to the priests themselves. They have gone through life with the concept that at a particular age they will have liberties that are associated with a twenty-year or thirty-year or forty-year contract. If this were not the case then I think I can safely say that the migration pattern of some those in religious vocations might be just a little different at that particular set point and age.

 

[Beautiful]

Today’s meditation in Magnificat is from Saint Augustine.

With the fullness of time he appeared – the one who wanted to set us free from time. For, set free from time, we would be able to reach that eternity which is beyond time. We would therefore no longer need to say: When will the hour come? For it would be an eternal day. No yesterday would precede it and no tomorrow would follow it.

In this world, however, days go by and others come. No day remains. Even as we speak, the moments pass, the first syllable pressed on by the second that is waiting impatiently to be heard. As soon as we have spoken, we have become a little older. I am certainly older now than I was this morning. Nothing stands still. Nothing remains firm in time. We must therefore love the one through whom the times came to be, so that we may be set free from time and become established in eternity, where time and the changes it brings no longer exist.

It is, then, a great mercy on the part of our Lord Jesus Christ that he, through whom the times came to be, came to be for our sakes in time, that he, through whom all things came to be, came to be in the midst of all things, that he became what he had made. For he became what he had made. He, who had made the human race, became human, so that what he had made would not be lost.

It is debase that we should mark the priesthood with human worldly time while with the fullness of time Christ is already come. He has set us free from time. We – marrieds, singles and religious are free from time in Christ.

 

[Rachel_J]

When your father retired from working at IBM, Xerox, Brownfield High School, NYPD or LAPD or whatever maybe you through him a party and from that point on he enjoyed the morning paper and breakfast at his leisure everyday the rest of life but did he stop being a husband, father and grandfather? No

Have you read the responses in this thread? When priests retire they don’t stop being priests either. They visit the sick, hear confession, celebrate mass, do retreats, assist in education… numerous ‘priestly’ things. What they “retire” from is the day to day administrative tasks that come with being a priest sometimes. Just as when my father retires he will continue in many fatherly/grandfatherly tasks, but doesn’t deal with the day to day tasks of raising children… in fact he has already given that aspect up and hes not planning on retirement for another 15 years.

Neither are giving up their vocation. What is required in that vocation changes on a day to day basis. Certainly there are those fathers/grandfathers who continue past retirement age to do those tasks usually done by younger men, but that is also the case for priests. It’s an unfortunate reality that affects both vocations.

 

[Phemie]

The larger question is “how do our bishops best use the talents of our priests as their energy and agility declines in old age?” Apparently, many believe it prudent to have a mandatory retirement age, which gives the advantage of helping plan for giving assignments to older priests, but could, perhaps, end up being a cop out for some leader trying to avoid making tough decisions…but I somehow doubt that that most 76 year old priests are able to do full-time ministry – remember that that is 10-15 years later than usual retirement age for us layfolk…The flip side of the situation of some parishes being left high and dry is some parishes being left with a pastor who is simply incapable of effectively performing all his duties and leading his flock…such a rule of thumb may be arbitrary for some particularly hearty 75 year old priests who may feel like they’re only 65, and you may know of some one particular priest who was still vigorous and did not continue using his gifts to serve, but I doubt that is common. My observation is that most priests approaching 75 are both in need of and deserving of lighter duty.

I watched a former pastor write and submit his letter of resignation when he reached 75. They must submit their resignation, the bishop doesn’t have to accept it. The wise bishop knows which priests can continue their pastoral ministry and such priests will find their resignation acknowledged with a request to continue in ministry. That’s certainly what happened with our pastor until he became ill and had to retire.

But even at his Order’s retirement home I saw evidence of ‘non-retirement’. All the priests there who were still capable of being active helped in parishes whenever/wherever they were needed. Only the most feeble didn’t do temporary duty somewhere.

 

[puzzleannie]

Ok, Ok, This will work now at this point. Enough have responded with heartfelt stories of priests they know who are quite aged and still actively doing priestly duties to some capacity or another.
When your father retired from working at IBM, Xerox, Brownfield High School, NYPD or LAPD or whatever maybe you through him a party and from that point on he enjoyed the morning paper and breakfast at his leisure everyday the rest of life but did he stop being a husband, father and grandfather? No age.

tired of beating the point

retired priests do not stop being priests when the no longer have active pastoral responsibility for the day to day administration of one parish or a cluster.

husbands and fathers do not cease to have the marriage vocation when their children move out of the house

vocations change as those embracing those vocations age and mature, but their essential natures do not change.

can you find me one example, anywhere, of a priest who was physically and mentally capable and not under any canonical penalty (laicized for misconduct for example) who has ceased to be a priest? no you cannot, because a priest is ordained “a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek”

why not take off the gloves and argue the true issue:
some dioceses have fewer priests than others and I have a feeling of resentment and ill-use because my parish or diocese is under-served, it is somebody’s fault, and I have to find someone to blame. why not go further, the demands of my own vocation are weighing on me, so I can ease my resentment by accusing those in other vocations of shirking.

