Is it time to allow Preists to get married?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

No. This was an example of a Catholic priest, who left and got married. He was then allowed to function as an Orthodox priest, even though he got married after he was ordained a Catholic priest.

The issue is that many orthodox jurisdictions do not recognize the Sacraments as being valid in the Catholic Church so in the eyes of this Orthodox Church he entered he was not a priest.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

As I stated above, there is one EXTREMELY rare scenario where an already ordained priest can get married in the Catholic Church. If an already married priest with very young children has his wife die, he can petition directly to the pope for a dispensation allowing him to potentially remarry, should he find someone with which he wishes to do so.

While I have heard of this “option” I know of no time that it was used. I have heard it was used once with a permanent deacon.

Are there any actual facts and statistics that show when this has been done? If not then it is only speculation and we can not really comment on it as we do not know for a fact that it has happened or would happen.

Anyways, exceptions do not break the rules.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

No that is bad idea. Priests are in a sense married to her(the church). Even Paul tells us that a man can not have two wives. Now more than ever they need to be devoted God and serving their parish or order. Marriage and Holy orders are very important sacraments that should come together. I spoke to my priest about this issue and he even told that many of his protestant pastor friends have trouble doing their duty and juggling a wife/children. So no.

This is not true, the “married to the Church” idea does not work when it is only the Latin Catholic Church that prohibits though discipline the ordination of married men.

If your argument was true then the Byzantine Catholic Churches, which ordain married men, could be said to be guilty of allowing multiple marriages.

 

[Rolltide]

While I have heard of this “option” I know of no time that it was used. I have heard it was used once with a permanent deacon.

Are there any actual facts and statistics that show when this has been done? If not then it is only speculation and we can not really comment on it as we do not know for a fact that it has happened or would happen.

Anyways, exceptions do not break the rules.

I know for a fact that this has happened before, because I saw an article posted by someone on another thread that discussed a priest that this had happened to. I’m trying to search the forum to see if I can find the article, but so far I haven’t had any luck.

 

[bobzills]

The issue is that many orthodox jurisdictions do not recognize the Sacraments as being valid in the Catholic Church so in the eyes of this Orthodox Church he entered he was not a priest.

True.
But still, as a married Orthodox priest, he will be able to confect valid Sacraments, will he not? And he got married after he was a Catholic priest?
I just wanted to add though, that I understand from speaking with some Orthodox Christians, that ordinarily this would not be allowed. In other words, ordinarily, a Catholic priest who came over to the Orthodox Church would not be allowed to marry and then become an Orthodox priest, becaue it would be viewed as breaking his promises. So even in the case I mentioned, it would be very exceptional for this to ever occur.

 

[Tigg]

Just remember that the married priesthood has always existed in the Eastern Catholic Churches, and they are just as fully Catholic as Latin Catholics. Also remember that for over half of the history of the Latin branch of the Catholic Church, married priests were permitted. Celibacy is a great gift to the church, but changing this discipline would NOT be giving into modernism. It would be returning to an ancient practice.

That said, I personally favor keeping the celibate priesthood as the norm.

I acknowledge your point and should have expounded my earlier post since modernism is a rather broad term. Let me just say that our society today does not understand, nor appreciate in a more subtle sense, the gift and virtue, nor the sacrifice of celibacy. In many ways it is disdainful and contemptuous of it. This could be illustrated by the constant attacks against traditional family values and marriage. The very idea of a noble and/or moral excellence (virtue) such as celibacy is foreign on a worldly plane.

You know, it’s funny–just today at Mass, one of our parish’s young men told us all that he has been accepted into a seminary and will be going there later this month.

A few of the things that he cited as helping him along the way to his vocation: his family prayed the Rosary together every evening and made a habit of going to Adoration on a regular basis. He also has been an altarboy at our parish (which only allows boys to serve, incidentally) for years.

So, while the idea of changing the discipline doesn’t matter to me one whit, I don’t think it would be prudent to do so now–and I think we’d get a lot further promoting vocations by praying for vocations after Mass (something else done in my parish every week), promoting frequent Adoration and otherwise embracing that which makes us Catholic in particular rather than generic “church-going people”.

When the new church building is completed, we are switching parishes and our new pastor would agree with your post. In fact, at our last townhall meeting, one of the first things he said he will do is to institute Eucharistic Adoration for the express intention of more vocations. I don’t much buy into the theory the priest shortage is caused by a celibate rule; I personally believe it is another casualty due to the general loss of faith we are experiencing.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

True.
But still, as a married Orthodox priest, he will be able to confect valid Sacraments, will he not? And he got married after he was a Catholic priest?
I just wanted to add though, that I understand from speaking with some Orthodox Christians, that ordinarily this would not be allowed. In other words, ordinarily, a Catholic priest who came over to the Orthodox Church would not be allowed to marry and then become an Orthodox priest, becaue it would be viewed as breaking his promises. So even in the case I mentioned, it would be very exceptional for this to ever occur.

Any priest who gets married is still able to confect valid Sacraments but the fact is that he is really not married as ordination is an impediment to the Sacrament of Holy Marriage.

So in the eyes of the Catholic Church this priest is not married.

 

[bobzills]

Any priest who gets married is still able to confect valid Sacraments but the fact is that he is really not married as ordination is an impediment to the Sacrament of Holy Marriage.

So in the eyes of the Catholic Church this priest is not married.

I thought that there were thousands of laicised Catholic priests who had married? Are you sure that their marriage is not recognised by the RCC?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I thought that there were thousands of laicised Catholic priests who had married? Are you sure that their marriage is not recognised by the RCC?

Now you are mixing apples and oranges.

Are you purposely trying to be a contrarian?

