Uh what about the part about his being a serial killer? Or that his step sister has THE filthiest mouth? Makes me think that a show about the friendly cannibals next door is up next.I’m a little regretful that shows like The Tudors and The Borgias contain sex and nudity and are therefore possible occasions of sin for me (and since the Catechism includes simulated sex in its description of pornography, I’m not sure if those shows meet that description), I have my qualms about watching them, even though I wish I could even just for their historical setting.
Even other series are quite interesting, such as Homeland and, despite myself, Dexter. In the case of Dexter, I have decided that the occasions of nudity are fairly rare and far between such that I do not have difficulty averting my eyes.
Neither Dexter’s being a serial killer or Debra’s filthy mouth are occasions of sin in my case since I don’t have the tendency to kill people or swear every third word. I can, however, appreciate the series simply for the character dynamics and conflicts involved, which is why the premise itself is interesting: a serial killer but with his own moral code. It is dark, for sure but it is not merely on that account to be shunned.Uh what about the part about his being a serial killer? Or that his step sister has THE filthiest mouth? Makes me think that a show about the friendly cannibals next door is up next.
No Catholic should EVER have to avert his eyes again.
Peace,
Ed
Whoa whoa Eddie, maybe you should back the heck up a few steps. You are passing some pretty harsh judgment for somebody who is supposed to be a follower of Christ. If I remember the bible correctly…and I’m pretty sure I do…I believe that Jesus himself hung out with prostitutes, crooks, and some other unsavory characters while the Pharisees (the Eds of their day) wanted to stone them. It was Jesus who said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.Two and a Half Men is sick, dirty and dirtier.
Big Bang Theory features fornication and even mentions masturbation as a “oh well, I’ll just do it” kind of thing. You are your brother’s keeper. And that one episode where the guys set up one of their friends with a prostitute?
Oh yeah. Let’s just keep the fornication and prostitutes appearing all over the place. Yeah, like that will lead to holiness.
Ed
Ed’s opinions are on the more extreme end; I read them as pretty much disallowing any portrayal of sin. This philosophy unfortunately, results in very bland stories as good writing thrives on conflict, and none is more basic than good vs. evil. Further, as I cited Dexter, we have a sociopath who has a conflict deep within himself. He is a serial killer which cannot be helped but he clearly wants to just not kill without some kind of moral code. The series is not glorifying his being a serial killer or justifying his code but is telling the story of a person deeply conflicted within himself as well as with his sister, lover (the Hannah arc was interesting to say the least) and captain.Whoa whoa Eddie, maybe you should back the heck up a few steps. You are passing some pretty harsh judgment for somebody who is supposed to be a follower of Christ. If I remember the bible correctly…and I’m pretty sure I do…I believe that Jesus himself hung out with prostitutes, crooks, and some other unsavory characters while the Pharisees (the Eds of their day) wanted to stone them. It was Jesus who said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Hate to break it to you, Eduardo, but you’re not without sin.
If you want to be a good Christian, maybe you should stop throwing stones at these shows and myself and learn what Jesus was about.
That’s almost funny. Sorry, not true. Human dignity requires human decency.Neither Dexter’s being a serial killer or Debra’s filthy mouth are occasions of sin in my case since I don’t have the tendency to kill people or swear every third word. I can, however, appreciate the series simply for the character dynamics and conflicts involved, which is why the premise itself is interesting: a serial killer but with his own moral code. It is dark, for sure but it is not merely on that account to be shunned.
Merely portraying evil does not constitute an endorsement of evil.
I’m a professional book editor and have written published fiction. The company I work for would never allow something like Dexter or Two and a Half Men to be published, and the same for the Catholic Writers Guild.Ed’s opinions are on the more extreme end; I read them as pretty much disallowing any portrayal of sin. This philosophy unfortunately, results in very bland stories as good writing thrives on conflict, and none is more basic than good vs. evil. Further, as I cited Dexter, we have a sociopath who has a conflict deep within himself. He is a serial killer which cannot be helped but he clearly wants to just not kill without some kind of moral code. The series is not glorifying his being a serial killer or justifying his code but is telling the story of a person deeply conflicted within himself as well as with his sister, lover (the Hannah arc was interesting to say the least) and captain.
As you can see, though, he condemned the series merely on its premise, a serial killer and his potty-mouthed sister. I usually take Ed’s opinions with a major grain of salt.
The fact that you have published fiction does not mean it is good fiction. The fact that you are a “professional” book “editor” means nothing without substantiation and elaboration. The fact that the Catholic Writers Guild does not publish something does not mean that it is not worth publishing.I’m a professional book editor and have written published fiction. The company I work for would never allow something like Dexter or Two and a Half Men to be published, and the same for the Catholic Writers Guild.
I know. That in itself does not make your fiction good fiction (although it may very well be; I haven’t read any of your work) or your own opinions the standard by which all writers should abide.I’m a professional book editor and have written published fiction.
