Is it too good to be true?

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cemccorkle

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Hello,

I’m currenlty a non-Catholic Christian. 2 months ago I would have described myself as a Protestant, but after some study I feel as if I’m in limbo. I can not honestly agree with Prostestantism any more (for example I’ve seen how Sola-Scriptura is self-refuting and therefore it can not be true). At the same time, I’m feeling drawn to the Catholic Church. While I’m not ready to start the process of joining the Church, I have been reading some great books by Catholics and have been awestruck by the clear love for Christ and humbled by the spiritual depth. My problem is that I feels like “The Catholic Church” might be too good to be true", and that I may be missing seeing some error or falsehood.

Has anyone experienced this that has converted? If so how did you work through it? My biggest concern is that I do NOT want to lead my family away from God and into spiritual danger.

I would also love some reccomendations on reading materials to assit me in this time of discerment.

Thanks and God bless!
 
cemccorkle said:
Hello,

I’m currenlty a non-Catholic Christian. 2 months ago I would have described myself as a Protestant, but after some study I feel as if I’m in limbo. I can not honestly agree with Prostestantism any more (for example I’ve seen how Sola-Scriptura is self-refuting and therefore it can not be true). At the same time, I’m feeling drawn to the Catholic Church. While I’m not ready to start the process of joining the Church, I have been reading some great books by Catholics and have been awestruck by the clear love for Christ and humbled by the spiritual depth. My problem is that I feels like “The Catholic Church” might be too good to be true", and that I may be missing seeing some error or falsehood.

Has anyone experienced this that has converted? If so how did you work through it? My biggest concern is that I do NOT want to lead my family away from God and into spiritual danger.

I would also love some reccomendations on reading materials to assit me in this time of discerment.

Thanks and God bless!
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Corkie,

I was evangelized by Protestant, spent too much time in their services and Bible study and found much of what they professed impossible to believe…

What in particular in Protestant thought can you not agree with other than Sola Scriptura?
 
After leaving the catholic church at 18, my parents barley went and I didn’t know what was going on. I joined an evangical church until I was 33

I returned to the catholic church after reading early church fathers. I rember finding Ignatous of Antioch and polycarp recorded on the London museum of history web site.

I also found codex sinicatus the oldest existing bible discovered in the 1800’s from 300ad had all 73 books

I tried to read historical writings that where not catholic before I read catholic authors but it was hard because the farther you go back in history for Christianity there are few non catholic sources because we where as ephesians 4:5 says for 1500 years “one baptism, one lord and one faith”

The best books
Jimmy akin (early church fathers)
The catechism
Scott hahn (Rome sweet home)
 
You might want to check out books by Scott Hahn. Start with Rome Sweet Home. He was a Protestant who converted to Catholicism. He is very versed in the Bible.
 
Cemccorkle,
I can not honestly agree with Prostestantism any more (for example I’ve seen how Sola-Scriptura is self-refuting and therefore it can not be true).
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I would also love some reccomendations on reading materials to assit me in this time of discerment.
Click to expand...
What in particular do you have issue with regards Sola Scriptura? You ask for some good reading materials in this discernment time. Well in regards to the common arguments thrown around here against the principle of Sola Scriptura, I’d recommend both of the following:
  • The Heresy of Orthodoxy, Michael Kruger and Andreas Kostenburger, Crossway, 2010
  • Canon Revisted, Michael Kruger, Crossway, 2012
I suspect the issues you’re facing with SS are coming from the questions like “how do you know which books belong in the bible?”, or “isn’t that just your private interpretation of the scriptures?”. If so I’d recommend those works, they give a powerful answer.

Others have recommended you look at the early church, which I’m sure you’ve already done a bit of, seems you say you’ve done some study. In this matter I would always recommend looking at the renowned church historian Philip Schaffs quite excellent work, available here: m.ccel.org/index/author/S - simply click on his name to view his complete work list. He provides wonderful commentary on the early church, as well as the text itself.

