Is it true the church changed the Sabbath?

[hope]

Although I agree with most of what you wrote this jumps out at me

Also what Jesus came to accomplish was not to update Judaism ; BUT rather to introduce an ENTIRELY NEW RELIGION; one respecing past Traditions, while a the same time making sure there were sufficient differences so as to insure that what He was doing WAS new.

Jesus said Matthew 5:17-20
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished

All the sacraments and the priesthood can be found in the Old Testament but fulfilled in the new. As for the Sabbath, Jesus in Matthew 12:8 states that He is Lord of the Sabbath, He gave the Keys to Peter which is the authority to worship on Sunday.
I disagree that it was a new religion but rather fulfilled.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Is it true that the church changed the Sabbath day?

I think the answer is yes, and no. Yes, the Christian obligation on keeping the Sabbath has changed. And, no, the Church did not change it, but more accurately, God made the change.

This is explained rather thoroughly by St. John Paul II, here…

Deis Domini, On Keeping the Lord’s Day Holy
https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-...uments/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini.html

 

[fredystairs]

Blanchardmsn

If you are saying that both the Church and Barnabas are referring to the eighth day as Sunday, the day that Christ rose, then I agree with you.

 

[fredystairs]

Dear Hope

I tend to agree with you, that it is a fulfillment. The Early Church Fathers made the same argument. During the early period of the Church, the Roman Empire made a prohibition against any new religions. The Jews were allowed to keep their religion because by that time it was ancient. The ECF argued that the Faith was not new but a fulfillment of the Jewish faith and as such should be allowed. I am not near my reference books so I cannot check for sure, but I think at least St. Justin Martyr makes this argument.

Blessings

 

[blanchardman]

Go back and read post 73 again.

 

[hope]

Let me clear up your doubt.
Church Father St Augustine in letter 55 states:

The life originally bestowed was not eternal, because man sinned; but the final rest, of which the seventh day was an emblem, is eternal, and hence the eighth day also will have eternal blessedness, because that rest, being eternal, is taken up by the eighth day, not destroyed by it; for if it were thus destroyed, it would not be eternal. Accordingly the eighth day, which is the first day of the week, represents to us that original life, not taken away, but made eternal.

Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians

“To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ, whom the children of perdition, the enemies of the Saviour, deny, “whose god is their belly, who mind earthly things,”

 

[FrDavid96]

You misunderstand me. I do not object to the midnight part ending the day – I object to the sunset part beginning the day.

The Church defines this in Liturgical law. Canon Law and Liturgical Law complement each other. That is expressed in Canon 2.

In Liturgical Law, solemnities (and only solemnities) begin on the evening-before the calendar day (the calendar day begins at Midnight).

Solemnities end at midnight, when the next calendar day begins.

For solemnities, the Church follows the biblical understanding of a day, which begins at sunset. But then combines the modern concept of the transition at midnight at the other end of the day in order to allow the maximum time for fulfilling the obligation of Mass and to extend the liturgical day of solemnities.

That’s why the Church has no Saturday evening prayer. It doesn’t exist. There is only First Vespers of Sunday.

 

[FrDavid96]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The chart helps a lot.
It could be improved by adding the Last Supper as well.

 

[FrDavid96]

I doubt if anyone would refer to Sunday as the eighth day unless it was the eighth day of something. The eighth day of the month. The eighth day of lent. The eighth day of Passover?

It is poetic license.

A week has only 7 days. We speak of Sunday as the 8th day (the day after the 7th) as a poetic way of saying that God is eternal, and the 8th day represents that never-ending-eternity.

It’s not a phrase to be taken literally, but poetically. Does it make more sense now?

 

[phil19034]

But celebrating the Lord’s Day is not the same thing as keeping the Sabbath. Of course the distinction is ancient (although the Apostles kept both the Lord’s Day as well as Shabbat - they were Jews) but they kept both days to distinguish themselves as followers of Jesus.

Do you think keeping the Sabbath is part of the Mosaic Law that Christians no longer follow? It’s pretty high up there in the Ten Commandments. So perhaps we should call them the NINE Commandments then.

