Is it sinful to vote Democrat?

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Today’s modern liberalism, as perpetrated by the leadership of the democratic party, which is little more than a pawn of MoveOn.org, is a bastion of utilitarianism, socialistic utopianism, and many of the very things that the Church has been railing against for the last 2,000 years. True liberalism has nothing to do with today’s Democratic Party. What are the things that today’s Democratic Party hold as social ideals:

Same Sex Marriage
Abortion
Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Euthanasia
Usurpation of the Constitution by activist judges who answer to no one
Party line obstructionism

The Republicans are also guilty of the last one, I am not giving the RNC a pass, but the latest fiasco regarding judicial nominees the DNC has shown its cards. They are holding judges, and indeed the Senate altogether, hostage. They cannot admit that their ideology is outside the mainstream of American morality. IMHBAO, the two party system is killing America. There is no party that accurately represents the Catholic worldview.
 
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Scott_Lafrance:
There is no party that accurately represents the Catholic worldview.
I think it’s pretty obvious that there is no single “Catholic worldview.”

Consider what happens on this forum when somebody suggests that American Catholics should press their government to treat the Catholic social justice agenda, as articulated by Pope John Paul II (and as likely emphasized by Benedict XVI) seriously. I have rarely seen so much frantic backfilling and excuse-making – from folks who firmly believe that their views represent the “Catholic worldview.”

You cited several “modern liberal” positions:

Same Sex Marriage
Abortion
Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Euthanasia
Usurpation of the Constitution by activist judges who answer to no one
Party line obstructionism

The last of these you acknowledged isn’t a “liberal” failing – it’s a characteristic of party politics. I certainly agree with that; both parties play this game.

The penultimate item on the list – “activist judges” - I find amusing, because, frankly, opposition to it comes and goes, in both parties, depending on what positions the “activist” judges hold. There are certainly folks – true strict constructionists, libertarians – who are consistent in their arguments about courts…but those folks are relatively rare.

The other four…Well, I agree with you, and the Church, on all of them – and I consider myself a liberal, as much as I consider myself a conservative – because in the end, these are silly labels, arbitrary agglomerations of positions that, in the final analysis, don’t describe very many individuals’ mix of views.

Where I disagree with a lot of people on this forum, is when these folks somehow try to equate military adventurism, or unchecked corporate capitalism, with Catholic morality. I part company with them when they try to paper over the Church’s clear teaching on social justice issues, when they try to square that teaching with American corporate plunder in the Third World, when they make excuses for Washington’s indifference to public health issues, when they declare that poverty in America is, ipso facto, the fault of those who are impoverished. I see a great deal of intellectual dishonesty here, a refusal to deal with real issues, a very head-in-the-sand approach to policy.

As a result, I don’t post much here. There doesn’t seem to be much point, frankly. Real discussion rarely ensues; you either agree with the majority, simplistic, view, or you are beaten down by the hordes of folks posting, “Right on!” in reply to those who push the (Republican) party line.

And for what it’s worth, “liberalism is a sin” pretty much sums it all up. No need to think. Nice tight little slogan.

No, I haven’t read the book – nor will I. Perhaps if you all had argued, “liberalism creates occasions of sin” you might have persuaded me – there might be a case there. But you haven’t argued that liberalism leads to sins – you’ve argued that liberalism is a sin. That’s stupid.

I might just as well argue that “conservatism is a sin,” because conservatism promotes capitalism, and capitalism unchecked clearly and demonstrably leads to widespread abuse of workers by employers. There’s ample history on this; no intelligent person would even try to refute it. But I wouldn’t make that “conservatism is a sin” argument, because I recognize that it’s silly and specious – as is the “liberalism is a sin” argument.
 
I did not realized that it is sinfull to vote for a canidate who supported pro-choice. I only voted for Kerry in the 2004 elections because I went along with the “anyone but Bush” since I was strongly against Bush’s war in Iraq.
 
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NWUArmyROTC:
I probably won’t be voting for President in '08 since it looks like the Republicans will nominate a pro-choicer, cannot vote for that.
It’s still 2005 and we are predicting 2008 with certainty? I don’t think a Guiliani can receive the nomination. The grassroots would never support that.

All that being said, IF a pro-choicer is nominated, I will be giving my vote to the Constitution Party candidate.
 
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cathologos:
I might just as well argue that “conservatism is a sin,” because conservatism promotes capitalism, and capitalism unchecked clearly and demonstrably leads to widespread abuse of workers by employers. There’s ample history on this; no intelligent person would even try to refute it. But I wouldn’t make that “conservatism is a sin” argument, because I recognize that it’s silly and specious – as is the “liberalism is a sin” argument.
Liberalism, in its strictest sense, is a sin because it is the mother of all heresy, which is a sin against divine jurisprudence. Liberalism is the triumpth of the individual over God, rather than submission to divinely appointed authority. I am speaking of liberalism in the theological sense, not the political sense, because as you indicated, they are adolescent labels that really don’t mean much. Here are the earmarks of liberalism, and for a practicing, devoted Catholic, their offense against God is self-evident.:

  1. *]The sovereignty of individual independence over divine authority.
    *]The sovereignty of society over that which does not proceed from itself.
    *]Civil sovereignty in the right of the people to enact their own laws independent from divine influence and rather based on popular consesus and majority rule.
    *]Unrestrained freedom of thought in politics, expression, and morality. Unrestrained liberty of the press.

