Is it Time for Vatican III?

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There’s a very real reason for a new ecumenical council, and its something that is mostly unrelated to the issues of “modernism” - as a step to help repair the rift between the Western and Eastern Churches. Such as council would be appropriate to reconcile 1000 to 1500 years of divergent expression of faith by the Orthodox Churches. This would have to take place after the restoration of communion was established, as only seated Bishops in full communion and good standing can participate in a Council.

Among the issues to be discussed would be the continued autonomy of the Orthodox branches, the existence of parallel orthodox eparchies and catholic diocese, and exploration of the meaning behind two separate yet valid sacramental and theological traditions. If anything such a council would address “ancient” problems instead of “modern” problems.
 
**WILL YOU LOOKY HERE !! **No need for this thread - someone has already done the work for us regarding the OP:

“Father Edward L. Beck, a Passionist Priest, and a contributor to ABC, wrote a column for ABC in which he calls for Vatican III. I think the article is worth a fisking.”

LOVE IT!
As Christians begin their celebration of the Easter season, the Catholic church seems stuck in Good Friday. No Father, the Catholic Church is always ”stuck” in Easter. Just when some would like to turn their attention to the profound mysteries of their faith, they are instead mystified by yet another round of horrendous sex abuse storiesmaking headlines. Yeah, totally by accident, and too bad Father doesn’t spend time mentioning how spurious this piece of tripe by the New York Times was.
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So then, what is the best way for the church to move forward? Dramatic failure requires a dramatic solution. Nothing gets the attention of the church and, perhaps the world, like a Vatican Council. Here we get to the purpose behind this article. The last one, of course, ended more than 45 years ago in 1965. While some would maintain that we have yet to fully execute the decrees of that Council, the world and the church have changed dramatically in the interim. When has the World not been changing? As to Vatican II, all the turmoil in the Church since that Council should cause us to hesitate before calling the next one. The current crisis in the church can serve as the impetus for once again calling together the worldwide church community in pursuit of modernization, reform and spiritual integration for a new time and world. Always be alarmed when anyone proposes a radical step for the sake of vague terms like modernization, reform and spiritual integration.
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What issues might this Council address? The death of the Faith in Europe? Rampant immorality? The failure of the Novus Ordo Mass to inspire many Catholics? Many to be sure, but chief among them could be the current crisis confronting the priesthood. Homosexuality? Lack of fidelity to their vows? A desire for a life of ease? Certainly the issue of sexual abuse and the devastating toll it has taken in the church might be examined and addressed definitively, once and for all. In addition, while pedophilia and the sexual abuse of minors and priestly celibacy are not organically related, the abuse crisis has once again raised the issue of the necessity and relevancy of mandatory celibacy for diocesan priests. How long has celibacy been bugging you Father? Wasn’t that particular requirement spelled out clearly enough for you when you were ordained? The majority of Catholics and priests want an open discussion about this issue, but up to this point, that has not been permitted. Rubbish. This “ issue” isn’t even on the radarscope for most priests and laity.
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the-american-catholic.com/tag/father-edward-l-beck/
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ooohhhh…I left out the best one…
Many feel that other issues should also be addressed if a new Vatican Council was ever convened. Women priests, sexual ethics, inter-religious dialogue, globalization and ecology are but some of the topics that get mentioned. What a boring list of the ever present litany of the Catholic Left. Ordain women, dump Church teaching on sexual morality, blend in with the mainline Protestants, follow the left wing issue du jour and go green. Father, there is a church that embraces all the stances you favor. It is dying, but if you hurry an Episcopalian “priesthood” can be yours.
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Above all people seem to desire an open dialogue, simply to be able to talk about these issues in an adult forum where their life experience and hard-earned wisdom is acknowledged as a indispensable element in the establishment of church law and doctrine. Hate to break it to you Father, but the teachings of the Church are not up for majority vote, and if they were I suspect you would not like many of the results. This would mean that more than Red Hats gather for such a Council. The laity would need to be more than window dressing this time. They would rather be respected as serious deliberators who help the ecclesiastical hierarchy to shape a new and spirit-filled vision. That this would contradict 2000 years of how the Church has determined doctrine means less than nothing to you doesn’t it Father?
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Gee Tigg, Thanks so much for explaining this. I guess posting the article for anyone to read at the beginning of the thread would be too much for the common person to comprehend. Freedom os speech is a great thing, isn’t it?
 
runningdude said:
There’s a very real reason for a new ecumenical council, and its something that is mostly unrelated to the issues of “modernism” - as a step to help repair the rift between the Western and Eastern Churches. Such as council would be appropriate to reconcile 1000 to 1500 years of divergent expression of faith by the Orthodox Churches. This would have to take place after the restoration of communion was established, as only seated Bishops in full communion and good standing can participate in a Council.

Among the issues to be discussed would be the continued autonomy of the Orthodox branches, the existence of parallel orthodox eparchies and catholic diocese, and exploration of the meaning behind two separate yet valid sacramental and theological traditions. If anything such a council would address “ancient” problems instead of “modern” problems.
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Thank you for your well thought out reply. I gave me something to think about.
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
BTW Who says “lookey here” anymore. Too cute
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l o l !! I dunno, Via D. the expression just popped into my head as a way of drawing attention to the fact that a blogger had fisked the article you used to start a thread. 😃

Altho our politics, and I suspect, our faith as well, are miles apart, I give you credit for the very good threads you have started recently. GBU !!
 
