Is it sinful NOT to vote???

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You totally missed the points. The bishops are talking about non-negotiable issues, i.e. abortion, gay marriage and religious liberty. The next President will appoint several new supreme court judges. The President may not directly do something about abortion and gay marriage but whoever he appoints for the supreme court judges will have direct influence. The other things you mentioned are “prudential issues”, the church teaches that non-negotiable issues always come as top priority.

Your statement sounds you know better than our bishops. That is exactly where the problems are. Many Catholics are picking and choosing. There is no “obedience” in their minds at all. Do you remember Adam and Eve? They thought they knew it all, they thought they knew better than what God has told them.
I read through the Catholic Voter guide. It seems a bit misguided. But then, that is just my opinion. But it does clarify where all of this animus is coming from.

Are telling me that your bishops hear the voice of God over their shoulder as they write their voter pamphlet. That might make them Protestant, don’t you think?

But to answer your question directly, no I don’t remember Adam and Eve. They were somewhat before my time. Do you remember them?
 
I could ask similar questions about the complete immorality of bankrupting our country and so making it completely impossible to care for the poor and needy of the future. 🤷

Reducing/eliminating debt is thenumber one priority for keeping ones finances in order/ sustainable. Whether you like it or not Obama has proved himself either unwilling or ultimately incapable of eliminating or even just reducing the debt and deficit and instead has increased them enormously. Whether or not Romney can do any better I do not know, but at least he hasn’t been proven incapable of doing so. How someone can vote for someone who has proven themselves unwilling/unable to reduce or even keep constant the debt and deficit of this country, and in so doing is putting in jeopardy the livelihood of future Americans is beyond me. But to each their own. 🤷
Yes, Obama has been disappointing. However, no president could have taken office and balanced the budget, with what he came into. I strongly disagree with his handling of the “recovery”.

For me, the choice is between the Romney plan, which is a proven failure, having been tried twice (Reagan and Bush), and the lack of a plan from Obama. Choose your poison.

I was leaning toward Romney until he started lying in such a bold faced manner. He simply lacks the integrity to be a leader. QED. I can’t follow anyone who has been as dishonest as he in the past month. He just lacks the moral fiber to be president.

Even my 90 year old grandmother who hates Obama can’t stomach Romney anymore. She was his supporter until he started pandering for the vote. She can’t figure out what he stands for because apparently he is trying to invent it as he goes along.
 
Read the Bible.
Your comment is insulting and unwarranted.

And this is not intended to derail the thread, but the challenge for Protestants is that the Catholic Church has just been “wrong” so many times in history, and it has also been “right”.

There is the grandeur and tradition, which anyone must admire. It is the only corporation which has lasted so long. Yet, the blunders have also been huge. Even the most devout Catholic surely must admit this.

So, how does one figure out when the Church is right, and when it is wrong? This is the challenge that Luther had to face, and it is still a challenge today for any thinking person whether Catholic or of any other faith.
 
Yes, Obama has been disappointing. However, no president could have taken office and balanced the budget, with what he came into. I strongly disagree with his handling of the “recovery”.

For me, the choice is between the Romney plan, which is a proven failure, having been tried twice (Reagan and Bush), and the lack of a plan from Obama. Choose your poison.

I was leaning toward Romney until he started lying in such a bold faced manner. He simply lacks the integrity to be a leader. QED. I can’t follow anyone who has been as dishonest as he in the past month. He just lacks the moral fiber to be president.
I never said I expected him to actually balance it completely, but seriously, he didn’t even come close to making a move in the right direction, in fact, he moved in the exact opposite direction. If I thought Romney’s plan was as much of a failure as you think it is then I would definitely think about voting 3rd party or not voting at all. There is no way that a president who has proved beyond a doubt that he is unwilling/incapable to even keep the debt and deficit in check, but instead has spent all sorts of money on his own pet projects, including funding abortion in Mexico. I’m sorry, but my point stands, the fastest way to bring in financial ruin is to raise debt and deficit and that is exactly what Obama has shown as his plan on how to run the govt. How anyone can seriously vote for someone who is willing to add such ridiculous amounts of debt to our nation is, like I said, beyond me. I can understand people refusing to vote and voting 3rd party etc because they do not like the options presented, but I will never understand how people can vote for someone who has already proven himself incapable of handling our nations finances. 🤷