    All of these principles of liberalism reiterate the individuals independence from God’ influence and sovereignty. It reduces societal expression to rationalism, relativiesm, and situation ethics. Human Reasoning usurps Divine Prerogative. As s result, society experiences across-the-board secularization, which denies divine influence is any concern of public or private life. In effect, it is social atheism.

    As a doctinal ideology, liberalism is a sin against Divine Jurisprudence. As catholics we know that “All power in heaven and one earth” has been given to Jesus. Liberalism rejects this. As a practive ideology, it is a sin as it violates all of the commandments, because it is rooted in the dogmatic application of individual independence from God’s authority. It is violation of Christian doctrine, because it validates and authorizes all infractions against God’s sovereignty.
 
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ImperialPhoenix:
I did not realized that it is sinfull to vote for a canidate who supported pro-choice. I only voted for Kerry in the 2004 elections because I went along with the “anyone but Bush” since I was strongly against Bush’s war in Iraq.
Now you know better. I bet you abortionists kill a lot more people than the soldiers in the current unjust war in the Middle East.

A friend said something about two weeks ago that really made me stop and think: Republicans talk about limited government but they spend a lot of money, too. Just look at all the $ that’s going to the military. That could be going to fund mental institutions (there aren’t enough these days), among many other things. Now I’m voting Constitution or the one DH wanted me to vote for…I forget the name but the candidate was Michael Badnarik.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne
 
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coralewisjr:
Now you know better. I bet you abortionists kill a lot more people than the soldiers in the current unjust war in the Middle East.

A friend said something about two weeks ago that really made me stop and think: Republicans talk about limited government but they spend a lot of money, too. Just look at all the $ that’s going to the military. That could be going to fund mental institutions (there aren’t enough these days), among many other things. Now I’m voting Constitution or the one DH wanted me to vote for…I forget the name but the candidate was Michael Badnarik.

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne
Baradnik is a Libertarian. Peroutka is Constitution Party.
 
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coralewisjr:
Now you know better. I bet you abortionists kill a lot more people than the soldiers in the current unjust war in the Middle East.
Actualy, I am a convinced pro-lifer. I was literaly grosed out at seeing one of the pro-life pamphlets that made me change my opinions.
 
Here’s the latest from the House of Representatives:

THE HOUSE VOTES Ramesh Ponnuru

Expanded funding for research that kills human embryos passes 238-194–well short of a veto-proof supermajority. Republicans voted 180-50 for the pro-life, anti-subsidy position. Democrats voted 188-14 the other way.

nationalreview.com/thecorner/05_05_22_corner-archive.asp#064256

RE: THE HOUSE VOTES - FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 204 K. J. Lopez

clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll204.xml

This bottom one should make INTERESTING READING. Slightly over 78% of the REPUBLICANS in the House of Representatives VOTED AGAINST the Bill to EXPAND Funding for Research on Embryonic Stem Cells. At the same time, Slightly over 90% of DEMOCRATS in the House of Representatives VOTED FOR the Bill to EXPAND Funding for Research on Fetal Stem Cells.

The Church has declared Embryonic/Fetal Stem Cell Research to be Immoral and against God’s Laws, because Pre-born Babies MUST be killed in order for the Stem Cells to be “Harvested”.

So, I can safely say that 180 REPUBLICANS VOTED in a manner consistent with the Teachings of the Church, while ONLY 14 DEMOCRATS DID. The other 188 DEMOCRATS were voted with the ABORTION ACTIVISTS, hoping against hope that they could legitimize our country’s slaughter of 46 million Babies since 1973!

I know that many who read this aren’t going to like this, but please don’t vote for ANYONE, REPUBLICAN or DEMOCRAT, who voted for this Satanic Measure, unless he or she publicly expresses repentence and a desire to change. Please find someone else to vote for, and, if he or she seems to be worthwhile, compaign for him or her.

It’s time we voted our morals, an let the politicians know that’s what we were doing.

May God richly bless those who act to save His Little Ones. Michael
 
Imperialphoenix:

Now you do, and it’s not “Pro-Choice” as if the woman and the Abortionist are trying to CHOOSE what kind of topping to order on their Pizza. In the most Neutral languange, it’s “Pro-Abortion”, since the people who claim to be Pro-Choice" have never so much as filed an Amicus Curae Brief on behalf of CHINESE WOMEN fleeing the People’s Republic of China because of their policy of FORCED ABORTIONS. In fact, in one case, NARAL filed the Amicus Curae NOT on behalf of the woman who was seeking refugee status, but on behalf of the State Dept. and the Government of the PRC which wanted to deny her request for asylum and force her to go to prison and have the Abortion!
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ImperialPhoenix:
I did not realized that it is sinfull to vote for a canidate who supported pro-choice. I only voted for Kerry in the 2004 elections because I went along with the “anyone but Bush” since I was strongly against Bush’s war in Iraq.
So. please, it’s NOT “Pro-Choice”. If it were, NARAL and NOW would both have filed FOR the REFUGE, NOT AGAINST HER!

