Is it scientifically proven that some animals have souls?

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Some very long bows being drawn here.
Especially given that for most of the OT there was no belief in what we call “heaven” or even an afterlife.
 
If you accept that sciences are based on reason and natural philosophy is based on reason…then natural philosophy is indeed a science (which was undisputed until 400 years ago).

Evidence of self actuation is enough for natural philosophy to prove the existence of a soul - allegedly.
 
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BlackFriar said:
Especially given that for most of the OT there was no belief in what we call “heaven” or even an afterlife.
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Since there are faithful men riding horses in heaven according to the New Testament, there are at least horses in heaven if you believe the Holy Scriptures.
 
If you want people to engage you then the usual protocol is to quote and reference your sources…
 
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BlackFriar said:
If you want people to engage you then the usual protocol is to quote and reference your sources please.
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I already said that my source was the Bible.
11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19
 
Please.
Do you also hold that angels have feet and God the Father a material body that sits on a throne (see prior verses).

Or maybe, just maybe, we are not dealing with a book that is teaching truths about the nature of heaven (funny how there is nothing much in the NT about animals in heaven for such an important truth) but rather a book that is heavily into allegory and symbols and not concerned about heavenly horses in themselves at all :roll_eyes:.

Now if you want to talk about animals in the New Heaven and the New Earth at the end of the world that’s another story done to death here:
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Will my dog be in Heaven? Apologetics
Do you think there will be animals in heaven? Our pets? Horses? Chickens? My grandchildren want to know… What supports your theory?
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BlackFriar said:
a book that is heavily into allegory and symbols
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I had a conversation with an atheist recently about the Bible and his point of view was that the Bible, both OT and NT was filled with fairy tales. He more or less said as you did that even Christians say that many passages are “heavily into allegory and symbols”. However, he felt that this was more or less across the board and not restricted to any one book in the Bible. The parting of the sea by Moses, Jonah and the whale, God walking about in a garden, walking on water, multiplication of loaves and fishes, etc. I was unable to convince him otherwise.
 
If you do not have the scholarly skills to determine what sort of writing in the Bible is what type of literary form I can see why you give in to the temptation to avoid the brain work by just black and white assuming everything is literally true.

Yet even a teenager can see Revelation is “not like the other.”

So by all means continue to believe angels have feet and God the Father a body that sits in a throne in heaven. As for me, you really have nothing rational to say on the matter of heaven methinks…let alone the presence of animals.
 
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BlackFriar said:
Yet even a teenager can see Revelation is “not like the other.”
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Not so much for some atheist teenagers, I am afraid. The books are not the same, of course, but for the adult atheist I spoke with, she has the POV as I already mentioned above.
BlackFriar said:
So by all means continue to believe … God the Father a body that sits in a throne in heaven.
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Do you reject the Nicene Creed, which says that Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father?
 
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The scientific method relies on measurement and experiment. The soul is not a physical object, so it can’t be measured. Science can not conclusively deny the possibility of the soul, but it can’t be proven to exist by science either.
 
Natural philosophy wasn’t science. Science is about measurement and observation, whereas natural philosophy is about logic. Natural philosophy presumes men and women have different numbers of teeth because male and female horses do, science measures the amount of teeth men and women have to prove or disprove this hypothesis.
 
AlNg said:
Do you reject the Nicene Creed, which says that Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father?
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Let me get this right.
Not only do you believe that animals exists in heaven (and God has a body because he sits on a throne in heaven) because of an imaginative allegorical scene in Revelation…but you believe the above sentence from Nicea further proves this as well?

Well you are on your own from this point forwards as I fear further conversation with you will rob me of my sanity also. Good luck with that sort of critical scholarship.
 
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Hubbardology said:
The soul is not a physical object, so it can’t be measured.
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Not sure about that.
The non-material Higgs field cannot be directly “measured” either, but it seems its existence can be experimentally proven by inferring its necessity from the inexplicability of certain physical observations/patterns of matter it effects if it is not posited.
but it can’t be proven to exist by science either.
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But it may still be proven by reason - given that science is not the only discipline making use of methods based on reason.
 
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Animals do not have souls. After they die, they just decay.
(sorry pet owners 😉)

But…since Heaven will be a place of perfect happiness, I tend to believe you’ll be able to have you favorite pet in Heaven if you want it.
 
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