Is it still fornication if there's no intercourse?

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Nessie86

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After a discussion among friends came to no general conclusion, I thought I’d ask the question here.

If two people commit to NOT having sexual intercourse before marriage, but engage in other sexual acts, is this still considered fornication? More importantly, is this a mortal sin? Should one engaging in such behavior receive the Eucharist? What if such behavior is habitual, does that in any way affect the gravity of the sin?

(name removed by moderator)ut is welcome, especially if it is backed up by scripture, the CCC, etc.

Thanks!
 
To answer your question:
  1. No, it isn’t fornication.
  2. Yes, it can constitute a mortal sin and usually does, one that MUST be confessed and absolved.
  3. No person in the state of mortal sin should partake of the Eucharist. I’d like to encourage whoever is involved in this behavior to return to Mother Church through her very generous forgiveness.
  4. Don’t know how this behavior could be habitual unless one lets it be.
Sorry, no Scriptural cites or anything else. If you’re asking about yourself, you just need to get your act together.
 
Nessie86 said:
After a discussion among friends came to no general conclusion, I thought I’d ask the question here.

If two people commit to NOT having sexual intercourse before marriage, but engage in other sexual acts, is this still considered fornication? More importantly, is this a mortal sin? Should one engaging in such behavior receive the Eucharist? What if such behavior is habitual, does that in any way affect the gravity of the sin?

(name removed by moderator)ut is welcome, especially if it is backed up by scripture, the CCC, etc.

Thanks!
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God gave us the gift of our sexuality to be used within the context of a covenantal marriage. Anything outside of that is a misuse of that gift and equates to sin. Yes, one may be in the state of mortal sin and should refrain from the Eucharist until he/she goes to confession especially if this is a habitual sin. (While this could diminish the culpability it still needs to be addressed.)

Whether you call it fornication, pornography, adultery, masturbation or whatever, if it is not an act of conjugal love open to children in the context of marriage it is potentially a mortal sin and one should be concerned for their spiritual state.

God Bless…teachccd 🙂
 
jdnrite01 said:
To answer your question:
  1. No, it isn’t fornication.
  2. Yes, it can constitute a mortal sin and usually does, one that MUST be confessed and absolved.
  3. No person in the state of mortal sin should partake of the Eucharist. I’d like to encourage whoever is involved in this behavior to return to Mother Church through her very generous forgiveness.
  4. Don’t know how this behavior could be habitual unless one lets it be.
Sorry, no Scriptural cites or anything else. If you’re asking about yourself, you just need to get your act together.
Click to expand...
Very well said!! 👍
 
Teachccd:

Thank you for your comment, I think that sooner or later we will make an impact on the world! God speed.
 
It’s not fornication but it could be a form of adultery as Christ mentions during his Sermon on the Mount when he submits that looking at woman with lust lands one into this grave sin. So if one is not only looking at said woman, but also engaging in physical activities that are a manifestation of the accompanying lust, then one has to truly examine one’s conscience. This is not a question of how far is too far, but rather how ordered or disordered is one’s will with regard to sexuality and its place in the relationship at this point in time?
 
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut so far!

I am asking this not just for my benefit, of course. I am fairly well versed in Theology of the Body and much else besides, and I know this is a serious sin, but being new to Catholicism, I am trying to fit everything into Catholic theology, etc.

I want to point out that many young people out there believe that as long as you’re not having sex, it’s ok to do! This is a very common misconception. I really wish more parents would be clear with their children and explain all of this in the context of our beautiful Catholic faith!!!

Here’s another question to add, which also applies to habitual sin in general, I suppose: Should one go to confession if one knows that he/she will possibly/probably commit the sin again, more out of habit than anything? Because if it’s a mortal sin especially, one would almost certainly need to receive the Eucharist to be able to conquer it, and one would need to go to confession first. But, would it be, what is that called, a presumption of grace, if one knows that in all likelihood it will happen again?

Thanks!

P.s. In response to the suggestion that this couldn’t be a habitual practice, I beg to differ. Many people struggle with habitual sexual sin, particularly masturbation, which can easily be carried over in the context of a relationship. Two elements that can make that even more true is if the struggle with sexual sin is deeply rooted in some childhood experience(s), such as molestation (which, yes, can trigger sexual sin in a person), or if a person is craving love, having not received it adequately from, say, parents.
 
Sorry, pal, but I think you’re speaking from experience. I don’t know who you are, but I will pray for you anyway. Please contact your parish priest; he’s best suited to help you with all of your problems. Go with God!
 