Imperial Phoenix, our country has slaughtered some 46 million Children since 1973. These children weren’t any any more or less human in their essential natures than you or I.

ImperialPhoenix, what made you think that any “Lie” you believe Bush said in Iraq about WMD in order to justify overthrowing a dictator who tortured children in front of their parents was worse than supporting this?

If you wish an intelligent conversation on Iraq, I also post on a ME forum - I haven’t done as much lately, because I spend so much time here. I can give you the information on the forum and the rules - It’s a Moderated Secular forum. Send me a PM and I’ll send you the URL, etc… But, I’m NOT discussing the Iraq War or its aftermath here.

ImperialPhoenix, unless you were in a liberal parish, it would been hard to know that the the Democratric Party Platform, as expressed by Sen. Keary opposed Church teaching NOT just on Abortion, but also on Embryonic/Fetal Stem Cell Research, Gay Marraige and possibly Euthanasia and Human Cloning. (Sen. Keary was continually evasive on the last two)

Would you have been willing to accept these abominations as well in order to get “Anything but Bush”?

These are a LOT to overlook because you’re doing “Anything but Bush”. Our choices for President need to be based on something better than that. The same holds for any political office we vote for.

May God richly bless those who act to save His Little Ones. Michael
 
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ImperialPhoenix:
I have heard in the news that Bush plans to veto that bill
You have heard correctly.

Both houses will pass this bill.

the President will VETO the bill

Both Houses will sustain the Veto.

We will be provided with what I’ve Linked for you, a List of those Senators and Rpresentatives (now linked) who voted for and against the bill.

Someone who voted FOR the bill is PRO-ABORTION.

Someone who voted AGAINST it can be said to be PRO-LIFE.

I thought it was interesting that over 90% of the Democrats voted FOR it!

I was born and raised a Democrat. I know someone who’s up in the party. I’m VERY disappointed at the party I once called “home”. And, the Republicans didn’t do much better yesterday…

Goodnight.

May God bless those who act to save His Little Ones. Michael
 
Traditional Ang:
Imperial Phoenix, our country has slaughtered some 46 million Children since 1973. These children weren’t any any more or less human in their essential natures than you or I.
I never realized how many children have been killed since the Supreme Court ruling in 1973. After reading that just makes me want to move more to the Culture of Life.
ImperialPhoenix, what made you think that any “Lie” you believe Bush said in Iraq about WMD in order to justify overthrowing a dictator who tortured children in front of their parents was worse than supporting this?
Mainly I was bombarded with liberal media that made me beleve in the “lies”. I never even heard about the dictator tortureing children in front of their parents untill now :eek:.
ImperialPhoenix, unless you were in a liberal parish, it would been hard to know that the the Democratric Party Platform, as expressed by Sen. Keary opposed Church teaching NOT just on Abortion, but also on Embryonic/Fetal Stem Cell Research, Gay Marraige and possibly Euthanasia and Human Cloning. (Sen. Keary was continually evasive on the last two)
I come from a liberal state. I never realized untill now that Kerry wanted to push forward Human Cloning, which I am strongly against.
Would you have been willing to accept these abominations as well in order to get “Anything but Bush”?
I would not accept any of the abominations that were listed. Though it would also mean accepting Bush, which I am willing to do.
Our choices for President need to be based on something better than that. The same holds for any political office we vote for.
For the future elections, are there any guides to educate the voters on which to decide to vote for? Since I dont wish to make a repeat of the “Anyone but Bush”.
 
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buffalo:
Aww c’mon. Do I have to do this again? Liberalism is a Sin

Read the whole book and then we can discuss it. Point out what you disagree with.
if the author of this book is a commendable authority, can we also hear some comments on the merits of his views pertaining to the Jews?
 
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katherine2:
if the author of this book is a commendable authority, can we also hear some comments on the merits of his views pertaining to the Jews?
Got any quotes to discuss?
 
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cathologos:
This is idiocy – and not just random idiocy, it’s also bigoted and mean-spirited.
Oh please.

Liberalism is bigoted and mean spirited.

Bigoted against taxpayers. Liberal ideas usually lead to higher taxes and they don’t care if you don’t got the money to pay them, just ask the taxpayer to bend over again.

Bigoted against the unborn. They simply dehumanize them.

Bigoted against those who practice their faith. Or do you wanna be a pharmacist under the reign of Governor Rod Nazivich when he says your moral opposition to RU486 is illegal?

Bigoted against those who cannot speak for themselves. HELLO TERRI SCHIAVO! Remember how they dehumanized her?

I could go on, but I’ve made my point. Liberalism is clearly a mental condition since none of the above is rational or sane or even moral.
 
i tend to vote pro-life regardless of the canidate. now, if both of the canidates are complete morons, i won’t vote at all. 😛
 
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