Is it wrong for a Catholic woman to work and have a family?

[severus68]

Gen 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.” 17* And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life; 18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

From the very begining when Adam listen to his wife, God cursed the ground because of Adam’s sin and proclamied that the husband shall rule over the wife. God then charged Adam with the “Role” that he would toil (provide for) the rest of his life.

These are God given roles, not worldly stereotypes.

“I wholeheartedly agree. I hate those stereotypes as well and try to deconstruct them when I see them, too.”

Eve is still alive and well…

MULIERIS DIGNITATEM

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/1988/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19880815_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

"Therefore when we read in the biblical description the words addressed to the woman: “Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you” (Gen 3:16), we discover a break and a constant threat precisely in regard to this “unity of the two” which corresponds to the dignity of the image and likeness of God in both of them. But this threat is more serious for the woman, since domination takes the place of “being a sincere gift” and therefore living “for” the other: “he shall rule over you”. This “domination” indicates the disturbance and loss of the stability of that fundamental equality which the man and the woman possess in the “unity of the two”: and this is especially to the disadvantage of the woman, whereas only the equality resulting from their dignity as persons can give to their mutual relationship the character of an authentic “communio personarum”. While the violation of this equality, which is both a gift and a right deriving from God the Creator, involves an element to the disadvantage of the woman, at the same time it also diminishes the true dignity of the man. "

Let’s not say what was a description of a great wrong caused by sin, what God wants.

 

[Sarcelle]

So all of those unmarried, chaste, God-fearing women…who surprise aren’t nuns…are, clearly, not following God’s will for women. I’d love to see my MIL read this thread. She’d get a kick out of it. She is divorced and unmarried and her two children are grown adults with families of their own.
She lives in a small apartment that doesn’t need much caring for. And, of course, no husband to dote upon.
What is she to do?
Oh, that’s right. She goes to work full time.

I’m sorry…but we are getting dangerously close to the barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen scenario.

God-forbid I step outside for some fresh air.

“ARGHHH…bright light, bright light, bright light!”

Yup. I’m single, not a nun, and after months of unemployment thankfully employed. I am clearly going to hell.

I can see myself going to confession

“Father I have sinned. I went to work yesterday.”

How about married couples who manage their own businesses? My grandparents were shop owners who owned their own mom and pop grocery store. Later on my grandfather opened his own restaurant. Both my grandparents worked at this businesses. My aunts, uncles cousins also worked at this restaurant. It was the family business.

Is my grandmother sinning because she helped her husband in their business?

 

[Sarcelle]

Dear kelfa28,

Hello again and cordial greetings. Thankyou for your response.

First, may I just say that I truly sympathise with your plight and current hardships and I know from personal experience how difficult things can be owing to a shortage of cash.

However, dear sister, that many wives are compelled to work for economic reasons is a hackneyed argument continually trotted out in discussions of this kind. Whilst I freely admit that the working poor are struggling to pay essential utility bills, keep a roof over their head, pay for medical insurance (in the US) and generally keep body and soul together, the fact is that in the West we have come to expect a certain quality of life and consider ourselves impoverished if we cannot have this life. Moreover, as a consequence of the prosperity that we have enjoyed in previous years before the economic downturn, we have sadly become a people who are gready of gain. We have not been contented with such things as we have and have had an insatiable desire for material prosperity, often showing little concern for the prosperity of our souls and the earnest pursuit of holiness. Therefore, whilst I appreciate that many ordinary people, myself included, are living in straightened circumstances with wholly insufficient means to meet even the most basic of needs, yet we are not homeless and still have computers and can pay for interweb access etc. We probably also have television sets and a few other little luxuries, so we are not actually living on the margins of society and for this we must give thanks unto God. In the UK, because of the Government’s ‘tough love’ approach to welfare reform, many sick and unemployed are at risk of being made homeless because of harsh caps on housing benefit payments (I was discussing this at great length here on CAF earlier this month). St. Paul’s words spring to mind: “I have learned in whatsoever state I am therewith to be content”; “Having food and raiment let us therewith be content” and “godliness with contment is great gain”.

The more, dear sister, that godless secular feminism persuades women of the superior status and rewards of work outside of the home, the more that married women will seek it and this must have a jolly huge impact on men’s job opportunities. How sad today that in many households you have both spouses going out to work, whilst in others the poor husband cannot even find a job to support his family. Moreover, who can honestly deny that both spouses going out to work has not contributed to inflation and a want of affordable housing. After all house prices inevitably reflect joint incomes these days, which makes it exceedingly difficult and well-nigh impossible for poor one wage families to purchase a home, which means that they must pay exorbitant rents. Thus many have suffered considerably as a result of the departure from the biblical and Catholic family paradigm of married women staying at home and the husband being the breadwinner. The modern Western world is paying a heavy price, in more ways than one, because of the subversive and godless ideology of radical aberrant feminism and people today need to think about the damage this has caused to family life.