Those priests have formally gone though a process where by the Church relieves them of their priestly duties, they may only hear confessions in the case of an emergency where death is close at hand, any other sacraments by them would be invalid. They went though this process so that their marriage would be valid.

So your comment here just supports that a priest who does not go through this process but attempts to marry is doing something wrong.

This is a useless discussion because priests will never be allowed to marry and still act as a priest in the Catholic Church, the same goes with the Orthodox, they will never allow a priest (who they recognize as a priest) to marry.

 

[bobzills]

Now you are mixing apples and oranges. .

No, it has nothing to do with either apples or oranges. It has to do with the (unlikely) possiblity of a situation where a Catholic priest has been laicised, then marries, then joins the Orthodox Church and then is later accepted as a priest.

 

[Florida_mom]

I look at it this way.

It may seem like a good idea to allow priests to marry, but let’s explore the following:

Deacons don’t go through the “deacodent” (sp? sorry–I slaughtered that) until their children are grown. Often some men try when the children are still at home, but the amount of studying they must do is often interfering with their family. I’ve known some that have dropped. We just received two new deacons in our church. I think one couple is either childless or the kids are long grown and the other has very grown children as well. It takes up so much time without the kids that I cannot imagine what it is like with little ones under foot. Also, the wives participate in the program as well though I am not sure how much.

Father Oprah in Miami–while it seems that he is a good illustration of why it should be allowed, he violated his vow of chastity by fornicating with that woman. While I am happy for him that he has found his new calling of being a spouse–him being the poster child of why priests should marry is just not a positive example. He engaged in pre-marital relations and lived in secrecy. That is not how one moves towards change. He should have left the priesthood when he realized he was in love (and married prior to having sex) since the church does not presently allow it.

My protestant peers–I know several who are pastors or part-time pastors and it is tough. It isn’t the best way to make a living. They don’t have many kids and it is a pressing time issue. And these are SMALL churches.

A priests “job” and ministry is to be available to his parish. How could have have a good family life if he will be so dedicated to the church.

I always thought the priests were married to the church.

For that matter–why don’t we have married nuns?

For sure it isn’t an easy decision to minister for live and live a vow of chastity.

Until there is a better reason for priests to marry than “there’s not enough priest”–we won’t see priests married in our lifetimes and I don’t think that is a horrible thing.

Too many protestant pastors struggle by having a family life AND being the head of their respective church communities.

Why would we want that burden on our priests?

 

[bobzills]

Yes, except that I heard of an exceptional case where this was allowed. It probably almost never occurs, and would be very exceptional.

 

[bobzills]

Why would we want that burden on our priests?

I think the idea was that whether or not the seminarian marries before ordination would be optional and not required.

 

[Florida_mom]

I think the idea was that whether or not the seminarian marries before ordination would be optional and not required.

That would not matter.

I don’t think making it optional instead of a requirement (optional is permission btw!) is not the proper solution to a shortage of priests.

If there was a shortage of teachers or doctors–do we suddenly remove restrictions to make more room for professionals who will be less able to do an appropriate job when they are working? No–we do things to help recruit more and get people prepared for those jobs.

It would stand to reason that it is more approrpiate to pray and encourage more the vocation instead of modernizing the priesthood to fit today’s standards.

 

[bobzills]

That would not matter.

I don’t think making it optional instead of a requirement (optional is permission btw!) is not the proper solution to a shortage of priests.

If there was a shortage of teachers or doctors–do we suddenly remove restrictions to make more room for professionals who will be less able to do an appropriate job when they are working? No–we do things to help recruit more and get people prepared for those jobs.

It would stand to reason that it is more approrpiate to pray and encourage more the vocation instead of modernizing the priesthood to fit today’s standards.

The Eatern Orthodox Church has a married priesthood and it seems like it works OK.

 

[chain]

We have the holy orders for married men in the permanent deacodent (sorry about spelling). This order can do much, while leaving the priesthood’s vows of celibacy.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

No, it has nothing to do with either apples or oranges. It has to do with the (unlikely) possiblity of a situation where a Catholic priest has been laicised, then marries, then joins the Orthodox Church and then is later accepted as a priest.

Again, the only reason he is accepted as a priest in the Orthodox Church is that they do not recognize the sacraments as being valid in the Catholic Church so they ordain him again. He is also re-chrismated as they do not recognize his confirmation either.

It is apples and oranges.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Yes and those that do recognize Catholic orders do not re-ordain the priest nor do they accept men who marry after ordination.

If they do it is most likely a case of oeconomia, that is they would do so because they allow married men to be ordain and the Latin Catholic Church does not so the priest in this case was not given a rightful choice that, they believe, he should have had in the first place.

But even in that case it is an exception and not the rule and they would not allow one of their own priests who was ordained as a celibate to later marry.

 

[Qoheleth]

The Salvation of the Church for this era requires that the Priests will actually be converted to Jesus and stop living with one foot in the world and one foot in Gods Holy Church. Marriage is not the answer. God is.

 

[distracted]

I believe that this time has arrived. There aren’t enough people entering the presithood. This will cause the Catholic Church to become week and cause more people to join evangelical groups. I don’t like this prospect because from what I’ve seen of evangelicals, they are wrong on a lot of things. I don’t agree with much of what they say as far as theology goes.

The fact that there are some married presits shows that it isn’t a bad thing. They must be able to function. I would be curious to hear from somebody who goes to a church where presits are married. Who thinks this will happen over the next 30 years ? I’m comming to believe it would be a good thing.

i don’t think its ever going to change…

but i sometimes wonder if something should be changed… I mean… well, sometimes i think that living without sex for years and years and years is vry unnatural… but then i’ve been doing it… so i don’t know what to think…

but i don’t think the vatican is going to come knocking on my door to find out either…