Kind regards

Lincs
 
Same thing happend to me when I came back to the Catholic Church. Your not alone.

4 things that bugged me, which the devil planted there to try and make me leave the Church, for the other side and to turn on the Church
  1. The Rosary, although I haven’t been praying it that much, it had me thinking is not all prayers directed to God Alone, why pray to Mary?
    The scripture that solved that problem came from Luke 1: 28 and luke 1: 42
  2. Wooden Carvings in the Church. No praying to idols basically. The same problem that everybody else has, You shall not bow to a graven image.
    The scripture that solved that was Kings 8:6-8
  3. Purgatory. The place that protestans say don’t exist.
    In the old Testiment the old prophets and rightous went there after death as a holding cell for entrence, and cleaning. In maccabees Judas said prayers for the dead after a battle. St Paul in Corinthians 3:12-13 said that we have to be burn up to find out if we have any gold, silver or precious stones. It also is said that wood, hay and straw would be burnt up too, and if any man has nothing he shall still be saved. It means that we have to go through the cleaning processes and burning up of person to see what we did in this life.
  4. Priests forgiving Sins. I can go directly to God, true and no.
    Scripture said John 20: 22 “Recieve the Holy Spirit, and what sins you forgive are forgiven them, and what sins you retain are retained.” Priests have the same gift to forgive sins, as a Angel, or a messenger in physical flesh has the right to deliver a message from God to you.
All these things are tricks of the devil to get you to turn on the Church that has been around for 2000 years. Unfortunatly the trick has worked for a long time.

I hope that answers some of you questions. I was there in the same boat as you, but comming from the opposite direction. When I started to see where the answers were coming from which was in the bible itself. It all started to become clear.
 
Adamski said:
After leaving the catholic church at 18, my parents barley went and I didn’t know what was going on. I joined an evangical church until I was 33

I returned to the catholic church after reading early church fathers. I rember finding Ignatous of Antioch and polycarp recorded on the London museum of history web site.

I also found codex sinicatus the oldest existing bible discovered in the 1800’s from 300ad had all 73 books

I tried to read historical writings that where not catholic before I read catholic authors but it was hard because the farther you go back in history for Christianity there are few non catholic sources because we where as ephesians 4:5 says for 1500 years “one baptism, one lord and one faith”

The best books
Jimmy akin (early church fathers)
The catechism
Scott hahn (Rome sweet home)
Click to expand...
You can even read the Fathers at New Advent for free, although there are so many works and they are so massive, it may be best to get the books you mention on them. I am personally considering “The Fathers Know Best” by Jimmy Akin. “Four Witnesses” was good, but didn’t go into enough depth for me.

To the OP, Sola Scriptura is indeed self defeating, especially since the books of the New Testament were disputed for so long, along with which version of the Old Testament was to be used (although it is obvious the LXX was used by early Christians, by the time of the Council of Carthage and Jerome, the Jews had a Hebrew-only canon and didn’t allow any Greek books in). Most non-Catholic Christians actually do not adhere to Sola Scriptura themselves, especially since most believe in the Trinity.

The division among Protestant churches is also a big clue that doctrinal unity is necessary, and that an authority is necessary for that, and that the authority must have it from God. If you read the early Fathers, especially Ignatius of Antioch and Clement of Rome (Apostolic Fathers), they preached heavily on the unity of the Church and obedience to the bishop. Justin Martyr’s “Apology” is wonderful, as is Irenaues’ “Against Heresies”. None of them have any hint of Protestantism, and these Fathers wrote before the canon of Scripture was determined.

I encourage you to continue on your pursuit. Read the Fathers, keep an open mind, and ask God to reveal His truth to you. I am confident that you will find the Church. I will pray for you!
 
