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JanR
Guest
Do you practice this in your own life?
Is it "theft" to keep high-value items that were abandoned in my home?
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DeniseKYGirl
Guest
Well, I’m happy that you get something out of it, but the real value of what we learn in church is how we apply it to our lives in service of the Lord. We learn lessons and get inspired so that we can go out and actively make a difference. I don’t see that many people going out and showing that they really TRULY care about (or believe) what they’ve learned. Many show up because they think God (or the family) expects it, or just because it’s something to do.
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DeniseKYGirl
Guest
The illustration of the Eye of the Needle tells us that being rich is a bad idea, and we can read into this the fact that material possessions draw us away from spirituality. I will make my own illustration: Owning snakes doesn’t mean you will get bit, but the more snakes you add to your house, the more the chance of getting bit increases. The same applies to accumulating wealth. No, we don’t have to live in huts and go around being filthy, but there is value in not having anything to lose since this state of being allows us to have mental/spiritual freedom. Listen to the song, “I Got Plenty of Nothing” from Porgy and Bess. Or, while your at it, listen to the rap song, “Gin and Juice” by Snoop Dogg: “I got my mind on my money and my money on my mind.” So, herein lies the problem: preoccupation with things that draw us away from thoughts of Heaven and the Divine. The more we have, the more we have to protect and maintain what we have, and it becomes an obsessions which, as you know, is a form of idolatry.
blackforest
Well-known member
The legal part: At least in my state, it’s considered your property so long as you find it in your home after you officially carry the title and own the home. You’d have to look up your state’s law.
The Catholic part: Be a good, charitable neighbor and try to reach the old homeowner about it.
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DeniseKYGirl
Guest
Are you asking this question so you can pass judgement on me or should you really be asking yourself this question? We are held to the standards that God has set for us, and it’s not about being perfect, but rather being more perfect than you were yesterday. You are competing against yourself so don’t worry about me; I am fine. Everyone who calls himself a follower of Christ should be trying to follow Christ as best they can. All have fallen short, and our works are as filthy rags, lest any man or woman should boast.
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Annie
Guest
Getting married is not contrary to the message of Jesus.
In the same way, collecting material possessions is also not contrary to His message.
Doing anything “for the purpose of self-gratification” is contrary to His message, even ministry.
There was a man who had accumulated material possessions in the Bible. Because he had done so, there was a tomb in which to bury Jesus after He had been crucified.
In the same way, collecting material possessions is also not contrary to His message.
Doing anything “for the purpose of self-gratification” is contrary to His message, even ministry.
There was a man who had accumulated material possessions in the Bible. Because he had done so, there was a tomb in which to bury Jesus after He had been crucified.
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BartholomewB
Guest
@Oregonblueberry, if it had been the other way around, and you had unintentionally left something valuable behind, what would you like the new owner of the property to do?
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
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poche
Guest
If it was abandoned and you have no way of finding the original owners then the items are yours.
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Annie
Guest
Even in your explanation, you talk about “too much,” “too many,” for selfish reasons, etc.
It can be difficult for poor people to maintain their spirituality as well. Poor people can be obsessed with becoming rich, or consumed with anger at God that they are not rich, or running after sex or drugs.
Notice that the early Christians did not continue in the lifestyle of dropping everything and joining the ministry. Why? I would suggest 2 reasons: one that it was unsustainable, and two, that Jesus’s message was for people living regular lives in the world. Would it be Christian to require that people leave their sick loved ones in order to become Christian? And so on.
You say you are studying philosophy in your description of yourself. You might check out St Thomas Aquinas here.
It can be difficult for poor people to maintain their spirituality as well. Poor people can be obsessed with becoming rich, or consumed with anger at God that they are not rich, or running after sex or drugs.
Notice that the early Christians did not continue in the lifestyle of dropping everything and joining the ministry. Why? I would suggest 2 reasons: one that it was unsustainable, and two, that Jesus’s message was for people living regular lives in the world. Would it be Christian to require that people leave their sick loved ones in order to become Christian? And so on.
You say you are studying philosophy in your description of yourself. You might check out St Thomas Aquinas here.
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Bluebright
Guest
What’s the law of your country? In England you could report it as found property and log it with police on a website (you keep the property in the meantime) and you tick a box saying you like to keep said property at the end of the time. It logs time date location etc. And the onus is on the loser to look for it either on the website or via police or those using the scheme and if after a certain amount of time it is not claimed you may keep it, legally. It would not be theft in that case. It would also not be a sin as long as you didn’t lie about any of the details. If someone tried to claim it after the time, then that would be up to your charitable nature. In England you could do this all online, try your local police and see if its the same.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Amen, @annie, in fact remember when people complained about the costly perfume used to anoint Jesus? Jesus reprimanded those people.
