Is it sinful to tell jokes about President Obama?

[Cracker_Mom]

I consider myself a good Catholic and a good American. I am sick and tired of all the badmouthing of our elected president. I enjoy a good joke but the incredible meanness of some “holy and devout” Christians turns my stomach. Yes, I voted for the man because I felt he would be a better choice for the ENTIRE country. I am saddened by some of his policies, but anyone who can get this country out of the MESS that Bush got us into is okay in my book. I believe abortion is murder under any circumstances. I believe that using embryos for research is wrong. But War is wrong. Millions of people who can not get medical attention is wrong. What we as Catholics must do is become part of the solution, not bad mouth someone who has chosen to right some wrongs. It would be nice if our leadership all “saw the light” but Hey, this is the real world.

War is sometimes justified, abortion,never.
I think it’s a tragedy we have Obama as our President but you are correct that there is some reaction from Christians that goes beyond what is right & just.There’s surely a racial element to some of it as well.Which is sad.
We need to concentrate on Obama’s legitimate shortcomings & go forward.(Hopefully to elect a better man.)

 

[jc-servant]

Interesting to see people justify their actions by pointing to someone else’s faults, ie mean or insulting jokes are OK if we disapprove of the person for some reason or if someone else insulted a past president. The last time that I checked, 2 wrongs still don’t make something right.

We all have choices to make regarding our own path to holiness that have nothing to do with another person’s bad choices or beliefs. We can choose to do the RIGHT thing regardless of their actions or of the consequences. The catechism does address using evil means to reach what we believe to be a good end result and it says that it is not acceptable. Therefore, using insults or mean “jokes” to bring attention to a cause is NOT acceptable.

When the urge comes to repeat a mean joke or insult about anyone, why don’t we Catholics who should know better try saying a prayer for the recipient of our angry feelings instead. I’m sure that the Blessed Mother would smile upon us more than if she was listening to us tell demeaning or insulting “jokes.” I know that it is not easy because I used an entire Lenten season one year to “kill” a really obnoxious person I saw regularly at work with kindness and prayers. I had recognized that I was allowing her awful behavior to lead me in an occasion of sin.

God actually did send his amazing Grace upon us both and she had a “conversion” in her life that trickled into her behavior at work. God also showed me some things about myself during that process. God is good ALL of the time, unlike we mere mortals. Sometimes I picture Him patiently waiting for us to get out of the way and give Him space to work.

I’ve seen so much nasty, angry, mean things on this forum since the last election cycle started that I have purposefully not given the site to the person who I am sponsoring in RCIA this year. She has such a wonderful view of the church and its beauty that I’m loathe to expose her to such ugliness before Easter Vigil.

 

[rvgirl]

Yes, it is and you know why? Because you are surrounded by Catholics who support Obama and you don’t know it.

I am going through RCIA right now and I have sadly found out that some of the most unkind, judgemental people I have met in the church put politics before principles.

In RCIA, I commended our president for his work in salvaging our country. As a cradle Catholic returning to the church after many years, I was dumbfounded by the reaction. I was insulted, I was sneered at, and not spoken to after the RCIA by obvious Republican members of the group. Now, they whisper about me when I talk because I spoke out about who I voted for!

It was humilating and I was on the verge of tears. I thought about leaving but now it has made me stronger. When I see this type of slamming of Catholics who vote a different way, I realize how many are not Catholics at all - but use the political weapon as a way to judge another’s relationship with Christ. If the stand of being “pro-life” only includes fighting against abortion and being cruel to others who may fight against the war or other issues, that is appalling.

There is no place in the Bible that says a person has to vote Republican to love Jesus. Additionally, if this kind of joking and cruel behavior towards someone who votes a particular way is what the Catholic Church is about, then we are stuck in generalities, which is discrimination. One of the 10 Commandments is to not falsely judge another.