Lincoln7 said:
Cemccorkle,

What in particular do you have issue with regards Sola Scriptura? You ask for some good reading materials in this discernment time. Well in regards to the common arguments thrown around here against the principle of Sola Scriptura, I’d recommend both of the following:
  • The Heresy of Orthodoxy, Michael Kruger and Andreas Kostenburger, Crossway, 2010
  • Canon Revisted, Michael Kruger, Crossway, 2012
I suspect the issues you’re facing with SS are coming from the questions like “how do you know which books belong in the bible?”, or “isn’t that just your private interpretation of the scriptures?”. If so I’d recommend those works, they give a powerful answer.

Others have recommended you look at the early church, which I’m sure you’ve already done a bit of, seems you say you’ve done some study. In this matter I would always recommend looking at the renowned church historian Philip Schaffs quite excellent work, available here: m.ccel.org/index/author/S - simply click on his name to view his complete work list. He provides wonderful commentary on the early church, as well as the text itself.

Kind regards

Lincs
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How can a Protestant not say that an interpretation is not merely personal? There are thousands of denominations and they all claim the same authority. Also, the actual texts of the Fathers has no hint of Protestantism, unless heavy, heavy eisegesis is used. In the first two centuries of Christianity, the Real Presence, regenerative baptism, and the authority of bishops and the Church in determining disputes regarding Scripture and morals, are all present. The early Church preached unity to avoid heresy and maintain a single faith. How does Protestantism align with the Fathers in accomplishing this, especially when they can’t even agree on interpretation of their only source of doctrine?
 
Lincoln7 said:
Cemccorkle,

What in particular do you have issue with regards Sola Scriptura? You ask for some good reading materials in this discernment time. Well in regards to the common arguments thrown around here against the principle of Sola Scriptura, I’d recommend both of the following:
  • The Heresy of Orthodoxy, Michael Kruger and Andreas Kostenburger, Crossway, 2010
  • Canon Revisted, Michael Kruger, Crossway, 2012
I suspect the issues you’re facing with SS are coming from the questions like “how do you know which books belong in the bible?”, or “isn’t that just your private interpretation of the scriptures?”. If so I’d recommend those works, they give a powerful answer.

Others have recommended you look at the early church, which I’m sure you’ve already done a bit of, seems you say you’ve done some study. In this matter I would always recommend looking at the renowned church historian Philip Schaffs quite excellent work, available here: m.ccel.org/index/author/S - simply click on his name to view his complete work list. He provides wonderful commentary on the early church, as well as the text itself.

Kind regards

Lincs
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Lincs,

Why would you recommend Philip Schaff looking through the Retrospectoscope when it would be best to read contemporary writers of the times…Schaff has an agenda as seen here…

He writes with an inherent bias concluding that the Reformation was as important as the Apostolic Age…
I publish the history of the Reformation in advance of the concluding volume on the Middle Ages, which will follow in due time.
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and then follows with this
The Reformation was a republication of primitive Christianity, and the inauguration of modern Christianity. This makes it, next to the Apostolic age, the most important and interesting portion of church history.
Click to expand...
 
PeaceInChrist said:
How can a Protestant not say that an interpretation is not merely personal? There are thousands of denominations and they all claim the same authority. Also, the actual texts of the Fathers has no hint of Protestantism, unless heavy, heavy eisegesis is used. In the first two centuries of Christianity, the Real Presence, regenerative baptism, and the authority of bishops and the Church in determining disputes regarding Scripture and morals, are all present. The early Church preached unity to avoid heresy and maintain a single faith. How does Protestantism align with the Fathers in accomplishing this, especially when they can’t even agree on interpretation of their only source of doctrine?
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Note I never denied an interpretation is “personal”. The language is unhelpful however, I simply posit that regardless of your creed, we are all active participants in the texts that we read. We bring to them our own worldview and thus true objectivity is a myth. No, Protestant denominations don’t all claim the same authority, most point to the word of God as the sole infallible authority. You make a sweeping claim about the early church, that simply isn’t true. I expect now the masses of out of context quotes that abound on google to appear…

Kind regards

Lincs
 
Coptic Christian,
Why would you recommend Philip Schaff looking through the Retrospectoscope when it would be best to read contemporary writers of the times…Schaff has an agenda as seen here…
Click to expand...
He writes with an inherent bias concluding that the Reformation was as important as the Apostolic Age…
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I recommend schaff as simply diving into the early church, trying to read every single father, is quite a feat, that would take simply years, thus an overview is most helpful.

