Is it time to close the Ark? (Depravity is why we can’t evangelize, so let’s focus on seekers with beauty, encounter and family)

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Share God’s love, one person at a time. You may never know who you touched, or who you didn’t. It can keep you busy for the rest of your life, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it alleviates some of the frustration.
I wish I was as good as you at turning the worry switch off. I should count myself as one of the lucky because I have a spouse and a kid and will never have to “bowl alone.” My gut instinct is to share what I have but there are very few takers. So I propose, let’s change the medium but not the message.
 
As an agnostic (just speaking for myself, here), what I can tell you is that actions speak so much louder than words. I was raised Catholic and don’t believe in the faith, other than that I believe in a loving God. But I can tell you this. When I see someone display true Catholic charity, and I learn they are Catholic, it ignites fond memories of the Church in which I was raised. In other words, it keeps me closer to God than I would be if I had not witnessed such acts. On the flip side, if someone tries to engage me about why what I believe is wrong and evil…I’m out.

Try not to worry so much. God has this for all of us.
 
Rebuild the Church from our families and immigrants and just forget about the non-seeker majority culture. It’s too far gone.
Throughout my life and career, I’ve been in secular settings and the vast majority of the people I’ve interacted with are not Catholic and many are not religious. However, only occasionally do I come across somebody that does not appear to me to be seeking God on some level.

I will agree that many in the US are not “low hanging fruit” for a Catholic conversion, but I believe most are seeking God.
 
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we can’t argue away depravity, we certainly can’t argue away politics.
Exactly. But we aren’t called to argue, we are called to love. Our world has a tremendous lack of love and this has created people with horrible wounds and from those wounds come the fruit we see like sexual depravity, greed, etc. We are becoming more and more divided and people equate religion with “do this or else” rather than with the healing, satisfying, and pure love of God the Father that removes their fear and satisfies their soul.

I work with kids. The ones with the “worst behaviors” also have the worst home lives and deal with things I can’t even imagine as an adult. They are desperate for love and guard themselves from further hurt by making people dislike them. They can’t accept that they are worth everything to God. They can’t imagine they are worthy of love. There are others so desperate for love they act out and look for it in all the wrong places and ways. It’s my job to show them they are loved, and they don’t have to jump through any hoops or come up with wild schemes to get it.

The same is true with everyone else. These kids grow up and become adults looking for the love of God but finding sexual immorality, drugs, money, or power to try to fill the hole of love in their lives or reinforce their incorrect self-image.

This is why we are not told to go out and argue. We are called to preach God’s love and that manifest in Jesus Christ. The people lost in sexual immorality et al are the ones who need to hear that most. And even more than they need to hear it they need to see it. We cannot argue someone into believing they are loved - just try it with a spouse or crush! No, you have to show them. God asked us to show them he loves them. That’s our job. And we are absolutely never permitted to give up Because while we were still sinners God never gave up on us. Even to the point of the cross. He gave it everything he had, and so should we. ❤️
 
To be sure, I’m not saying close the doors of the Church. I am saying, stop worrying about the legacy Protestants and non-seeker nones, and fish elsewhere where the catch is.
 
The people who got me interested in Catholicism took a completely different approach; they were unfailingly kind and took me seriously. There was no condescending, “if you knew anything about history you’d know this,” or “your church only exists because the king wanted the Church’s money,” or any of that mess. There was friendly discussion of theological differences. And it was pretty dang effective.
I wish I could give this a hundred zillion ❤️❤️:heart:s

And I’d also like to add, if you’re in the business of evangelizing and witnessing, and you’re at the end of your rope, it’s perfectly acceptable to step back and regroup (that’s what a retreat is).

We humans can’t go at anything full-bore incessantly. And especially in this day and age where we’re facing formidable roadblocks, it’s okay to step back and rest from time to time.

All will not be lost. Other people are still in the fray 🙂
 
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The older I get, the more I believe that we all should be praying, fasting and making reparations and this has to happen before we even have the least hope of effectively evangelizing.
 
The older I get, the more I believe that we all should be praying, fasting and making reparations and this has to happen before we even have the least hope of effectively evangelizing.
“God’s warning is over the world.… Two-thirds of the world is lost, and the other part must pray and make reparation for the Lord to take pity.… The earth is in great danger.” And “At these moments all humanity is hanging by a thread. If the thread breaks, many will be those who do not reach salvation. That is why I call you to reflection. Hurry because time is running out…!”

Our Lady of the Rosary of San Nicolas to Gladys Quiroga… in 1983.

Nineteen Eighty Three.

2/3 lost… 36 years ago.

I don’t want to know what the number is now.

(And yes. It’s approved.)
 
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You prolly know what I’m going to say 🙂 we are not required to believe in a private revelation, even an approved one.