ETA: As to the idea that Romney is a bold faced liar… well plenty of people claim that just as plenty of people claim the same about Obama. How is someone to figure out the truth of this darned matter? Unfortunately its all too easy to get caught up in the fault of believing everything that is said by those you agree with and rejecting all that is said by those who disagree with you. Its important to keep that in mind when trying to untangle this whole issue. 🙂
 
I never said I expected him to actually balance it completely, but seriously, he didn’t even come close to making a move in the right direction, in fact, he moved in the exact opposite direction. If I thought Romney’s plan was as much of a failure as you think it is then I would definitely think about voting 3rd party or not voting at all. There is no way that a president who has proved beyond a doubt that he is unwilling/incapable to even keep the debt and deficit in check, but instead has spent all sorts of money on his own pet projects, including funding abortion in Mexico. I’m sorry, but my point stands, the fastest way to bring in financial ruin is to raise debt and deficit and that is exactly what Obama has shown as his plan on how to run the govt. How anyone can seriously vote for someone who is willing to add such ridiculous amounts of debt to our nation is, like I said, beyond me. I can understand people refusing to vote and voting 3rd party etc because they do not like the options presented, but I will never understand how people can vote for someone who has already proven himself incapable of handling our nations finances. 🤷

ETA: As to the idea that Romney is a bold faced liar… well plenty of people claim that just as plenty of people claim the same about Obama. How is someone to figure out the truth of this darned matter? Unfortunately its all too easy to get caught up in the fault of believing everything that is said by those you agree with and rejecting all that is said by those who disagree with you. Its important to keep that in mind when trying to untangle this whole issue. 🙂
Obama disappoints me in that he speaks in platitudes, and is ineffective as a leader. His vision does not translate into action.

I was feeling pretty good about Romney, until every time he spoke he contradicted himself. Now I just don’t believe him. It is an honesty issue. He will say anything to get into office. I suppose he thinks that he is morally justified in doing that. I don’t judge him. But he is clearly not qualified to be a moral or political leader. He belongs in business. I’ll bet he could sell any clunker on a used car lot for top dollar.
 
From St. Michael Center:

numberofabortions.com/

usdebtclock.org/

youtube.com/watch?v=D9vQt6IXXaM
On Nov 6 Election Day, will Americans vote for king Herod or Christ the King? Catholics who say they love God can choose to vote for politicians to stop abortion and same-sex marriage or politicians who continue the work of Herod who slaughtered the Holy Innocents in trying to kill Baby Jesus. In San Francisco, gays and lesbians promoting their lifestyles, paraded dressed as priests and nuns insulting God and the Catholic Church. Is this freedom? Pray and vote. God Bless you for stopping the slaughter of the unborn and the sinful corruption of our children. As American Catholics, who would stain their vote in the blood of millions of aborted babies? Who will vote to accept the insane family concept of ‘Two Gay Daddies’ and ‘Two Lesbian Mummies’ to raise children? Pray for America. If we vote sin and evil, we will become part of it.
 
Obama disappoints me in that he speaks in platitudes, and is ineffective as a leader. His vision does not translate into action.

I was feeling pretty good about Romney, until every time he spoke he contradicted himself. Now I just don’t believe him. It is an honesty issue. He will say anything to get into office. I suppose he thinks that he is morally justified in doing that. I don’t judge him. But he is clearly not qualified to be a moral or political leader. He belongs in business. I’ll bet he could sell any clunker on a used car lot for top dollar.
Quite the opposite. He has accomplished quite a lot since he’s been in office. Nearly everything he’s done has actually been harmful to the United States, however.

