Is it true?

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Sister_Amy said:
Islam is a religion which prohibits force in matters of faith. So there is no such thing as “admittedly forceful” when Islam clearly prohibits such force.
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There is some force, perhapse not in Islam but certianly in Islamic governments such as Malaysia which desterms weather one is Muslim or not by something like our old “one drop” rule executions for leaving the faith in some countries, general propaganda and censorship in the media etc.
 
perhaps it’s just a “plot” of the media to say that muslims are violent.
 
Sister_Amy said:
perhaps it’s just a “plot” of the media to say that muslims are violent.
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It is true that no one is forced to become Muslim. So what are the choices in a Muslim Country for non-Muslim. Well it is not religious freedom

You have three choice in Muslim countries
  1. Convert to Islam
  2. Do not convert and pay a Jizya Tax to Muslim Overloards. Also, Non-muslims are not allowed to train clergy or build or repair churches.
  3. Be executed for not paying Jizya or converting.
Wow, some Choice with Islam.

Also, if you are a Muslim and Convert to another religion, it is punishable by death.

So, there is no compulsion, BUT religious freedom, I think not.
 
Flying_Bison said:
It is true that no one is forced to become Muslim. So what are the choices in a Muslim Country for non-Muslim. Well it is not religious freedom

You have three choice in Muslim countries
  1. Convert to Islam
  2. Do not convert and pay a Jizya Tax to Muslim Overloards. Also, Non-muslims are not allowed to train clergy or build or repair churches.
  3. Be executed for not paying Jizya or converting.
Wow, some Choice with Islam.

Also, if you are a Muslim and Convert to another religion, it is punishable by death.

So, there is no compulsion, BUT religious freedom, I think not.
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How do you define a Muslim country?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Islam is a religion which prohibits force in matters of faith. So there is no such thing as “admittedly forceful” when Islam clearly prohibits such force.
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Sister Amy while I believe you that Islam prohibits such force I personally know Christians in Muslim countries to whom pressure is being applied to because of their refusal to convert. So it seems what Islam says and what Muslims do are different things.
 
LDNCatholic said:
So it seems what Islam says and what Muslims do are different things.
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Indeed. Would you say that all Christians in the world obey the commands of Christianity to a “T?” I’d think not. Especially people who are Christian in little more than name.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Indeed. Would you say that all Christians in the world obey the commands of Christianity to a “T?” I’d think not. Especially people who are Christian in little more than name.
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There is a difference however, very few countries identify as ‘‘Catholic’’, whereas the persecuted belivers I know currently reside in nations that identify as Islamic.
 
LDNCatholic said:
There is a difference however, very few countries identify as ‘‘Catholic’’, whereas the persecuted belivers I know currently reside in nations that identify as Islamic.
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I said “Christian,” not Catholic.

And as my Catholic brother-in-law (not to mention countless politicians) informs me with disdain, I live in a “Christian country” (i.e., the USA.) (He informs me with the intention that I understand how I, as a Muslim, should kowtow to Christians. :rolleyes: You guys are so much nicer.)
 
Sister_Amy said:
I said “Christian,” not Catholic.

And as my Catholic brother-in-law informs me with disdain, I live in a “Christian country” (i.e., the USA.) (He informs me with the intention that I understand how I, as a Muslim, should kowtow to Christians. :rolleyes: You guys are so much nicer.)
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Your brother-in-law is simply wrong. The USA is not in any way a Christian country.

“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,4 - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

Signed and sealed at Tripoli of Barbary the 3d day of Jumad in the year of the Higera 1211 - corresponding with the 4th day of Novr 1796.

secular.embassyofheaven.com/usa/tripoli.htm#ARTICLE%2011
 
I agree with you, I think. But believe it or not, it is a frequent claim among Americans these days that the religious identity of the United States is in fact Christian. And it’s legitimate–Judeo-Christian principles did play a role in the legal code, didn’t they? 10 Commandments in the court house and all that, don’t we remember?

Especially in the Cold War, I think, Americans came out as being strongly Christian–opposed to the “godless” Soviets.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I agree with you, I think. But believe it or not, it is a frequent claim among Americans these days that the religious identity of the United States is in fact Christian. And it’s legitimate–Judeo-Christian principles did play a role in the legal code, didn’t they? 10 Commandments in the court house and all that, don’t we remember?

Especially in the Cold War, I think, Americans came out as being strongly Christian–opposed to the “godless” Soviets.
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That web page was built and maintained by Christians, who want to change things. Feel free to send your brother-in-law the address if you think he’d like it.

The U.S. was designed from its inception to be a secular country. The principles on which the U.S. was founded are the same principles which the USSR (and, for that matter, Baathist Iraq and Syria) was founded on (the enlightenment ideas of freedom of conscience).

It used to be that individual school districts could teach the Bible, if their students wanted it. This changed during the cold war. Do you know why? Part of the reason is due to the fact that we couldn’t compete with the USSR if we kept denying scientific principles in favor of myths! The Soviets took the secular ideas of government (separation of church from state) from us and from France, after their revolution, then we took their separation of school from church from them. 🙂 Kids can still learn about God, but now they have to do it on Friday, Saturday or Sunday rather than during the week.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Do you think that secularism is better than religion?
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Yes absolutely. It gives us the freedom to worship (or not) as we like on our own time, and keeps one group from taking control of public life.

It’s like in Israel/Palestine, with these people fighting all the time. How are you going to have peace if you think your neighbors are less than human because they aren’t Jewish? Much better to treat people equally, no matter what they believe, and allow them to make their own decisions.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I said “Christian,” not Catholic.

And as my Catholic brother-in-law (not to mention countless politicians) informs me with disdain, I live in a “Christian country” (i.e., the USA.) (He informs me with the intention that I understand how I, as a Muslim, should kowtow to Christians. :rolleyes: You guys are so much nicer.)
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Is your husband a Muslim?
 
Sister_Amy said:
😊 I’m not married.

My bro-in-law is my sister’s husband.
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Oh:blush:

Sorry:p

I thought that implied you had a Christian husband, which obviosuly be a problem in Islamic law I beleive, so I was confused.

If I may ask, as you are unmarried, how do you handly things like getting male permission to make a pilgirmage to Mecca and such?(not trying to pry, just cusious, if it’s non of my buisness please feel free to say so)
 
Sister_Amy said:
I said “Christian,” not Catholic.

And as my Catholic brother-in-law (not to mention countless politicians) informs me with disdain, I live in a “Christian country” (i.e., the USA.) (He informs me with the intention that I understand how I, as a Muslim, should kowtow to Christians. :rolleyes: You guys are so much nicer.)
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Well I’m not an American. and as a Christian I tell you not to kowtow to any man.

Your brother in law is wrong and the U.S is not a ‘‘Christian country’’
 
IvanKaramozov said:
Oh:blush:

Sorry:p

I thought that implied you had a Christian husband, which obviosuly be a problem in Islamic law I beleive, so I was confused.

If I may ask, as you are unmarried, how do you handly things like getting male permission to make a pilgirmage to Mecca and such?(not trying to pry, just cusious, if it’s non of my buisness please feel free to say so)
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I don’t have any male Mulsim relatives, nobody from whom to ask permission. If I were married, I would give my husband the courtesy of telling him where I’m going… lol.

As far as going for Mecca, if I were to never get married and never had a “mahram” who could take me, then I would have the option, according to many scholars to go with a group of women.

As it is, I don’t ask anyone’s permission and I go out by myself by for perfectly benign reasons like… going to the mosque, work, school, grocery store, my parents’, etc. 🙂
 
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