That said, yes, the world is in grave danger.
Has been ever since the Garden.
Which is why we can’t stop praying and making reparations.

The level of direct engagement to the world varies from circumstance to circumstance. Like other have posted upthread, different hearts are moved by different things.

Some Christian groups have actually circled the wagons to allow the “rest of us” to go to Hell in a handbasket (I’m thinking of the Amish). They don’t evangelize and I’m not sure if they even offer up prayers for us.

But we Catholics don’t agree with that approach.

But seriously, if the state of the world is making you heart sore to the point it’s become an obsession, then take a retreat and heal your aches and renew your strength ❤️
 
Let us go a step farther. From the crisis of today the Church of tomorrow will emerge — a Church that has lost much. She will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning. She will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built in prosperity. As the number of her adherents diminishes, so it will lose many of her social privileges. In contrast to an earlier age, it will be seen much more as a voluntary society, entered only by free decision…
Remember that Pope Benedict was speaking as a German, where the major religions operate with state help.

The Church will be a more spiritual Church, not presuming upon a political mandate, flirting as little with the Left as with the Right. It will be hard going for the Church, for the process of crystallization and clarification will cost her much valuable energy. It will make her poor and cause her to become the Church of the meek…
I agree that this will absolutely happen if we here in the US quit allying ourselves with whichever party we decide is the “lesser of two evils” because we want our votes and our political contributions to “count.” (I don’t speak about other places only because I’m ignorant of their politics.)

If we were to press both major US parties on where they fall short, then yes, we will quickly find ourselves welcome in neither and also unwelcome in most of the smaller parties. People willing to expose the warts in their own parties are too much of a political handicap. It is a matter of not being able to serve both God and the pursuit of secular political power, which is a mistress even more demanding than Mistress Mammon.
 
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. In my attempts to nevertheless do so (here at CAF and offline) I have found something disturbing. Protestants seem to always have a beef with Mary, and specifically, with her perpetual virginity.
Certainly the world we live in is corrupt beyond measure. But Protestants denying our doctrines about Mary has been going on since the Reformation. It is a topic one can never win in a debate with Protestants. Talk to any serious convert from evangelicalism, they will tell you that the Church’s teaching on Mary is almost always their biggest stumbling block. One can never win over Evangelicals thru debate on Mary.
 
Certainly the world we live in is corrupt beyond measure. But Protestants denying our doctrines about Mary has been going on since the Reformation. It is a topic one can never win in a debate with Protestants. Talk to any serious convert from evangelicalism, they will tell you that the Church’s teaching on Mary is almost always their biggest stumbling block. One can never win over Evangelicals thru debate on Mary.
Which is why I’m saying debate with them (legacy anti-Catholic Protestants) is a waste of time that could be better spent on genuine seekers. Hiding Mary to win them over is a huge mistake. If they are genuine seekers then Mary will fall into place.
 
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Consider the Anglican Ordinariate. If that’s not an effective evangelization, I don’t know what is.
But just curious. Why are these Anglicans joining the Catholic Church? Is it because they realized and accepted that the CC is the true Church that Jesus founded or because of the problems facing the Anglican Church? I know of a priest who came into the Church with his family long before the Ordinariate and he, after careful study, realized the CC was the real thing, just as some apologist here at CA did careful study and came into Jesus’ Church.

Do these Anglicans now all themselves Catholic or Anglicans in communion with Rome?
Or do they consider them some sort of hyphenated Catholics?

Just curious if there are any former Anglicans here that came into the CC under the ordinariate.
 
But just curious. Why are these Anglicans joining the Catholic Church? Is it because they realized and accepted that the CC is the true Church that Jesus founded or because of the problems facing the Anglican Church?
I can’t speak for them but in the success stories I’ve heard, it’s always the former and never the latter.

Protestantism has a very grim future ahead but no matter how much you try to convince one, you never can. They would rather say that Catholics are declining too and not consider the implications of not having Tradition or Magisterium to protect them from the rising tide of secularism. Once they do realize there’s a problem, they become Catholic but not because they realize the ship is sinking.

A quarter of my family is Episcopalian and they think their church is totally fine. Another quarter is Methodist, same story (but the UMC is in much better shape). Neither is even considering the Ordinariate.
 
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Yes

At least plant the seed and trust God that it grows even if the other person may not seem open to your arguments.
 
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I’m not buying it.

When did the Good Shepherd stop looking for his lost sheep? When did he stop loving the sinner? When does his mercy end?

Never.

I suggest you look a little harder at what you can do for the sinner.
Agreed. Well said.

Whose ‘ark’ is it that we should presume the right to decide to shut its doors?

Someone hasn’t read Genesis 7:16
 
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