Obamacare will forever change the economy and the basic structure of our country. It puts our very lives in the care of bureaucrats - from cradle to grave. Yes, it’s that far-reaching. Doctors are already opting-out by retiring - they can clearly see what’s on the near horizon. That alone should be reason not to vote for him, but many are still delusional and believe that government control of our health care, thus, our lives, is a good idea.

He restored funding for abortions in other countries. He did that, I believe, the day after he was inaugurated. He does a lot of things by Executive Order, totally abusing the power of his office as POTUS. He acts more like a dictator than a US President.

I’ll get a list together and post it here. It’s early and I haven’t opened my files yet. Thanks for asking this question because it gives me a chance to show who this man really is.
 
I read through the Catholic Voter guide. It seems a bit misguided. But then, that is just my opinion. But it does clarify where all of this animus is coming from.

Are telling me that your bishops hear the voice of God over their shoulder as they write their voter pamphlet. That might make them Protestant, don’t you think?
Can you show where you get the idea that the bishops believe that they “hear the voice of God” while they are writing the voters guide?

You are aware that the voters guide is written by the bishops to reflect Catholic teachings on how one should vote are you not?

Also it is a Catholic belief that the Church (through its bishops) is guided by the Holy Spirit in matters pertaining to faith and morals so that would not be a protestant idea.
But to answer your question directly, no I don’t remember Adam and Eve. They were somewhat before my time. Do you remember them?
Read the Bible.
Your comment is insulting and unwarranted.
That might be so but I believe your first reply set up this reply that you did not like. It takes two to tango afterall.
 
Obama disappoints me in that he speaks in platitudes, and is ineffective as a leader. His vision does not translate into action.

I was feeling pretty good about Romney, until every time he spoke he contradicted himself. Now I just don’t believe him. It is an honesty issue. He will say anything to get into office. I suppose he thinks that he is morally justified in doing that. I don’t judge him. But he is clearly not qualified to be a moral or political leader. He belongs in business. I’ll bet he could sell any clunker on a used car lot for top dollar.
I will take an imperfect man any day over one who has clearly proven that he cannot do the job as president. Sure, its possible that Romney is not up to the job, but Obama has proved beyond doubt that he is not fit for office. 🤷
 
I will take an imperfect man any day over one who has clearly proven that he cannot do the job as president. Sure, its possible that Romney is not up to the job, but Obama has proved beyond doubt that he is not fit for office. 🤷
I don’t see anything wrong with this reasoning, but I live in a blue state with a dreadful Republican party. I’d like to see the two parties either pony up something better or else move over for a different party to take their place. The Whigs disintegrated over whether slavery ought to be outlawed or not, and I think the Republicans may disintegrate for lack of a consensus about issues, from abortion and gay marriage to what it means to be a fiscal conservative.

Meanwhile, in spite of their self-image as the defender of the common man, the Democrats may disintegrate over the question of how much license is too much and what defense of the common man even means in an atmosphere where no self-responsibility can be demanded. There gets to be a point where the typical voter is going to say, “too far”. I think the Democrats have gotten there.

Anyway, I’m not inclinded to stay on a bad vessel going nowhere when so little good can come of doing so in my home state. My choice between Republican and Democrat used to be a lot more about the good that each was trying to accomplish, but I’ve gotten to the point that it seems more about the bad that each is trying to let people get away with. I can’t get behind that.

Anyway, it depends a great deal whether or not you are voting in a state with anything like a contested race.
 
I don’t see anything wrong with this reasoning, but I live in a blue state with a dreadful Republican party. I’d like to see the two parties either pony up something better or else move over for a different party to take their place. The Whigs disintegrated over whether slavery ought to be outlawed or not, and I think the Republicans may disintegrate for lack of a consensus about issues, from abortion and gay marriage to what it means to be a fiscal conservative.