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phil19034
Guest
Not exactly. The original disciples who physically followed Jesus from place to place were expected to drop everything.
Think of it like this… if you were going to walk around with Jesus everywhere He went, you couldn’t have responsibilities in your family or community. One would have needed to dispense with all of their responsibilities before being able to physically follow him around.
When Jesus was talking to rich man, the rich man wanted to literally become one of Jesus’s disciples and follow Him around (like the 12). In order to do that, the man needed to drop his worldly possessions, which he wasn’t willing to do.
Jesus knew the man’s heart. The man was willing to drop his responsibilities but he wasn’t willing to get rid of his possessions. Jesus knew the rich man cared more for is possessions than he did for The Way.
We know from history, that there were plenty of believers who did NOT give up everything they had. There were many who were just your average lay person, like we have today. But the ones who physically followed Jesus from place to place (like the 12, Mary Magdalene, etc) were basically the first priests & nuns.
Jesus’s own Mother, Mary didn’t give up her home. Was not homeless. Also, the Apostles didn’t sell off their homes either, Peter still owned his home and still owned his fishing boat(s).
Possessions (in of themself) are not bad. On the contrary, private ownership is very good. What’s wrong is “the love of money” and/or the “love of material possessions.” It’s when we put our possessions and money before God that it becomes an issue.
And that was the point of the story of Jesus and the rich man. He put his possessions before God.
I pray this helps.
God Bless
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Limoncello4021
Guest
Yes, I was going to cite this myself as I was reading through this thread. The cost of the perfume was enormous–the Mary (maybe Magdalene?) who broke the jar and anointed Jesus must have been quite wealthy. Judas complained it should have been sold and money given to the poor, not a bad argument and one with which many of us might agree. Rather than condemning the seemingly utter waste of an expensive item, Jesus praised the intent behind it. It is not whether we are rich or poor but how we use what we have. Contrast this act of Mary to the selfish rich man who didn’t even “see” the poor man Lazarus at his door.
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JesusReadsHearts
Guest
Getting married is not contrary to the message of Jesus.
Jesus Christ’s words are clear—the Kingdom of God is to be the No. 1 focus and emphasis in the lives of His followers. In fact, it was the core of His gospel message. Jesus did not frown upon marriage BUT His main message to all was/is-THE KINGDOM OF GOD is the NO. 1 focus.
Read Luke 14:26 & Luke 18:29
In order to be a disciple, we must be willing to give up everything for Jesus. Following Jesus requires commitment and faithfulness. If and when we are faced with the painful choice of loyalty to family versus loyalty to Jesus, we must choose Jesus.
Luke 18:29-30 29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
In the same way, collecting material possessions is also not contrary to His message.
We must keep in mind of one’s true intentions. Collecting material possessions in order to give to the poor is different than simply holding on to high-value items for selfish or sentimental reasons. Spiritual things is what we must pursue. It’s all in the intention. Jesus did not teach us about holding on to expensive stuff for self-gratification. On the contrary, he told us to give it away.
Doing anything “for the purpose of self-gratification” is contrary to His message, even ministry.
There was a man who had accumulated material possessions in the Bible. Because he had done so, there was a tomb in which to bury Jesus after He had been crucified.
Joseph of Arimathea donated his new tomb for Jesus to be buried in. This fulfilled the prophecy in Isaiah 53:9: “He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.”
This act had to do with fulfilling a prophecy not encouraging others to be rich.
Jesus Christ’s words are clear—the Kingdom of God is to be the No. 1 focus and emphasis in the lives of His followers. In fact, it was the core of His gospel message. Jesus did not frown upon marriage BUT His main message to all was/is-THE KINGDOM OF GOD is the NO. 1 focus.
Read Luke 14:26 & Luke 18:29
In order to be a disciple, we must be willing to give up everything for Jesus. Following Jesus requires commitment and faithfulness. If and when we are faced with the painful choice of loyalty to family versus loyalty to Jesus, we must choose Jesus.
Luke 18:29-30 29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”
In the same way, collecting material possessions is also not contrary to His message.
We must keep in mind of one’s true intentions. Collecting material possessions in order to give to the poor is different than simply holding on to high-value items for selfish or sentimental reasons. Spiritual things is what we must pursue. It’s all in the intention. Jesus did not teach us about holding on to expensive stuff for self-gratification. On the contrary, he told us to give it away.
Doing anything “for the purpose of self-gratification” is contrary to His message, even ministry.
There was a man who had accumulated material possessions in the Bible. Because he had done so, there was a tomb in which to bury Jesus after He had been crucified.
Joseph of Arimathea donated his new tomb for Jesus to be buried in. This fulfilled the prophecy in Isaiah 53:9: “He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.”
This act had to do with fulfilling a prophecy not encouraging others to be rich.