Food for thought

One thing to keep in mind is that throughout the Christian world, we have a two day weekend. Both Saturday and Sunday.

In the non-Christian world, it’s not uncommon to have a 6 day work week.

Saturday was a day of rest while Sunday was a day of worship.

However, today, we have turned Friday night and Saturday into party days, which is not good.

God Bless

 

[FrDavid96]

ComplineSanFran:

But celebrating the Lord’s Day is not the same thing as keeping the Sabbath. Of course the distinction is ancient (although the Apostles kept both the Lord’s Day as well as Shabbat - they were Jews) but they kept both days to distinguish themselves as followers of Jesus.

Do you think keeping the Sabbath is part of the Mosaic Law that Christians no longer follow? It’s pretty high up there in the Ten Commandments. So perhaps we should call them the NINE Commandments then.

Food for thought

One thing to keep in mind is that throughout the Christian world, we have a two day weekend. Both Saturday and Sunday.

In the non-Christian world, it’s not uncommon to have a 6 day work week.

Saturday was a day of rest while Sunday was a day of worship.

However, today, we have turned Friday night and Saturday into party days, which is not good.

God Bless

Not really. Saturday was considered a work day into the early 20th century. It wasn’t considered a day of rest in any Christian sense.

American society added Saturday as a secular day of leisure because we reached the point where we could be comfortable enough that we no longer needed, strictly speaking, to work for 6 days in order to provide enough food and goods.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

ComplineSanFran:

But celebrating the Lord’s Day is not the same thing as keeping the Sabbath. Of course the distinction is ancient (although the Apostles kept both the Lord’s Day as well as Shabbat - they were Jews) but they kept both days to distinguish themselves as followers of Jesus.

Do you think keeping the Sabbath is part of the Mosaic Law that Christians no longer follow? It’s pretty high up there in the Ten Commandments. So perhaps we should call them the NINE Commandments then.

Food for thought

One thing to keep in mind is that throughout the Christian world, we have a two day weekend. Both Saturday and Sunday.

In the non-Christian world, it’s not uncommon to have a 6 day work week.

Saturday was a day of rest while Sunday was a day of worship.

However, today, we have turned Friday night and Saturday into party days, which is not good.

God Bless

Not really. Saturday was considered a work day into the early 20th century. It wasn’t considered a day of rest in any Christian sense.

American society added Saturday as a secular day of leisure because we reached the point where we could be comfortable enough that we no longer needed, strictly speaking, to work for 6 days in order to provide enough food and goods.

OH - I stand corrected. I guess I thought that the Christian world always had a two day weekend.

 

[phil19034]

Titivillus:

You misunderstand me. I do not object to the midnight part ending the day – I object to the sunset part beginning the day.

The Church defines this in Liturgical law. Canon Law and Liturgical Law complement each other. That is expressed in Canon 2.

In Liturgical Law, solemnities (and only solemnities) begin on the evening-before the calendar day (the calendar day begins at Midnight).

Solemnities end at midnight, when the next calendar day begins.

For solemnities, the Church follows the biblical understanding of a day, which begins at sunset. But then combines the modern concept of the transition at midnight at the other end of the day in order to allow the maximum time for fulfilling the obligation of Mass and to extend the liturgical day of solemnities.

That’s why the Church has no Saturday evening prayer. It doesn’t exist. There is only First Vespers of Sunday.

Does Thanksgiving (in the United States) have the rank of a Solemnity? Because I know of some parishes that are having “Thanksgiving Vigil” masses tomorrow. But I don’t know if they are using the liturgy of Wednesday or Thursday Mass.

Thanks & God bless

 

[FrDavid96]

Does Thanksgiving (in the United States) have the rank of a Solemnity? Because I know of some parishes that are having “Thanksgiving Vigil” masses tomorrow. But I don’t know if they are using the liturgy of Wednesday or Thursday Mass.

Thanks & God bless

No. It’s not a vigil Mass as such. Although that word “vigil” is often misused. A vigil Mass can actually be any Mass in the evening or night. It’s like saying “morning Mass” just means Mass in the morning.

Technically it is a “Mass for special needs and occasions” which is a subset of Votive Masses. Note votive not vigil.