Meanwhile, in spite of their self-image as the defender of the common man, the Democrats may disintegrate over the question of how much license is too much and what defense of the common man even means in an atmosphere where no self-responsibility can be demanded. There gets to be a point where the typical voter is going to say, “too far”. I think the Democrats have gotten there.

Anyway, I’m not inclinded to stay on a bad vessel going nowhere when so little good can come of doing so in my home state. My choice between Republican and Democrat used to be a lot more about the good that each was trying to accomplish, but I’ve gotten to the point that it seems more about the bad that each is trying to let people get away with. I can’t get behind that.

Anyway, it depends a great deal whether or not you are voting in a state with anything like a contested race.
I’m not saying that people have to vote Romney, I’m just pointing out that actually voting for Obama is like looking at a parent who is over their head in credit card debt and made a commitment a few years ago to try and get out of it, only to wind up getting even further in debt and telling them, you know what, don’t try and get someone else to help you, I can see that you are incapable of even helping the situation, but I think you should be left in charge of your families debt.
 
  1. Bishop Thomas John Paprocki from Springfield, Illinois: Voting for Obama jeopardizes the eternal salvation of your own soul:
    rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/27/catholic-bishop-voting-for-obama-jeopardizes-the-eternal-salvation-of-your-own-soul/
  2. Bishop Ricken calls on area Catholics to fight HHS ruling on religious liberty
    greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20121026/GPG010404/310260362/Bishop-urges-vote-against-candidates-who-support-abortion-gay-marriage?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE
  3. Bishop Richard Malone of Buffalo:“**A Catholic whose conscience has been properly formed by scripture and church teaching cannot justify a vote for a candidate or referendum question that opposes the teachings of the church,” he said. “[V]ote your faith on Nov. 6.” **ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=13376&MediaType=1&Category=26
  4. Archbishop Chaput: Catholic teaching trumps party loyalty on abortion: catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1204504.htm
  5. Maine bishop: Catholics cannot justify voting for a candidate who opposes Church teaching:
    catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=16051
  6. Cardinal Dolan on the US Election: catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=47910
  7. Bishop Nicholas ANthony Dimarzio rues failure to teach the faith, says Catholic vote for Obama ‘stretches the imagination’
    :catholicvote.org/discuss/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/HHS-Rule-Response-from-Bishop-DiMarzio-20100202.pdf
  8. Bishop Peter Jugis of Charlotte: lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2012/08/high-fives-to-bishop-peter-jugis-of.html
 
I don’t see anything wrong with this reasoning, but I live in a blue state with a dreadful Republican party. I’d like to see the two parties either pony up something better or else move over for a different party to take their place. The Whigs disintegrated over whether slavery ought to be outlawed or not, and I think the Republicans may disintegrate for lack of a consensus about issues, from abortion and gay marriage to what it means to be a fiscal conservative.

Meanwhile, in spite of their self-image as the defender of the common man, the Democrats may disintegrate over the question of how much license is too much and what defense of the common man even means in an atmosphere where no self-responsibility can be demanded. There gets to be a point where the typical voter is going to say, “too far”. I think the Democrats have gotten there.

Anyway, I’m not inclinded to stay on a bad vessel going nowhere when so little good can come of doing so in my home state. My choice between Republican and Democrat used to be a lot more about the good that each was trying to accomplish, but I’ve gotten to the point that it seems more about the bad that each is trying to let people get away with. I can’t get behind that.

Anyway, it depends a great deal whether or not you are voting in a state with anything like a contested race.
Have you gotten involved beyond voting every 2 years? Of the two main political parties, we can work with the GOP; we can’t work with the Democrat Party. You know the reasons why: The GOP is pro-life, and many candidates actually try to live this out in their offices. The Democrat Party embraces all 5 of the non-negotiables, although some of their candidates don’t make their positions known loudly and proudly.