OP is unwilling to admit that the priestly vocation can be lived out in any other fashion save as a full time pastor, so don’t waste time any more on this fruitless discussion.

 

[Beautiful]

tired of beating the point

retired priests do not stop being priests when the no longer have active pastoral responsibility for the day to day administration of one parish or a cluster.

husbands and fathers do not cease to have the marriage vocation when their children move out of the house

vocations change as those embracing those vocations age and mature, but their essential natures do not change.

can you find me one example, anywhere, of a priest who was physically and mentally capable and not under any canonical penalty (laicized for misconduct for example) who has ceased to be a priest? no you cannot, because a priest is ordained “a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek”

why not take off the gloves and argue the true issue:
some dioceses have fewer priests than others and I have a feeling of resentment and ill-use because my parish or diocese is under-served, it is somebody’s fault, and I have to find someone to blame. why not go further, the demands of my own vocation are weighing on me, so I can ease my resentment by accusing those in other vocations of shirking.

OP is unwilling to admit that the priestly vocation can be lived out in any other fashion save as a full time pastor, so don’t waste time any more on this fruitless discussion.

Puzzleannie
I don’t appreciate you lambasting me here.

Please, if your find this discussion fruitless then rather than assault me directly then leave the thread alone and find some other place to talk.

Sincerely,
Beautiful

 

[jrabs]

tired of beating the point

vocations change as those embracing those vocations age and mature, but their essential natures do not change.

can you find me one example, anywhere, of a priest who was physically and mentally capable and not under any canonical penalty (laicized for misconduct for example) who has ceased to be a priest? no you cannot, because a priest is ordained “a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek”

why not take off the gloves and argue the true issue:
some dioceses have fewer priests than others and I have a feeling of resentment and ill-use because my parish or diocese is under-served, it is somebody’s fault, and I have to find someone to blame. why not go further, the demands of my own vocation are weighing on me, so I can ease my resentment by accusing those in other vocations of shirking.

OP is unwilling to admit that the priestly vocation can be lived out in any other fashion save as a full time pastor, so don’t waste time any more on this fruitless discussion.

Spot on Annie - as usual.

 

[Drilling4Truth]

Puzzleannie
I don’t appreciate you lambasting me here.

Please, if your find this discussion fruitless then rather than assault me directly then leave the thread alone and find some other place to talk.

Sincerely,
Beautiful

With all due respect, your lambasting of aging priests in this thread has warranted passionate responses, most of which you have ignored.

Priests don’t sit back and count the days until the reach 75 so they can head off to Florida, believe it or not. My vocations directer doesn’t even mention retirement when we discuss the life. In fact, he has gone to great lengths to make sure I understand the lifelong sacrifice that comes with being a priest. A sacrifice that doesn’t end at retirement. You make it seem that priests are just riding the pine until a magical date comes up. But, you still haven’t indicated you are doing anything to help recruit new young priests. Indeed, your persistent criticism of priests can only hurt potential vocations.

 

[Beautiful]

The Dilemma of Priest Retirement
Joseph H. Fichter

The simple statistics of a growing Catholic population requiring the ministry of a declining number of aging priests portray a critical shortage. Kenneth Woodward (1983) predicted that the “the Catholic priesthood threatens to become a geriatric society.” Father Rober Sherry, director of the Bishops’ Committee on Vocations, put it simply: The American Catholic Church is “running out of priests: (1983:472). The dilemma becomes more acute as the younger clergy abandon the priesthood and the older clergy accept the invitation to retire.

When the Fathers of the Second Vatican Council recommended resignation for bishops and pastors, they were motivated by the welfare of both the Church and its personnel. They had no premonition that their recommendation would prove to be too late, and once put into effect, would make the situation worse.

*Joseph H. Fichter is Professor of Sociology at Loyola University, New Orleans Louisiana Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, 1985 jstor.org/pss/1386278

Read more at the address given

So you see that the idea of ‘retirement for priests’ is a new product of Vatican Council II. I believe that it is a by-product of modernist’s way of thinking that has and is destroying vocations in the priesthood. To even apply the term ‘retirement’ to any point in the priesthood smacks of worldliness.