Agenda is a very string word, with many negative connotations. If you wish to say he is “unbiased”, then of course. There is no such thing as “unbiased”, everyone irrespective of denomination, or indeed faith, has a worldview. As NT Wright notes in the opening of his groundbreaking “The New Testament and the People of God”; “Every human community shares and cherishes certain assumptions, traditions… Which create contexts within which certain kinds of statements are perceived as making sense.” (1). This is as true of schaff as it is of every catholic scholar, theologian or indeed; any layman.

So of one wishes to portray schaff as not being objective, well; “There is no such thing as the ‘neutral’ or ‘objective’ observer; equally, there is no such thing as the detached observer.” (2). Again, this pertains to all scholars. So Scahff cannot be dismissed on the grounds of being ‘biased’, only if one can actually refute what he is saying.

Kind regards

Lincs

(1) & (2) - The New Testament and the People of God, NT Wright, SPCK, 1996, pg 36
 
Lincoln7 said:
Coptic Christian,

I recommend schaff as simply diving into the early church, trying to read every single father, is quite a feat, that would take simply years, thus an overview is most helpful.

Agenda is a very string word, with many negative connotations. If you wish to say he is “unbiased”, then of course. There is no such thing as “unbiased”, everyone irrespective of denomination, or indeed faith, has a worldview. As NT Wright notes in the opening of his groundbreaking “The New Testament and the People of God”; “Every human community shares and cherishes certain assumptions, traditions… Which create contexts within which certain kinds of statements are perceived as making sense.” (1). This is as true of schaff as it is of every catholic scholar, theologian or indeed; any layman.

So of one wishes to portray schaff as not being objective, well; “There is no such thing as the ‘neutral’ or ‘objective’ observer; equally, there is no such thing as the detached observer.” (2). Again, this pertains to all scholars. So Scahff cannot be dismissed on the grounds of being ‘biased’, only if one can actually refute what he is saying.

Kind regards

Lincs

(1) & (2) - The New Testament and the People of God, NT Wright, SPCK, 1996, pg 36
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Lincs,

I am biased for what is true. The Protestant Deformation/Reformation is nothing close to the Apostolic age…

Read through this posting and tell me that you believe that the Reformers were…

On A Mission From God?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=757561
 
You have come to a great place to ask questions and find wonderful books to read and research. Best of luck with your quest, and may you find your answers.
 
Lincoln7 said:
Cemccorkle,

What in particular do you have issue with regards Sola Scriptura? You ask for some good reading materials in this discernment time. Well in regards to the common arguments thrown around here against the principle of Sola Scriptura, I’d recommend both of the following:
  • The Heresy of Orthodoxy, Michael Kruger and Andreas Kostenburger, Crossway, 2010
  • Canon Revisted, Michael Kruger, Crossway, 2012
IOthers have recommended you look at the early church, which I’m sure you’ve already done a bit of, seems you say you’ve done some study. In this matter I would always recommend looking at the renowned church historian Philip Schaffs quite excellent work, available here: m.ccel.org/index/author/S - simply click on his name to view his complete work list. He provides wonderful commentary on the early church, as well as the text itself.

Kind regards

Lincs
Click to expand...
To refute the above:

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1858224/posts

How I Solved the Catholic Problem (in 3 parts)
Envoy Magazine ^ | Kristine L. Franklin

And finally, the Protestant notion of sola scriptura (the Bible alone) fell apart each time I tried to test it. I began to see that Evangelicalism’s insistence on going by the Bible alone led continually into division and problems. Worse yet, claiming to go by the Bible alone didn’t really provide any certitude of belief for believers.