Um, does whether or not I’m speaking from experience really matter? You don’t know me, or my situation. I am asking these questions because I have been talking about this with other friends of mine and I am trying to find some answers, from a Catholic perspective. Even if I am speaking from experience, which, yes, I am, that doesn’t mean I am still doing it. As I said, I know it’s wrong, and as a new Catholic, I am trying to fit all of this into Catholic theology, both for myself, and for others. As I said, many young people don’t believe “fooling around” is a sin at all if you’re not even having sex; I never asked that, I only asked if it was a mortal sin, one that should prevent you from receiving the Eucharist (as proof that I’m not asking just for me, I can’t receive anyways, because I haven’t yet entered the Church: if I was asking this all just for myself, why would that part matter?). I did not come into this with any intention of deception, I was just trying to keep the conversation objective. As far as contacting my priest, well, I’m not really in a position to breach the topic with him, because I haven’t gone to my first confession yet, still being in RCIA, and that’s basically what it would amount to, a confession. Anyways, I had hoped to get more in the way of answers than accusations, but, there it is. Thanks for the prayers, anyways. We are all in need of prayer.
 
Nessie, it’s a good question, and thank you for bringing it up.
I’ve been Catholic most of my life, and have a copy of the CCC,
I’m still not able to give people a really straight answer on this.
What’s been said already is all I know either. I’ve got the feeling
that people shouldn’t even be kissing before marriage, but I can’t
say that I’m right about that either.
 
Nessie86:

I didn’t mean to be harsh with you, but you’ve raised issues which have to be resolved. I’m elated that you’re joining our faith, and I will pray for you on a daily basis! I hope that you will pray for me also!
 
I prematurely pushed the “submit” button before I was finished with my comment. We’ve all been there; we’ve been through what you and your friends are going through. I know, it is very difficult, and believe me, I am probably the last person on Earth who should be critical.

I think that the very fact that you sought information here is great, and I hope and pray that your transition to Catholicism goes without issue. In a way, I envy you. After completion of your preparation to enter the faith, your soul will be a white sheet, something I haven’t seen in a long time, unfortunately.

Since you are a new Catholic, I want to reiterate something that I hinted about in a previous comment. They say (although I’m not really sure who “they” are!) that Confession is good for the soul. It is. Make frequent use of the forgiveness of God. It is free for the asking.
 
Your questions have been answered, but I wanted to give you the CCC links in my signature. Search through it if you want a more lengthy answer. 🙂
 
Technically, it’s not fornication. What it is, is creating a near occasion of sin.

If a couple intends to wait until marriage, then stimulating each other to the point of desiring intercourse is, well, rude. Plus it creates a much stronger temptation than a chaste kiss does. It’s creating that temptation that is the near occasion of sin. It’s putting yourself into the position where sin is “crouching at the door.” It makes it much harder to master one’s self.

You asked, about confessing, “But, would it be, what is that called, a presumption of grace, if one knows that in all likelihood it will happen again?”

It’s the sin of presumption when you confess a sin, intending to do it again. That’s basically telling God you were and are not repentant. If you do *not *intend to repeat it, but are afraid the habit - or addiction - will be too strong for you, you’re not committing the sin of presumption.

In fact, that’s a really good reason to go to confession weekly, because the Sacrament will give you graces to help you fight it. (I should take my own advice! I have a problem with gluttony… 😊)

God bless you,

Ruthie
 
Nessie86 said:
After a discussion among friends came to no general conclusion, I thought I’d ask the question here.

If two people commit to NOT having sexual intercourse before marriage, but engage in other sexual acts, is this still considered fornication? More importantly, is this a mortal sin? Should one engaging in such behavior receive the Eucharist? What if such behavior is habitual, does that in any way affect the gravity of the sin?

(name removed by moderator)ut is welcome, especially if it is backed up by scripture, the CCC, etc.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Some things that need to be pointed out. Sex is for marriage and marriage only. Within a marriage we must be aware that sex is given to us as a gift from God with two purposes, the unitive purpose, uniting the husband and wife in a renewal of their wedding vow and secondly, procreative, for having children. These two aspects of the marital act cannot be seperated.

There have been many discussions as to the acts that can be used as a means of foreplay within the marital act. As long as neither party is asked to perform an act that is disrespectful to their spouse and as long as the husband ejaculates inside his wife’s vagina.

Now having said all of that we must take a look at the CCC:

1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.”

2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Fornication is sex outside of marriage. Nowadays many people engage in sex acts that push the limits, but does not cross that line of sexual intercourse. Oral sex is just as much sex as sexual intercourse. Stimulating each other is sex as well. It is a sexual act that would fall into the category of sex. These acts performed outside of the marriage vows therefore are fornication.

Furthermore, why would anyone want to put themselves in the near occasion of sin? Why would they want to tempt themselves? We live in a society that does not see eye to eye with our (the Catholic) view of sex. Sex is sacred. Sex is holy. It is not an act simply for ones’ pleasure. That is not what sex is about. Sex and sexual acts belong inside of the marriage covenant. Even then, the act must maintain the unitive and procreative aspects.
 
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