Don’t assume that just because a person is a Democrat they support all the horrible things that conservatives say they do. Additionally, politicians are never going to be 100% free of sin. You can’t get Jesus to run for the American Presidency. Presidents will order killing in some capacity whether it is through war, torture, the death penalty, euthansia, abortion, or greed. My “President” is Jesus - so I am not going to hate fellow Catholics because of the way they vote for the president.

In fact, when I was told to “vote with my concious”, I did. I voted against what I consider to be the issues that God assigns each of us to work to change. George Bush and John McCain both supported the Iraq war, the death penalty, torture, cutting social programs to help the poor, and Bush truly hurt our country.

The Pope condemns the war! Yet we aren’t allowed to do that in public because the abortion issue has completely taken over religon and slams the door against Democrats who seek God and who will be instrumental in changing abortion laws.

I will work with other Democrats to change their opinions on abortion but I will not condemn Republicans who treat me as if I have no right to be a Catholic by the way I vote.

Additionally, be careful in your judgements because American political issues, such as abortion, are not who we are as Catholics. In history, religious people have killed each other for what they believe is “right”. You better make darn sure you talk to that person about what they stand for before you judge them. That is what the Pope asks us to do instead of war.

We are all put on this earth to end injustice in some form. Fighting against abortion is good and noble but if it becomes myopic - to the point that all other issues such as the poor, fthe war, bigotry, lack of health care for people, the right to gainful employment to feed families, all fall from our immediate focus AND causes blatent hostility towards each other for their political preference, then it ceases to be a church. It becomes an anti-abortion organization.

Fifty two percent of all Catholics voted for Obama. Be careful who you insult if you intend to call yourself a Christian. Don’t assume you know God so well that you can say who He loves and who He doesn’t.

 

[EspositoJoe]

I am sick and tired of all the badmouthing of our elected president.

Were you equally bothered by all the slander against our preceding elected president? Or just Obama?

 

[zigli]

For eons it seems as though we repeat jokes about famous people, especially those we do not care for.

I was sorely disappointed in his election and find ‘jokes’ about him hold some truth, but am concerned about repeating them.

What is the Church’s stance on whether these are sinful?

My Friend:

Your question in itself is a “joke” however, let me just say this to you;
Jesus said “Do not do onto others what you wouldn’t want others to do onto you” That said, you decide weither it is a sin or not to make jokes about President Obama.

 

[Saralinda]

Yes, I am equally offended by the horrible things democrats say about republicans. This country was founded on the idea of free speech as a good thing. I wasn’t condemning either party, just the hateful speech. Some one on this forum asked “What would Jesus do?” I think he would respect a person’s right to speak, but ask US to speak the truth without judging another.

 

[pnewton]

What is the Church’s stance on whether these are sinful?

You probably need to ignore most of the stuff on the thread. Many people have an opinion but few are actually giving you what you asked for, that is the Church’s opinions. As for the rest, they have zero authority to lay an extra burden, especially that of sin upon anyone apart from what the Church teaches. That practice was condemned by Christ.

This is not the politics thread. Whether you like, voted for, or kissed Obama should have no bearing on the question the OP asked. Most of this stuff needs to go back to the Politics Forum.

 

[ez3714]

Like it or not. I think Acts 23:5 applies.

 

[csperez]

Although I would be highly entertained to discover that Clement X or some such Pope had written a Catholic document on jokes (I suggest the title Contra jocationes), I am aware of no official teaching.

The Catholic rule, as far as I know, is that we must always be charitable. We ought not assume the worst in people, and we ought not use jokes to erode our capacity for charity. However, a claim (or a joke) about something that’s true, that’s important, and that’s in the public arena can never be uncharitable (as far as I can think). If that sounds like a tricky principle to apply in particular circumstances, that’s because it is. The easiest thing to do in practical conditions would probably be to ask yourself the old chestnut, “What would Jesus do?”

