Is it the correct translation?

[Tamsulosin]

Does the Our Father prayer taught to us byJesus said “do not lead us into temptation”?
or said"keep us away from temptation"?
God would never lead us into temptation.Satan will.
So I do not understand.

 

[ProVobis]

Does the Our Father prayer taught to us byJesus said “do not lead us into temptation”?
or said"keep us away from temptation"?
God would never lead us into temptation.Satan will.
So I do not understand.

Et ne nos inducas in tentationem.
And do not us lead into temptation

But I don’t see why you can’t translate it as “Keep us away from temptation” if you understand it better that way. However, I wouldn’t use it in church.

 

[jbuck919]

It’s all Greek to me.

Apparently that phrase in the Greek in which it was written in the Gospel of Matthew contains one of those richly nuanced expressions that Greek is famous for that can’t be rendered easily into English (or, evidently, Latin). At least that is the explanation I have heard for why we must settle for the various clumsy and puzzling renderings that have been produced over the centuries, including, alas, “lead us not into temptation.”

 

[ProVobis]

It’s all Greek to me.

Now it is.

Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς·
ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου·
ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου·
γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου,·
ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς·
τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον·
καὶ ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰ ὀφειλήματα ἡμῶν,
ὡς καὶ ἡμεῖς ἀφίεμεν τοῖς ὀφειλέταις ἡμῶν·
καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν,
ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ.
Ὅτι σοῦ ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία καὶ ἡ δύναμις καὶ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. ἀμήν.]

“And lead us not into temptation”
Interpretations of the penultimate petition of the prayer — not to be led by God into peirasmos — vary considerably. The range of meanings of the Greek word “πειρασμός” (peirasmos) is illustrated in The New Testament Greek Lexicon. In different contexts it can mean temptation, testing, trial, experiment. Traditionally it has been translated “temptation” and, in spite of the statement in James 1:12-15 that God tests/tempts nobody, some see the petition in the Lord’s Prayer as implying that God leads people to sin. There are generally two arguments for interpreting the word as meaning here a “test of character”. First, it may be an eschatological appeal against unfavourable Last Judgment, a theory supported by the use of the word “peirasmos” in this sense in Revelation 3:10. The other argument is that it acts as a plea against hard tests described elsewhere in scripture, such as those of Job.[21] It can also be read as: “LORD, do not let us be led (by ourselves, by others, by Satan) into temptations”. Since it follows shortly after a plea for daily bread (i.e. material sustenance), it can be seen as referring to not being caught up in the material pleasures given. A similar phrase appears in Matthew 26:41 and Luke 22:40 in connection with the prayer of Jesus in Gethsemane.[22]

Heaven is compared to an exceeding high mountain. Rev 21: 10. It is so high, that Satan’s fiery darts cannot reach up to it. - Thomas Watson — The Lord’s Prayer

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord’s_Prayer

 

[Apollos]

Does the Our Father prayer taught to us byJesus said “do not lead us into temptation”?
or said"keep us away from temptation"?
God would never lead us into temptation.Satan will.
So I do not understand.

For me that’s the wrong question almost! Because the line before it says “and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”. Now “trespass” means to go onto someone else’s property without authorization. Why is cutting across your neighbor’s soybean field such a bad thing? Everyone’s kids snowmobile and fourwheel all over the township when the fields are empty and play Jurassic Park in the corn and nobody cares, so long as they take the dogs with them and don’t tear the place up. The Protestants say “forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors”, and I’ve heard others say “forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us”, so which is it?

Then, the line that follows, says “deliver us from evil”, while some Bibles say “deliver us from the evil one”, which I take is the devil. So which is it?

 

[DaveBj]

Then, the line that follows, says “deliver us from evil”, while some Bibles say “deliver us from the evil one”, which I take is the devil. So which is it?

We don’t know. The Greek is “tou ponerou,” “the evil,” and the “evil” word is genitive singular, but the masculine and neuter forms of the adjective are identical. So-o-o, we have no way of knowing if it should be masculine (“the evil one”) or neuter (evil in general).

DaveBj

 

[patrick457]

For me that’s the wrong question almost! Because the line before it says “and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”. Now “trespass” means to go onto someone else’s property without authorization. Why is cutting across your neighbor’s soybean field such a bad thing? Everyone’s kids snowmobile and fourwheel all over the township when the fields are empty and play Jurassic Park in the corn and nobody cares, so long as they take the dogs with them and don’t tear the place up. The Protestants say “forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors”, and I’ve heard others say “forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us”, so which is it?

