Is it time to allow Preists to get married?

[GraceDK]

It may be a good time to remind everyone here that the irony of the situation is that mandatory celibacy was instituted as a rule across the Latin rite as a REFORM (and a popular one at that). During the time of the Cluny Reform Movement of the ninth century, there were a great deal of problems involving married priests. Nepotism was rampant, with many priests promoting the advancement (and often buying the advancement) of their children in the church. Some lived lavish lifestyles with their families, spending heavily from the collection plate to build things like personal palaces. There were also problems with infidelity among the priests, and scandals involving their children. (Keep in mind that a lot of this was due to the extremely poor literacy and education of the time. Local priests often had very little training.) The monks at Cluny monastery began a reform movement that rapidly spread from the religious order to the secular priests across Europe. Within 100 years, there were over 1,400 daughter monasteries from Cluny, all spreading reform. The movement was extremely successful, and immensely popular. The reforms finally could not be ignored, and were adopted and codified by the pope for the Latin rite of the church. Other reforms included the institution of cathedral schools as seminaries, the creation of the College of Cardinals to make the succession of the pope orderly, and and end to lay investiture.

This simply illustrates that ALL people are sinners, and that whatever system is in place will not be perfect. Scandal will sadly happen from time to time.

Thank you.
i felt some of the posters are not aware that priestly celibacy is a discipline that can and has changed over time, and not a moral dogma.

 

[Holly3278]

Nope, priests should remain celibate if they aren’t already. The reason being that they can serve God more fully if they are celibate.

 

[GraceDK]

Nope, priests should remain celibate if they aren’t already. The reason being that they can serve God more fully if they are celibate.

And Peter? Did he not serve God fully after the Pentecost?
How about the couple mentioned in Pauls letters… they served the Lord together.
I agree a non-married man has more time on his hands than a married man. However, how is that time spent. If priests are going down with depression, loneliness and stress, then they may have much time, but their ministry might not blossom.

 

[bobzills]

Nope, priests should remain celibate if they aren’t already. The reason being that they can serve God more fully if they are celibate.

If what you say is true, then why did Our Divine Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, choose the first Pope of the Catholic Church to be a married man?

 

[GraceDK]

ZAKI, beware what you have stepped into and embraced.

youtube.com/watch?v=Oipj0ull_ns

A shocking video about Anti Semitism… the GrandMufti of Jerusalem, Hitler and how Islams war against Jewry is only the front line of what happens to the rest of the kafur…

Stop hiding your head in the bush. How is it that you are here preaching to people when your own brothers are out doing the stuff seen in this video.
Dare you not watch… Yea, you are ot going to like it. Especially the Muslim imams that preach in the video must be hard for a young western democratic man to listen to…

 

[vz71]

Nope, priests should remain celibate if they aren’t already. The reason being that they can serve God more fully if they are celibate.

If what you say is true, then why did Our Divine Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, choose the first Pope of the Catholic Church to be a married man?

Obviously because this man (married or not) suited God’s purposes.

Holly3278’s point still stands. The capabilities of one do not translate into a conclusion for all.

 

[m134e5]

I believe that this time has arrived. There aren’t enough people entering the presithood. This will cause the Catholic Church to become week and cause more people to join evangelical groups. I don’t like this prospect because from what I’ve seen of evangelicals, they are wrong on a lot of things. I don’t agree with much of what they say as far as theology goes.

The fact that there are some married presits shows that it isn’t a bad thing. They must be able to function. I would be curious to hear from somebody who goes to a church where presits are married. Who thinks this will happen over the next 30 years ? I’m comming to believe it would be a good thing.

We get the priests we deserve. Relaxing the celibacy rule just because we’re desperate for more priests isn’t a good reason to do that- we don’t just need more priests, we need good priests. Good priests will inspire more men to become priests. Lousy ones will send the message that church isn’t that important, and that the priesthood isn’t that impressive. They do not live the sacrificial nature of the priesthood, so even if people ARE interested in it, they don’t last very long in the seminary because they simply never “get it”.

 

[Seatuck]

Let’s see what an ordained married man has to say -

holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/guests/rayryland/thegift.asp

Also, the history of the church has been that married priests do not have marital relations with their wives.I can’t see how that practice improves upon the situation.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_01011993_chisto_en.html

 

[Jack17]

No. If gays can’t marry in the Catholic Church then neither should priests.

 

[stringbeanduck]

No that is bad idea. Priests are in a sense married to her(the church). Even Paul tells us that a man can not have two wives. Now more than ever they need to be devoted God and serving their parish or order. Marriage and Holy orders are very important sacraments that should come together. I spoke to my priest about this issue and he even told that many of his protestant pastor friends have trouble doing their duty and juggling a wife/children. So no.

 

[Luke65]

Let’s see what an ordained married man has to say -

holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/guests/rayryland/thegift.asp

Also, the history of the church has been that married priests do not have marital relations with their wives.I can’t see how that practice improves upon the situation.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_01011993_chisto_en.html

Right:

Luke 18:28-30

Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!”

“I tell you the truth,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life.”

 

[stringbeanduck]

If what you say is true, then why did Our Divine Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, choose the first Pope of the Catholic Church to be a married man?

He also gave the church the authority to make rules and do what seems fit. In the early church married priests ran into problems which is why the church forbade it. If it didn’t work out well then, probably won’t today.

 

[aicirt]

I don’t think I was mistaken. The priest was on EWTN. Having read some of the above articles re. priests and marriage, I don’t know how he could have said it. Since I can’t prove what I said, we’ll drop it.