With all the competing voices, how was one to know who was right? What mere man could stand up with a clear conscience before a group of illiterate people and say, “This is what the Bible means?” The sheer arrogance of what was going on made it difficult for me to listen to sermons after a while. All of them were “preaching the gospel.” But whose gospel? I wondered. Around that time, a more fundamental question loomed: What is the gospel?

This is the point at which I began to have serious doubts about the doctrine of sola scriptura. I noticed that the early Church did not follow the Protestant concept of going by the Bible alone. That was a shocker! My study of the early Church showed that Scripture and Sacred Tradition, promulgated by the Church’s teaching magisterium, was the model of authority for the early Christians.
 
Lincoln7 said:
Note I never denied an interpretation is “personal”. The language is unhelpful however, I simply posit that regardless of your creed, we are all active participants in the texts that we read. We bring to them our own worldview and thus true objectivity is a myth.

There is a big difference between you and your friends…when compared with Catholics.

Your worldview of what you read is influenced by a rejection of parts of Christianity you do not agree with…like the Real Presence, Apostolic Succession, a sacramental priesthood, bishops and priests, Mary and the saints…the 7 sacraments…this is just a few.

We, catholics, on the other hand…take all of original Christianity…and do not reject any.
No, Protestant denominations don’t all claim the same authority,
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I joined the Catholic Church last year. I had previously been Pentecostal, Baptist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran LCMS. I was looking for Truth. I knew that truth could not be relative, that it was not inside me. I even wondered that, when I did hear truth, would I even recognize it to be truth. I had so often before thought I knew truth and turned out to be wrong. I knew Truth had to exist, that it could not exist in all the different Protestant denominations. The Catholic Church states in their Catechism that they have the fullness of truth. I recommend reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the early Church fathers, and Edward Sri’s A Biblical Walk Through The Mass: Understanding What We Say and Do in the Liturgy, a very good book. Of course, I run into “Catholics” who disagree with the Church’s doctrines. There will be many. But recall: Jesus is the Head of the Church; the Church is His Body; He will not deceive His Body. Regardless of what others are doing, listen to the Catholic Church, trust it, and you will find the happiness that surpasses all.
 
Tommy555 said:
I joined the Catholic Church last year. I had previously been Pentecostal, Baptist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran LCMS. I was looking for Truth. I knew that truth could not be relative, that it was not inside me. I even wondered that, when I did hear truth, would I even recognize it to be truth. I had so often before thought I knew truth and turned out to be wrong. I knew Truth had to exist, that it could not exist in all the different Protestant denominations. The Catholic Church states in their Catechism that they have the fullness of truth. I recommend reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the early Church fathers, and Edward Sri’s A Biblical Walk Through The Mass: Understanding What We Say and Do in the Liturgy, a very good book. Of course, I run into “Catholics” who disagree with the Church’s doctrines. There will be many. But recall: Jesus is the Head of the Church; the Church is His Body; He will not deceive His Body. Regardless of what others are doing, listen to the Catholic Church, trust it, and you will find the happiness that surpasses all.
Click to expand...
Are you still an active Catholic? You list your religion as Protestant.
 
CopticChristian said:
Lincs,

I am biased for what is true. The Protestant Deformation/Reformation is nothing close to the Apostolic age…

Read through this posting and tell me that you believe that the Reformers were…

On A Mission From God?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=757561
Click to expand...
CopticChristian,

And that is what your reading of history tells you, my reading indicates much similar with much (but not all) of Protestantism.

The quotes appear to be very, very detached from context. Do you ave the primary sources for them? I recommend some time looking at beggars all, to see the quotes looked at contextually, not polemically. - beggarsallreformation.blogspot.co.uk/

Regards

Links
 
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