First, I’ll admit that the Protestants were the most literal here. The word in Greek is opheilemata, something which is owed (from the verb opheilo, ‘to owe’/‘to be indebted’ to someone or ‘to be under obligation’), hence a ‘debt’ - which actually comes from the way St. Jerome translates the word: debita. Kai aphes hemin ta opheilemata hemon, kai hemeis aphekamen tois opheiletais hemon “And remit (second aorist; the verb aphiemi literally means ‘to send away’; hence ‘to remit’ or ‘to forgive’) us the debts of-us as also we remit (aorist) the debtors of-us.”

And BTW, the English word trespass (which came from the Old French trespasser, ‘to cross over’ or ‘to transgress’; from the noun trespas ‘passage’) originally also had the connotation of ‘to commit an offence’ or ‘to offend/wrong’ someone; hence ‘to sin’. “Forgive us our sins” is basically a modernization - which incidentally finds Scriptural support as well, since Luke’s version of the Our Father (11:4) has amartias ‘sins’ in place of Matthew’s opheilemata ‘debts’.

 

[Tamsulosin]

In Spanish"no nos dejes caer en la tentacion"
translated to English"Do not let us fall into temptation"

 

[mangy_dog]

Et ne nos inducas in tentationem.
And do not us lead into temptation

But I don’t see why you can’t translate it as “Keep us away from temptation” if you understand it better that way. However, I wouldn’t use it in church.

You are very correct,

In Spanish it would be, " y no nos dejes caer en la tentación ". So that “et ne nos inducas” would be “don’t allow us to be led into”.

And the following line defines the ardent request when it says, " sed libera nos a malo" or “but deliver us from the evil one”. Additionally we are asking God to deliver us from the influence of the evil one and/or evil influence in general.

Latin is a whole text and not just an excerpt. Often (I’ve found) that reading on defines the message being conveyed.

Hope this helps.

 

[patrick457]

In Spanish"no nos dejes caer en la tentacion"
translated to English"Do not let us fall into temptation"

Just to comment on this:

The traditional Spanish version of the Pater does have “Y no nos dexes (modern: dejes) caer en [la] tentacion.” An alternative version (notably coming from the Protestant Reina-Valera translation of the Bible, first published in 1569) has, “Y no nos metas en tentacion.”

It’s not just a Spanish thing: the wording of the final petition in some other Ibero-Romance languages such as Portuguese (E não nos deixeis cair em tentação), Galician (E non nos deixes caer na tentación), Asturian (Nun mos dexes cayer na tentación), Extremaduran (No mos dejis cael en tentación), and the (extinct) Mozarabic language (Non nos layxes cader in tentacion) are similar to Castellano.

 

[ProVobis]

How about an Old English version:

youtube.com/watch?v=mHtvm-IQD6o&feature=related

(makes you wonder what it will be several hundred years from now)

============================================

Here’s in 13 different languages:

youtube.com/watch?v=FGgCy1PZ-cU&feature=related

 

[Apollos]

And in American Middleschoolian:

…en don’t, like, y’know, do the whole, tempting thing? 'n stuff…

 

[VetA]

It’s all Greek to me.

Apparently that phrase in the Greek in which it was written in the Gospel of Matthew contains one of those richly nuanced expressions that Greek is famous for that can’t be rendered easily into English (or, evidently, Latin). At least that is the explanation I have heard for why we must settle for the various clumsy and puzzling renderings that have been produced over the centuries, including, alas, "lead us not into temptation."

i like thisun

 

[ConstantineTG]

In Filipino the line goes:

At huwag mo kaming ipahintulot sa tukso

At = and
huwag = do not
mo = you
kaming = us
ipahintulot = allow
sa = of
tukso = temptation

translation: “And don’t you allow us to be tempted”

Not sure though if it was translated from Latin or from Spanish

 

[VetA]

It’s all Greek to me.

Apparently that phrase in the Greek in which it was written in the Gospel of Matthew contains one of those richly nuanced expressions that Greek is famous for that can’t be rendered easily into English (or, evidently, Latin). At least that is the explanation I have heard for why we must settle for the various clumsy and puzzling renderings that have been produced over the centuries, including, alas, "lead us not into temptation."

i like thisun

 

[patrick457]

In Filipino the line goes:

At huwag mo kaming ipahintulot sa tukso

At = and
huwag = do not
mo = you
kaming = us
ipahintulot = allow
sa = of
tukso = temptation

translation: “And don’t you allow us to be tempted”

Not sure though if it was translated from Latin or from Spanish

At i-adya Mo kami sa lahat ng masama.

That being said, the earliest translation of the Our Father into Tagalog (Doctrina Christiana, 1593) translates the final petition as follows: “Houag mo caming aeuan nang dicami matalo nang tocso. Datapo uat yadia mo cami sa dilan masama.” (modern ortography: Huwag mo kaming iwan nang di kami matalo ng tukso, datapuwa’t iadya Mo kami sa dilang masama.*)

Not dila as in ‘tongue’, is it?
Another (pre-modern, I think) Tagalog version has the final line as ‘At iyadya mo kami sa dilang masasama’.