 

[edwest2]

Please see Part 35 of this Apostolic Exhortation by Pope John Paul II.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_20030628_ecclesia-in-europa_en.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[GraceDK]

He also gave the church the authority to make rules and do what seems fit. In the early church married priests ran into problems which is why the church forbade it. If it didn’t work out well then, probably won’t today.

Actually one of the main reasons for making celibacy a rule back in the Middle Ages was that there was a common misunderstanding at the time that sexual intercourse made people unclean. Even married priests.
There started to be rules about how long before celebrating the Eucharist a priest could have had intercourse with his wife. That time was extended more and more until celibacy was simply made a rule…
I would say the same tendency was already there among the early christians such as Augustine and the desert fathers. These felt they had to be very aschetic in order to be priests and theologians.
I would like to ask why it is that celibacy is the only thing in that survived of that tradition. Where is the other asceticism like serious poverty and fasting?

I am not saying this unhealthy view of sexuality was the only reason but its a historical fact that it played a big part in the decision.

I am agaist people trying to say that protestant pastors are worse at their ministry than priests. The two groups of men have different problems in life. Is truggling with loneliness and isolation somehow a finer struggle than the one to die from your self in a marriage?
I have met pastors and priests that were holy and full of the Holy Spirit and really took care of their flocks. And then I have met pastors and priests who were cold, egocentric and who left their flocks to fend for themselves.
This has nothing to do with married clergy perse.

 

[bobzills]

What about St. Peter, the first Pope?

 

[Tigg]

I consider my self to be a conservative catholic, but am more open to the idea of married preists as a matter of need.

I just randomly saw this thread and it’s interesting because I am reading a book called “With Us Today” (a theology of the Eucharist) which specifically addresses the problem of the shortage of priests. According to the author, the priest shortage is directly linked to the loss of our belief in the Real Presence. The priesthood was instituted mainly to perpetuate Christ’s Sacrifice of Calvary, IN the Sacrifice of the Mass.

You advocate married priests as a matter of need to alleviate their declining numbers. To my way of thinking this is capitulation to modernism and a worldy view. The virtue of celibacy has always been highly lauded throughout the centuries by the saints and doctors of the Church. Clerics know full well upon entering their chosen vocation that they are entering a world “set apart” so to speak and are making magnificent sacrifices for the greater glory of God. That is part of what comprises a vocation to the priesthood; a voluntary acceptance of the state of celibacy and a surrendering of one’s total self to Christ.

I pray we do not see married priests as being the norm ….seems like the crisis of faith has been brought about due to small compromises, here and there. And finally, in this day and age we are reaping what we sow, a full blown crisis of faith.

SACERDOTALIS CAELIBATUS
The Motive for Celibacy

1. Jesus, who selected the first ministers of salvation, wished them to be introduced to the understanding of the “mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,” (29) but He also wished them to be coworkers with God under a very special title, and His ambassadors. (30) He called them friends and brethren, (31) for whom He consecrated Himself so that they might be consecrated in truth; (32) He promised a more than abundant recompense to anyone who should leave home, family, wife and children for the sake of the kingdom of God. (33) More than this, in words filled with mystery and hope, He also commended an even more perfect consecration (34) to the kingdom of heaven by means of celibacy, as a special gift. (35) The motive of this response to the divine call is the kingdom of heaven; (36) similarly, this very kingdom, (37) the Gospel (38) and the name of Christ (39) motivate those called by Jesus to undertake the work of the apostolate, freely accepting its burdens, that they may participate the more closely in His lot.

1. To them this is the mystery of the newness of Christ, of all that He is and stands for; it is the sum of the highest ideals of the Gospel and of the kingdom; it is a particular manifestation of grace, which springs from the Paschal mystery of the Savior. This is what makes the choice of celibacy desirable and worthwhile to those called by our Lord Jesus. Thus they intend not only to participate in His priestly office, but also to share with Him His very condition of living.

1. Inspiring this discipline, which is at once severe and merciful, are justice and truth, prudence and reserve. It is without doubt a discipline which will confirm good priests in their determination to live lives of purity and holiness. At the same time it will be a warning to those aspiring to the priesthood. Guided by the wisdom of those who educate them, they will approach their priesthood fully aware of its obligations and entirely forgetfully of self, responding generously to divine grace and the will of Christ and His Church.
   vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_24061967_sacerdotalis_en.html

 

[Melissa]

You know, it’s funny–just today at Mass, one of our parish’s young men told us all that he has been accepted into a seminary and will be going there later this month.

A few of the things that he cited as helping him along the way to his vocation: his family prayed the Rosary together every evening and made a habit of going to Adoration on a regular basis. He also has been an altarboy at our parish (which only allows boys to serve, incidentally) for years.

So, while the idea of changing the discipline doesn’t matter to me one whit, I don’t think it would be prudent to do so now–and I think we’d get a lot further promoting vocations by praying for vocations after Mass (something else done in my parish every week), promoting frequent Adoration and otherwise embracing that which makes us Catholic in particular rather than generic “church-going people”.

 

[Rolltide]

What about St. Peter, the first Pope?

Although St. Peter was married at some point, the Bible only ever mentions his mother-in-law. Many theologians have argued that St. Peter was widowed before he began his ministry.

 

[Rolltide]

I pray we do not see married priests as being the norm ….seems like the crisis of faith has been brought about due to small compromises, here and there. And finally, in this day and age we are reaping what we sow, a full blown crisis of faith.

Just remember that the married priesthood has always existed in the Eastern Catholic Churches, and they are just as fully Catholic as Latin Catholics. Also remember that for over half of the history of the Latin branch of the Catholic Church, married priests were permitted. Celibacy is a great gift to the church, but changing this discipline would NOT be giving into modernism. It would be returning to an ancient practice.

That said, I personally favor keeping the celibate priesthood as the norm.