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Annie
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mythbuster1
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And some did continue in that lifestyle: that is where monasteries come from.
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JesusReadsHearts
Guest
It looks like you stated, “Getting married is not contrary to the message of Jesus” did you not? (Did you originally state this?)
Jesus’ MAIN message as I have stated before is all about His Father’s Kingdom. His followers were given special instruction.
Did you get a chance to read Luke 14:26 and Luke 18:29?
Jesus’ MAIN message as I have stated before is all about His Father’s Kingdom. His followers were given special instruction.
Did you get a chance to read Luke 14:26 and Luke 18:29?
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DeniseKYGirl
Guest
I think you are missing the point of John 12:7-8
Mary’s action in anointing Jesus’ feet is interpreted by Jesus as preparation for his burial . In this regard it is interesting that John is careful to point out in verse 3 that it was Jesus ’ feet that she anointed. Normally one would not anoint the feet of a living person (rather the head—cf. [Mk 14:3]) but one could anoint the feet of a corpse while preparing it for burial. Thus Mary performed (unconsciously) a prophetic or symbolic action—one which Jesus understood but which the disciples almost certainly did not at the time . See this foreshadowing of the passion narrative to follow in chapters 18-19
As for Judas Iscariot-You quote “Judas complained it should have been sold and money given to the poor, not a bad argument and one with which many of us might agree.” That is not the entire meaning of this verse.
John 12:6- This is one of the indications in the gospels that Judas was of bad character before the betrayal of Jesus. John tells us that he was a “ thief ” and was in charge of the finances within group. More than being simply a derogatory note about Judas’ character, the inclusion of this note at this particular point in the narrative may be intended to link the frustrated greed of Judas here with his subsequent decision to betray Jesus for money ( [W. Hall Harris III]) . Connected with this account, Matthew and Mark strongly indicate that after this incident Judas quickly went away and made his deal with the Jewish authorities to have Jesus arrested. Losing out on one source of sordid gain, he immediately went out and set up another.
Mary’s action in anointing Jesus’ feet is interpreted by Jesus as preparation for his burial . In this regard it is interesting that John is careful to point out in verse 3 that it was Jesus ’ feet that she anointed. Normally one would not anoint the feet of a living person (rather the head—cf. [Mk 14:3]) but one could anoint the feet of a corpse while preparing it for burial. Thus Mary performed (unconsciously) a prophetic or symbolic action—one which Jesus understood but which the disciples almost certainly did not at the time . See this foreshadowing of the passion narrative to follow in chapters 18-19
As for Judas Iscariot-You quote “Judas complained it should have been sold and money given to the poor, not a bad argument and one with which many of us might agree.” That is not the entire meaning of this verse.
John 12:6- This is one of the indications in the gospels that Judas was of bad character before the betrayal of Jesus. John tells us that he was a “ thief ” and was in charge of the finances within group. More than being simply a derogatory note about Judas’ character, the inclusion of this note at this particular point in the narrative may be intended to link the frustrated greed of Judas here with his subsequent decision to betray Jesus for money ( [W. Hall Harris III]) . Connected with this account, Matthew and Mark strongly indicate that after this incident Judas quickly went away and made his deal with the Jewish authorities to have Jesus arrested. Losing out on one source of sordid gain, he immediately went out and set up another.
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Annie
Guest
You are right–i misread your message 
The Church teaches all this very clearly to us. I was responding to a poster who originally stated that Jesus had taught against owning high-value items, which He did not teach.
The Church teaches all this very clearly to us. I was responding to a poster who originally stated that Jesus had taught against owning high-value items, which He did not teach.
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DeniseKYGirl
Guest
I’m not going to make an attempt at judging who is right or wrong, because only Jesus reads hearts and can say who does or does not get to enter the Kingdom (if we are going by the “Book”). We are to look at the example that Jesus set and choose to be more like him or LESS like him. He did not collect more than he needed to get by or fulfill the prophecies. That’s just how Jesus rolled. You can “roll” however you like; we all have to make choices. Let’s say I look up to Valentino Rossi and it is my dream to be like him. What if I make the choice to keep my bike in the garage and practice infrequently. Will I ever be great like him and have the same skill sets? NO! So, when you call yourself a Christian, we ASSUME that you want to be as much like Jesus as you possibly can. I mean, according to the Bible, you will be standing before him one day and there will be some serious questioning. “Why didn’t you strive to be more like me, JanR? There was so much more to be done, yet you just allowed yourself to cool down into a ‘lukewarm’ Christian. Why did you stop trying? Why did you focus so much on creature comforts and perishable material possessions? Didn’t you know that it is better to gain spiritual wealth?” You DEFINITELY don’t want to be having this kind of conversation with our Lord and Savior!
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