 

[ConstantineTG]

At i-adya Mo kami sa lahat ng masama.

That being said, the earliest translation of the Our Father into Tagalog (Doctrina Christiana, 1593) translates the final petition as follows: “Houag mo caming aeuan nang dicami matalo nang tocso. Datapo uat yadia mo cami sa dilan masama.” (modern ortography: Huwag mo kaming iwan nang di kami matalo ng tukso, datapuwa’t iadya Mo kami sa dilang masama.*)

Not dila as in ‘tongue’, is it?
Another (pre-modern, I think) Tagalog version has the final line as ‘At iyadya mo kami sa dilang masasama’.

dilang masama = evil tongue?
or dilang = hindi lang = not only?

 

[patrick457]

dilang masama = evil tongue?
or dilang = hindi lang = not only?

It’s not ‘tongue’ (díla). Diláng (note the accent on a instead of i) here is an archaic word meaning ‘all’ or ‘every’: “deliver us from all evil”, hence the reason why the official version nowadays has lahat ng masama. In fact, a poem, or dalit, written by Pedro Suarez Ossorio in praise of the Explicacion de la Doctrina Christiana en lengua Tagala (1627), has the following stanza: O librong mabuti,t, mahal / Na ang dilang iyong laman / Di sucat mahalagahan / Nang yaman sa sang libutan (O book [both] fine and noble / All that you contain / Can never be purchased / with all the wealth in the world). And Fray Miguel Lucio y Bustamante’s (1842-1893) Si Tandang Basio Macunat has the following:

Ating atuhan, ang uica nang Cura, ating atuhan. Ñgayo,i, umoui ca na, at houag cang umiyac, at houag mo namang alalahanin itong mañga bagay na ito. Sundin mo lamang ang una cong hatol sa iyo, na sa macatouid: ipanalañgin mo sa Pañginoon Dios ang capatid mong si Próspero nang siya,i, iadiya,t, iligtas sa dilang masasama, at ang Pañginoon Dios na ang bahala. …]

Di baga naquiquita, pó, ninyo, ó nabalitaan caya, na ang caramihan nating mañga tagalog, tabi sa di ganoon, na nag-aaral sa Maynila, ay ualang ibang natutuhan doon cundi ang dilang capalamarahan sa canilang capoua tao?

BTW, the pre-modern version also has utang/nagkakautang (debts/debtors) where the new version has sala/nagkakasala (sins/who sin against us).

From A handbook and grammar of the Tagalog language (1905):

Amá namin sungmasalan͠git ka;
Sambahín ang n͠galan mo;
Mapasaamin ang kaharian mo;
Sundin ang lóob mo;
Dito sa lupa para nang sa lan͠git;
Bigyán mo kamí n͠gayón nang aming kanin sa árao-árao
At patawárin mo kamí nan͠g aming man͠gá útang,
Para nang pagpatawad namin sa man͠gagkakautang sa amin;
At houag mo kamin͠g ipahintúlot sa tukso,
At iadyá mo kamí sa dilang masamâ.

Father our (of-us) art-in-heaven thou;
Adored (worshiped) the name of-thee;
Come-to-us the kingdom of-thee;
(Be) done the will of-thee;
Here upon earth according to (that) in heaven;
(Be) given of-thee we (us) now of-the our food upon everyday
And (be) pardoned of-thee we (us) of-the our (man͠gá - sign of plurality) debts,
According as (are) forgiven of-us to those-indebted to us;
And do-not of-thee (let) us (be) permitted into temptation,
But =And] (be) delivered of-thee we (us) from all evil.

 

[ConstantineTG]

One reason I do not like attending Filipino Mass is because formal Tagalog is a bit antiquated. Although I miss the music.

 

[Vico]

Does the Our Father prayer taught to us byJesus said “do not lead us into temptation”?
or said"keep us away from temptation"?
God would never lead us into temptation.Satan will.
So I do not understand.

Consider the NAB, Matt 6:13:

"and do not subject us to the final test, 10 but deliver us from the evil one.

10 [13] Jewish apocalyptic writings speak of a period of severe trial before the end of the age, sometimes called the “messianic woes.” This petition asks that the disciples be spared that final test."

And the Haydock commentary:

Ver. 13. God is not the tempter of evil, or author of sin. (James i. 13.) He tempteth no man: we pray that he would not suffer the devil to tempt us above our strength: that he would remove the temptations, or enable us to overcome them, and deliver us from evil, particularly the evil of sin, which is the first, and the greatest, and the true efficient cause of all evils. (Haydock)