While some here may be riding on the crest and last wind of some pretty old but somewhat functional cherished old timers you will be wagging your heads soon and seeing what I am trying to have you see. I too have cherished stories of old timer priests celebrating weekday Masses and other in-between times. That was two decades ago folks. Those days are nearly over for you folks and soon your days will be over too and these lovely heartfelt stories will be nothing more than old published posts on the internet. I suggest that all those bristling their spines about nothing need to go back and prayerfully read all the posts that I have on this thread. Face your future as a Catholic and pray along with me that we see a change but please note that I feel the whole notion of publicly dubbing priesthood as a job that qualifies for retirement has been and is a huge mistake and detriment to the priesthood.

 

[Drilling4Truth]

You’re not bringing any enlightenment here. You criticize anybody who doesn’t agree with you, even a religious. Well, we’re not going to apologize for having faith that vocations will continue to increase in this country. Maybe they’re not in your own particular diocese. I pose the question again, what are you doing to change that?

Of course you mention Vatican II, the eternal whipping boy for any and all dissatisfied laymen. You may disagree with the idea of priests retiring, but I still don’t think you understand what a retired priest does and doesn’t do. For one, I hope they no longer have to deal with overbearing parishioners who criticize most aspects of religious life and still wonder why more young men don’t become priests.

 

[Beautiful]

“We are at the start of the greatest cultural experiment the world has ever seen, outside of Jesus Christ,” Johnson told the Clarion Herald, New Orleans’ archdiocesan newspaper. "In the last 90 years, our longevity has increased 30 years. The question then becomes, ‘What does Jesus expect of us in these 30 years?’

Source

So you see that even some priests admit to fumbling around with the term retirement. This is news for those here responding in terms of only what they think they know and see. Their viewpoints are self-centered and one dimensional.

To get rid of the notion of priest retirement would be the best thing that could happen today. I expect those who like comfort and some sort of idea that a worldly life has a pay-off in the end – kinda’ like some sort of pot and the end of the rainbow – those will want to continue to throw resistant post after resistant post in an effort to confuse the thought at hand. If priests aren’t ‘retiring’ then the retirement crowd in those sunnier places I mentioned earlier feel that rain has poured down on their parade?

 

[Allen537]

Source

So you see that even some priests admit to fumbling around with the term retirement. This is news for those here responding in terms of only what they think they know and see. Their viewpoints are self-centered and one dimensional.

This source you have cited does not, in any way, shape, or form, support any of the conclusions you have been giving. If anything, it supports what everyone else has been saying to you. It talks about, among other things, how priests continue to work well into their retirement.

And as far as self-centered and one dimensional… You may need to re-read your posts. Self-centered (my diocese needs priests), and your attitude is extremely one dimensional (my way or the highway).

 

[SeekerJen]

I don’t understand the problem the OP has with elderly priests retiring from active parish ministry. We don’t expect lay people to keep working their jobs until they are very old and frail- they may keep some responsibility, but those responsibilities lessen as the years go by out of necessity. Why should it be different for priests? They are still priests, just as a husband and father who has retired from his breadwinner job is still a husband and father. Ordination doesn’t evaporate once the priests officially retire from their pastor appointments. They are not retiring from the priesthood, they are retiring from the parish leadership and administrative duties that accompany active ministry.

At our parish, we have one of our retired former pastors living in our rectory with the current pastor. The retired pastor has retired from the leadership and administrative duties that the current pastor is charged with, but still maintains an active liturgical and sacramental schedule which is of tremendous benefit to our parish. Our current pastor has been with us for six months because another former pastor retired in the summer. His own health was suffering, he had lost his mother and several priest friends in the previous two years, and he was struggling to keep up with pastoral duties. He has moved into a religious retirement community, but as he is able to drive and wishes to serve, he travels around the area and subs for resident priests at various parishes- a benefit to many parishes in this priest shortage.

 

[Beautiful]

So do you know what is in that pot at the end of the rainbow of retirement? Feces
I don’t mean to be vulgar here but I guess what is – is.
Allow me to explain.

I labored as a nurse’s aide in a nursing home not even a decade ago. To-date, it was among the most educational years in my life. I discovered a number of things including the fact that one can go to daily Mass just about every day in life and pray the rosary everyday, be a good spouse, raise a family, be gainfully employed for X years and do good works and one day you find yourself in an over populated building sharing time with nurses and aides with a bunch of other old needy infirm people. And you know what? There is no more ways to get to go to Mass or even recieve sacraments. And if you are lucky some persistent nurse’s aide pushes his/her pastor to start up a Eucharistic Ministry to get Holy Communion to you and others in your crowded building. And when the lay-minister comes to you, you get awakened from your sleep to hear about 10 seconds worth of prayers and then you receive Holy Communion. Bam – that is it folks. Once a week – spirituality in a few second shell.
I’m just trying to give a realistic view to those who are still trying to hold on to the pot-o-gold at the end of the rainbow of retirement. Retirement is for dreamers.

 

[Beautiful]

The term retirement has a bad ring to it.