For myself, I imagine it would be hard to say anything uncharitable about President Obama at this point. Once a man’s reopened overseas abortion funding, attacked the conscience clause, given large sums of money to harvest and kill millions of human embryos for Mengelian-style experimentation, and announced his intention to destroy all abortion restrictions of every sort nationwide via FOCA… honestly, how could you possibly make a joke that makes him seem any worse or more evil than he actually is?

 

[deb1]

Like it or not. I think Acts 23:5 applies.

Paul says that ‘it is written that you shall not curse a ruler of your people.’ He is speaking to Jewish people about a Jewish high priest. Just in case anyone is curious about the reference

I do not think that jokes are the same as curses.

 

[rvgirl]

You probably need to ignore most of the stuff on the thread. Many people have an opinion but few are actually giving you what you asked for, that is the Church’s opinions. As for the rest, they have zero authority to lay an extra burden, especially that of sin upon anyone apart from what the Church teaches. That practice was condemned by Christ.

This is not the politics thread. Whether you like, voted for, or kissed Obama should have no bearing on the question the OP asked. Most of this stuff needs to go back to the Politics Forum.

The question was whether it was okay to tell jokes about Obama! That’s political! Send the original question back to the political forum because it deals with politicians. Don’t tell her to ignore people’s posts here. She asked a question about a political candidate she wants to laugh at, so she’s going to get an answer from all sides.

I hardly think her real intention was to see if laughing at the president was sinful according to the church. I think she is looking at for permission to do so.

 

[Wowbagger]

You know, I feel like the question’s been pretty well answered, so, at this point, if we drift a little further off topic, I’m not going to feel bad about it.

We are all put on this earth to end injustice in some form. Fighting against abortion is good and noble but if it becomes myopic - to the point that all other issues such as the poor, fthe war, bigotry, lack of health care for people, the right to gainful employment to feed families, all fall from our immediate focus AND causes blatent hostility towards each other for their political preference, then it ceases to be a church. It becomes an anti-abortion organization.

I was inclined at first to dismiss rvgirl’s post out of hand; we’ve all been over the arguments a hundred times before, and my throwing in and pointing out logical errors is not going to bring anybody any closer to the truth. (However, to those who do somehow still think that voting for then-Sen. Obama was morally acceptable, I highly recommend Dr. Stephen Heaney’s wonderful 2000 article in Human Life Review: “Pro-Life Voting: More Than a Hill of Beans.”)

However, the above quoted section caught my eye. C.S. Lewis talked about this in Mere Christianity: there is a risk in becoming enamored of a cause. There is a risk of elevating that cause above the Church, eventually coming to support the Church only because it supports the Cause and not the other way around. No doubt it’s something we pro-lifers must continue to struggle with–especially with an issue so big that it seems like “going overboard” on it would be totally impossible.

I dunno. That seemed more profound when I first thought it. Maybe I shouldn’t be online at 5:30 in the morning.

This being said, “the poor, the war, bigotry, lack of health care for people, the right to gainful employment to feed families,” taken separately or even as a combined whole, are not even remotely proportionate issues to the immensity of abortion. I find it hard to understand how a Catholic justifies such odd priorities. But I don’t want to start a fight, so I’ll go to bed instead.

 

[ez3714]

Paul says that ‘it is written that you shall not curse a ruler of your people.’ He is speaking to Jewish people about a Jewish high priest. Just in case anyone is curious about the reference

I do not think that jokes are the same as curses.

Holding in public contempt one who leads your nation (and whom the Bible says God placed there)? I knew before he was elected that I’d have to hold my tongue. Zero jokes, zero disrespect…even if I’d vote for him the same day they played an outdoor hockey game “down there.”

If I wanted to pick and choose which verses I wanted to obey, I’d stay Protestant.

 

[deb1]

Holding in public contempt one who leads your nation (and whom the Bible says God placed there)? I knew before he was elected that I’d have to hold my tongue. Zero jokes, zero disrespect…even if I’d vote for him the same day they played an outdoor hockey game “down there.”

If I wanted to pick and choose which verses I wanted to obey, I’d stay Protestant.