Tigg said:
l o l !! I dunno, Via D. the expression just popped into my head as a way of drawing attention to the fact that a blogger had fisked the article you used to start a thread. 😃

Altho our politics, and I suspect, our faith as well, are miles apart, I give you credit for the very good threads you have started recently. GBU !!
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Thank you. God bless you, too.
 
estesbob said:
And What issues are those?
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The giant elephant in the room.

The one that is sucking the life out of the church, and not only is it sucking out the life of some on the margins, but it is sucking the life out of some very loyal and faithful catholics as well.

It is the issue making the church smaller and less pure as opposed to the issues that make the church smaller and purer.

Peace
 
portarica said:
The giant elephant in the room.

The one that is sucking the life out of the church, and not only is it sucking out the life of some on the margins, but it is sucking the life out of some very loyal and faithful catholics as well.

It is the issue making the church smaller and less pure as opposed to the issues that make the church smaller and purer.

Peace
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I’m curious…please won’t you elaborate (altho I can guess what you’re speaking about.)
 
Tigg said:
I’m curious…please won’t you elaborate (altho I can guess what you’re speaking about.)
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Guess, I’ll give you three tries. What is driving faithful catholics away and has nothing to do with a doctrine?

Peace
 
Worthy5 said:
Pure nonsense–with all due respect to the priest who wrote this. The Church gathers in Council to refine its understanding of the “deposit of faith”—not to administrative problems.
The abuse scandal is an adminstrative problem–not a problem involving doctrine. And this idea that celibacy caused this abuse problem is nonsense.

The silly yap of the media is just that—yap.
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Actually many of the councils address non-deposit of faith topics.New Advent has extensive histories regarding the councils, here is a good start about the councils in the 1200’s + :
newadvent.org/cathen/09016a.htm

And I’m not sure exactly which council first addressed the subject of clerical abuse, but it might be in one of the Lateran Councils. There was a problem of abuse at the monasteries along the pilgrimage routes and the pope had to address it.

Peace
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
Please expand your thoughts. I don’t get what you are saying. Thank you.
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There are issues driving faithful catholics, especially the young and educated, away from the church and they have nothing to do with the issues of a “purer” church or modernistic thought.

I fear its a “can’t see the forest ,because of the trees type of thing.”

Peace
 
If you mean moral issues, then spare me from being ‘educated.’
 
portarica said:
No, not moral issues either, nothing about which the church is infallible.

Two guesses left.

Peace
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My guess is the sex abuse scandal but I really don’t feel like playing games. What are you thoughts?
 
portarica
issue sucking the life out of some very loyal and faithful catholics as well.
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Faithful Catholics don’t leave Christ’s Church. Those who leave have already become unfaithful. When they see dissent in word and action they counter it, by offering truth, prayer, fasting, and good works.

We don’t need an Ecumenical Council before others assent to the primacy and infallibility which Christ conveyed to Peter.
 
Abu said:
Faithful Catholics don’t leave Christ’s Church. Those who leave have already become unfaithful. When they see dissent in word and action they counter it, by offering truth, prayer, fasting, and good works.

We don’t need an Ecumenical Council before others assent to the primacy and infallibility which Christ conveyed to Peter.
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I have been thinking for quite some time now about the indefectibility of the Church and how this all flies in the face of what we are experiencing now - the tremendous loss of faith, outright heresy, liturgical abuse, sex scandals, the lack of catechesis and ensuing indifferentism, the Father Pfleger’s of this world who have abandoned basic virtues like obedience to their superiors (and done much worse), dissenting feminist nuns escorting clients into abortion mills, … the list is endless. How can this all be happening to the Church Christ promised would not fail?

But you are correct. Although the progressive movement in the Church has defiled so much, the faith still stands. That is amazing. The Spirit WHO guides and sanctifies gives conviction of the truth within the hearts of faithful and obedient Catholics despite all the crazy things we are seeing today. Just as the very essence of the Trinity will remain the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow, truth as contained within HIS Church cannot change. What comfort that should give us.

A personal story to illustrate this would be a recent retreat day I attended which was given by a priest who holds a rather prestigious office in our diocese. He has totally bought into the progressive agenda of the green movement, global warming and the environmental falsities surrounding it. He was dangerously close to speaking heresy and committing idolatry as he touted the “Sacred Earth” community and his philosophy of an over-populated planet. I looked around the room and saw smiling faces eagerly taking notes, unaware of the contradictions to Church teaching that were coming from his mouth. When the break came for lunch, an entire table of 6 people got up and walked out of the room and did not return for the afternoon session. I later found out they were appalled by what they had heard and two wrote letters to our bishop (as did I.)

Vatican III ?? No, I don’t think so, at least at this time. Let’s continue to let our seminaries produce the good men who are coming forth, now - those who solidly hold fast to their faith and are spiritual, rather than political.
 
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