We Catholics (and ALL Americans, including those Democrats “left behind” by the radical left element in their own party) need to get more involved on a local and state level and FORCE the party to move in the direction we want it to go in. As a Catholic and also a conservative, I recognize that I cannot just sit here and observe any more, I MUST participate on a deeper level. Opting out by voting 3rd party removes my effort from the race; I have just put myself into the spectator stands.

This is OUR government and these are OUR representatives. There’s no option but to take what we have to work with and improve it. That’s my opinion and that’s my action plan.
 
Anyway, I’m not inclinded to stay on a bad vessel going nowhere when so little good can come of doing so in my home state. My choice between Republican and Democrat used to be a lot more about the good that each was trying to accomplish, but I’ve gotten to the point that it seems more about the bad that each is trying to let people get away with. I can’t get behind that.
This is how I feel too. Four years ago, I held my nose and voted for John McCain. What was my reward? Obama won anyway, and the Republican party got the message they could nominate anybody they want, no matter what, and demonizing the Democrats would still get them lots of votes.

Not again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I’m voting third party.
 
Have you gotten involved beyond voting every 2 years? Of the two main political parties, we can work with the GOP; we can’t work with the Democrat Party. You know the reasons why: The GOP is pro-life, and many candidates actually try to live this out in their offices. The Democrat Party embraces all 5 of the non-negotiables, although some of their candidates don’t make their positions known loudly and proudly.

We Catholics (and ALL Americans, including those Democrats “left behind” by the radical left element in their own party) need to get more involved on a local and state level and FORCE the party to move in the direction we want it to go in. As a Catholic and also a conservative, I recognize that I cannot just sit here and observe any more, I MUST participate on a deeper level. Opting out by voting 3rd party removes my effort from the race; I have just put myself into the spectator stands.

This is OUR government and these are OUR representatives. There’s no option but to take what we have to work with and improve it. That’s my opinion and that’s my action plan.
It is also possible to vote for a Republican who isn’t on the ticket, but who you think would make a better president than Romney. Same idea.
 
I’m not saying that people have to vote Romney, I’m just pointing out that actually voting for Obama is like looking at a parent who is over their head in credit card debt and made a commitment a few years ago to try and get out of it, only to wind up getting even further in debt and telling them, you know what, don’t try and get someone else to help you, I can see that you are incapable of even helping the situation, but I think you should be left in charge of your families debt.
That is the thing. My feeling is that the undecided or unhappy voters are NOT lukewarm about politics, not at all! We’re hot to get a president to handle all the difficult stuff we have to handle, but cold on the two major candidates we have to choose from.

The two major parties know they’re in trouble. Say what you want about the physical world, but the political world is definitely going through a global climate change. Everybody sees it, but in the political realm at least no one really has any idea what to do about it. There have been political eras that were far more corrupt, but none where the politicians were left so naked and exposed. It makes life in a pre-revolutionary French court look like a cakewalk.
 
That is the thing. My feeling is that the undecided or unhappy voters are NOT lukewarm about politics, not at all! We’re hot to get a president to handle all the difficult stuff we have to handle, but cold on the two major candidates we have to choose from.

The two major parties know they’re in trouble. Say what you want about the physical world, but the political world is definitely going through a global climate change. Everybody sees it, but in the political realm at least no one really has any idea what to do about it. There have been political eras that were far more corrupt, but none where the politicians were left so naked and exposed. It makes life in a pre-revolutionary French court look like a cakewalk.
Like I said, I am not saying anything about people who are unecided/decide to vote 3rd party/decide to not vote. I am saying something about those who vote for Obama. I’m not sure why you are disagreeing with that?
 
Like I said, I am not saying anything about people who are unecided/decide to vote 3rd party/decide to not vote. I am saying something about those who vote for Obama. I’m not sure why you are disagreeing with that?
Sorry, I was just reiterating the options for those in the please-Lord-neither-of-these-two dilemma. Since the OP’s opinion is that to vote for Obama is to invite the wrath of God, I guess I thought that base was well-covered from the get-go!
 
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