Such a Mass can be used on either Wednesday evening or Thursday anytime.

NOT because of the secular holiday, but because that votive Mass can be used on weekdays in Ordinary Time.

If there is an obligatory feast, the pastor can dispense from the norm and allow a votive Mass in favor of a special need of the parish. The holiday counts as a “special need.”

There are a number of different options for that Mass. It might be “in thanksgiving at harvest time” or “for a civic need” or “in thanksgiving for Gods blessings” (I’m typing from memory here). There is no one “Thanksgiving Day Mass” as such. Although there is a proper preface for Thanksgiving Day that was approved for the U.S. only.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

Does Thanksgiving (in the United States) have the rank of a Solemnity? Because I know of some parishes that are having “Thanksgiving Vigil” masses tomorrow. But I don’t know if they are using the liturgy of Wednesday or Thursday Mass.

Thanks & God bless

No. It’s not a vigil Mass as such. Although that word “vigil” is often misused. A vigil Mass can actually be any Mass in the evening or night. It’s like saying “morning Mass” just means Mass in the morning.

Technically it is a “Mass for special needs and occasions” which is a subset of Votive Masses. Note votive not vigil.

Such a Mass can be used on either Wednesday evening or Thursday anytime.

NOT because of the secular holiday, but because that votive Mass can be used on weekdays in Ordinary Time.

If there is an obligatory feast, the pastor can dispense from the norm and allow a votive Mass in favor of a special need of the parish. The holiday counts as a “special need.”

There are a number of different options for that Mass. It might be “in thanksgiving at harvest time” or “for a civic need” or “in thanksgiving for Gods blessings” (I’m typing from memory here). There is no one “Thanksgiving Day Mass” as such. Although there is a proper preface for Thanksgiving Day that was approved for the U.S. only.

Thanks Father,

So, does this mean that a Wednesday night mass can use the same liturgy as the Thursday mass, as seen in the OCP Missals in the pews?

 

[FrDavid96]

Thanks Father,

So, does this mean that a Wednesday night mass can use the same liturgy as the Thursday mass, as seen in the OCP Missals in the pews?

Yes. It can.

But that’s coincidence.

On Wednesday evening, the priest can celebrate a votive Mass.

On Thursday the priest can celebrate a votive Mass.

In this particular situation, one really has nothing to do with the other.

And it does not have to be the Mass listed in the missalettes. There are several different Masses available and the priest is free to choose from any of those options.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

Thanks Father,

So, does this mean that a Wednesday night mass can use the same liturgy as the Thursday mass, as seen in the OCP Missals in the pews?

Yes. It can.

But that’s coincidence.

On Wednesday evening, the priest can celebrate a votive Mass.

On Thursday the priest can celebrate a votive Mass.

In this particular situation, one really has nothing to do with the other.

And it does not have to be the Mass listed in the missalettes. There are several different Masses available and the priest is free to choose from any of those options.

Thank you Father!
God Bless and Happy Thanksgiving to you

 

[BartholomewB]

Fr David.—Please allow me to add an observation that I am fully aware is only a pedantic quibble, but it lies at the root of a lot of this talk about “transferring the Sabbath.” It’s just a quirk – possibly a regrettable quirk, but I wouldn’t insist on that – of the English language that we have taken over and anglicized the Hebrew word “shabbat” to designate Sunday instead of Saturday. As far as I’m aware, this has happened in no other language. In Italian, for instance, sabato means both Saturday and the (Jewish) Sabbath, but never Sunday. The same is true, I believe, of French , Spanish, German and so on. In some of these languages the word for “Sabbath” can sometimes be found in the sense of a witches’ sabbath, but never in the sense of the day that the Christians keep holy. If for any reason they don’t want to use the name “Sunday” they can call it “the Lord’s day” (e.g. le jour du Seigneur), or “the day of rest” or some other phrase of that kind. But never the “Sabbath”!

 

[hope]

I am confused perhaps you can clarify it for me. As far as I know, Sabbath even in the English language means Friday sundown to Saturday Sundown. I have never heard that the Sabbath was Sunday.

 

[Techno2000]

Also, did they have a right to Change it?

Yes…

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Matthew 16:19