Jokes are not neccesarily showing contempt. Humor is not bad. Could a joke be disrepectful? Of course, but that doesn’t mean that all humor about Obama is wrong anymore then all humor about Bush was wrong.

 

[pnewton]

I hardly think her real intention was to see if laughing at the president was sinful according to the church.

For the English-impaired:

The only question that was in the original post was:

What is the Church’s stance on whether these are sinful?

No this is not in the title as the title is used as a synopsis which is expanded in the first post. But fine, you Obama supporters want to play sola scriptura, where in the Bible does it say it is sinful to tell jokes about the Bible???

I have shown the Church’s stance and not one person who is trying to put the onus of sin on this action has quoted a single Church statement to support themselves. We can swap ignorance and opinions all day long. What does the Church say? What does the Bible say?

Yes, I think those who post an opinion without any reason or support should be ignored. Moral theology is not whatever we want it to be.

 

[Monty_Arch]

Obama is a joke.:whacky:

 

[Aldarion]

Unfortunately, today it is nearly impossible to carry out a reasoned, mature, and calm conversation with someone under the age of 25 that has a differing opinion on politics. Jokes may be the best way to get a tough point across and it not bein immediately and angrily rejected by someone else.

 

[AHapka]

We are all put on this earth to end injustice in some form. Fighting against abortion is good and noble but if it becomes myopic - to the point that all other issues such as the poor, fthe war, bigotry, lack of health care for people, the right to gainful employment to feed families, all fall from our immediate focus AND causes blatent hostility towards each other for their political preference, then it ceases to be a church. It becomes an anti-abortion organization.

I hear what you are saying, but it also seems to me that you are implying that Republicans/conservatives are against those things.

Those of us who are conservative are not bigots. President Bush had more minorities in his cabinet the President Clinton did. But yet Clinton was referred to as the “black President.”

We would like everyone to have health care. But don’t believe that the government should be the one to do it. The government should stay as far away from health care as possible. Encourage businesses to provide healthcare via tax code, as well as helping individuals who have to purchase it themselves via the tax code. I am personally of the opinion that it is shocking that many liberals complain about the Patriot Act invading the rights of Americans but then want the government to get involved in their health care via a form of national health care???

It is easily proven that conservatives care more about the poor then liberals do. Many studies have proven that conservatives donate more to charities then liberals do. Again, conservatives don’t think that it’s the governments job to save people. I give money to the Church so that the Church can save people and fund charities like St. Vincent DePaul that save people without going through a government bureaucracy.

Conservatives are not against the right to gainful employment. Just because someone has money and success does not mean that it should be taken away from them and given to others. There have been rich saints, that does not make them bad people. St. Edward was a wealthy king. Also, when was the last time a poor person gave you a job? Sorry, but rich people do fulfill a role in society. And a good chunk of them do a lot of charitable giving.

I personally didn’t become myopic about abortion to the point that these other issues “fall from our immediate focus.” I simply recognized that McCain and Palin would have done a better job of handling and righting these issues with conservative values then President Obama will do.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Me and my family haven’t found one thing funny about the moral peril this man’s soul is in; the scandal and indecent policies he is aggressively promoting; or the threat his brand of leadership is posing to the whole human race presently. Aren’t jokes supposed to make us laugh?? All we seem to be doing these days is crying for God’s Mercy!

 

[bkropp]

The catechism does talk about submission to civil authority except for when that authority is contrary to God’s laws. See 2238-2246.

So I think we can infer from this that we ought to treat those in authority with respect. I think it is more of a virtue issue than a sin issue. I think we, also, that we ought to stay away from media that makes it a habit (in the name of entertainment ie. Sean Hannity) of being disrespectful to our president while claiming to be patriotic. The same could be said about Michael Savage. No wait, he seems to do it out of hatred. Not to mention, most of these conservative media leaders are pro death penalty. As you can see I am a hipocrite because I do listen to these men, but I am trying to cut back. Second paragraph is all my opinion, and not necessarily the Church’s.