Ed
You do not hold the Church accountable based on what you see on a TV series. Research is one thing, a TV series such as the Borgias is historical fiction with some true elements.I consider myself a devout Catholic and yes…I do watch Borgias, Dexter and Californication. To avoid these shows because of the subject matter may be necessary if you find that you are obsessed by them. I have found that I have become educated in areas that I previously was ignorant. I actually researched the Borgia family and learned of all of the corruption in the church. To be a good Catholic we must hold the Church accountable for all of her actions. If we do not …the Church shall never grow toward it’s goal of Gods Kingdom. I now pray more than ever for our Holy Father.
Substantiate where the Church condemns sex and nudity.One more thing…God created us in his image…naked. Nudity and sex are natural. Even if the church condemns it. Surely God is shaking His head. Marriage came way after creation. Sex is NATURAL. Stop making it evil. That’s just what Satan wants…we as humans fall so badly into this awful trap of guilt. God is Good. So is sex. It’s where we are created by God.
I did not say that I hold the Church accountable based on what I see on TV…I am saying that the church is corrupt and some of this is portrayed on TV. It is good to see these things in the light of the secular world as to correct the wrongdoings that have for so long been hidden by the Church. We as Catholics should defend the Church as to keep her pure. This means holding the Church accountable.You do not hold the Church accountable based on what you see on a TV series. Research is one thing, a TV series such as the Borgias is historical fiction with some true elements.
Catholic Teaching on Sexual MoralitySubstantiate where the Church condemns sex and nudity.
okay lets interject an interlude. There are bad shows and there are BAD shows. I watched star gate for YEARS liked the plots and the space ships and all that star trek stuff. Then 10 years after it started they deliberately showed what they thought of Christians. They were demeaning of all religious people (people of the book that covers all the big three) I believe the quote ran ~“they would not accept scientific truth if you proved it to them they are so completely brain washed” and on and on just in case you missed how stupid believers were the first time. The whole plot became about, not just how dumb religious people were, but how utterly lost we were to sanity.I hope not…Two and a Half Men and Big Bang Theory are my two favorite shows!!
I suppose it is accurate to note my obvious lack a enthusiasm for the USCCB. They have done to little and now its really too late. Yes I should wait and see which bishops you are referring to as there are many really good examples and great witnesses to the faith among them. How many openly betrayed there vows at “on human life” and apposed the Pope. There is a great story on Life site news about how they will face jail time to appose the HHS mandate and good on them. If they had stood with the Pope then we would not be here now. It is sad really. So many are being replaced with very orthodox younger bishops who love the faith and must now combat entrenched hierarchy in there own see who are so liberal it defies logic how they were ever made “ordinations director” or what have you. This scary time that we find ourselves in is due primarily to a lack of catechesis which unfortunately is the bishops primary duty as teacher. But this is a bit off topic and depressing.It’s amazing that non-theologians completely ignored what I posted about bishops. I guess some amateurs see themselves as knowing more than our bishops. Total lack of respect for the hierachy. Exactly why I’m thinking of joining Orthodoxy.
Jesus didn’t “hang out” with prostitutes because He was looking for entertainment or it was fun. It was to win souls.Whoa whoa Eddie, maybe you should back the heck up a few steps. You are passing some pretty harsh judgment for somebody who is supposed to be a follower of Christ. If I remember the bible correctly…and I’m pretty sure I do…I believe that Jesus himself hung out with prostitutes, crooks, and some other unsavory characters while the Pharisees (the Eds of their day) wanted to stone them. It was Jesus who said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Hate to break it to you, Eduardo, but you’re not without sin.
If you want to be a good Christian, maybe you should stop throwing stones at these shows and myself and learn what Jesus was about.
“Mortal sin?” I don’t think so. If these shows are affecting your life and causing you to do harm, that would be sin. So if it is detrimental in that it causes actions on your part that are wrong, stop watching.Is it a mortal sin to purposely watch television shows that are immoral? For example what if I actually enjoy watching watching “The Sopranos” and “The Borgias”. Both of these tv shows are highly immoral as they contain violence, sex, foul language, etc. I gave up watching “Boardwalk Empire” on HBO because it kept using God’s name in vain over and over and that really made me angry. Should we give up tv shows that are a detriment to our Christian life?
it would appear that their remains good reason to hope while some clergy are true!I suppose it is accurate to note my obvious lack a enthusiasm for the USCCB. They have done to little and now its really too late. Yes I should wait and see which bishops you are referring to as there are many really good examples and great witnesses to the faith among them. How many openly betrayed there vows at “on human life” and apposed the Pope. There is a great story on Life site news about how they will face jail time to appose the HHS mandate and good on them. If they had stood with the Pope then we would not be here now. It is sad really. So many are being replaced with very orthodox younger bishops who love the faith and must now combat entrenched hierarchy in there own see who are so liberal it defies logic how they were ever made “ordinations director” or what have you. This scary time that we find ourselves in is due primarily to a lack of catechesis which unfortunately is the bishops primary duty as teacher. But this is a bit off topic and depressing.