God bless, dear sister, and I will pray that your circumstances improve and that your husband will find suitable work in the not too distant future.

Warmest good wishes and prayers,

Portrait

Pax

How about sending some money to Kelfa28 while her husband looks for work?

This could help her from having to find outside employment and help her be the keeper at home which you say is ideal for women.

 

[Rence]

I don’t remember who it was that said this, and perhaps it wasn’t portrait… but someone did say once on here that unless a woman either gets married and has babies, or becomes a nun, she is selfish and not fulfilling her duties here on earth.

Ha! Ok, I’ll get married…in a few years when I reach menopause. AND, I’m keeping my career.

In the meantime, I am so enjoying living a single but chaste life And no, I’m no nun. No interest in that at all.

 

[Kelfa28]

How about sending some money to Kelfa28 while her husband looks for work?

This could help her from having to find outside employment and help her be the keeper at home which you say is ideal for women.

It’s way too bright and scary outside!

Good news though…hubby may have found a job. It’s not rock solid but it’s looking good right now.

 

[Kelfa28]

The ideal is fine if your husband has the job to support it. (or the wife, either one). Not militant, a realist. A man working at Lowe’s, Jiffy Lube, or anything in the service area is not going to be able to support a family, wife is going to have to get out there help, as in help-mate. My husband is retired, and love, love, love having him at home and me at work. Had I had the brains to finish college, he would have been the choice to stay home with kids. Mama always told my sister and I, “Learn how to do something, I don’t care if it’s tasting pies in a pie factory or sweeping leaves under a hall tree, LEARN a skill, go to school. She who waits for her knight, will clean up after his horse.”

No, I disagree. A man can certainly support his family doing a service job if he knows how to budget and is wise with his money. It might be tight…but it can be done.

My husband can support our little family just fine without a fancy degree. He’s probably going to start doing landscaping work.

Come to think of it…neither of us have degrees and we certainly aren’t living paycheck to paycheck. We’ve got way more savings then most people twice our age.

I will probably finish up my degree within the next five years or so…I can use the GI bill and get paid.
But my husband always says that he will be responsible for the mortgage…even if he has to panhandle at the airport…he will get it paid on time every month.

 

[Debora123]

No, I disagree. A man can certainly support his family doing a service job if he knows how to budget and is wise with his money. It might be tight…but it can be done.

I think a lot of it too depends on where you live. Some places are just soooo much more expensive than others, without the same difference in average income.

 

[Kelfa28]

I think a lot of it too depends on where you live. Some places are just soooo much more expensive than others, without the same difference in average income.

That is true.

We do live in an area that is less expensive then other parts of our state and my husband and I have always been really good with our finances and have never had issues paying the bills.

Life was better before we got married and had our daughter. Both of us, combined, made 6 figures.
We saved a lot of money because we knew that this wasn’t going to last…and it didn’t. But we tried to prepare for it as best as we could.

Some people can’t live on that kind of income if they have other bills like credit cards or medical bills or student loans.

 

[Kensho]

This is a topic that brings forth so much anger that it is usually not productive to hash it out. I’m not going to post again, myself.

Answer to the OP’s question: No, the Church does not teach that married mothers should not have jobs. That is a prudential decision. I would urge you and your future wife to arrive at a decision that is based upon your actual circumstances and guided by two millenia of Catholic teaching. Be prepared to do what you didn’t expect, however. Prepare to be shocked and jolted more than once, for the world is uncertain.

 

[Kelfa28]

This is a topic that brings forth so much anger that it is usually not productive to hash it out. I’m not going to post again, myself.

Answer to the OP’s question: No, the Church does not teach that married mothers should not have jobs. That is a prudential decision. I would urge you and your future wife to arrive at a decision that is based upon your actual circumstances and guided by two millenia of Catholic teaching. Be prepared to do what you didn’t expect, however. Prepare to be shocked and jolted more than once, for the world is uncertain.

Boy is this true!

Marriage does not conform to these perfect little boxes that everyone wants.

Not everyone can have two working parents that magically juggle kids, activities, vacations and the large house with the 2 cars and flat screens and PS3s.

At the same token…not everyone can manage to keep mom home while dad goes to work and provides for the whole family.

Sometimes our plans look good on paper but can’t seem to work in practice…so we all need to adjust our strategies to make life work.

If a family is raising well adjusted, well fed and happy children…you can’t tell them they are doing it wrong because mom isn’t home.
At the same time you can’t tell a family that they are doing a disservice to their family if they don’t plan on keeping mom home.

Married couples need to discuss how the dynamics of their home will operate…that is true…but they also need to discuss what will happen when these dynamics don’t work and they need to move on to plan b.

 

[Sarcelle]

It’s way too bright and scary outside!

Good news though…hubby may have found a job. It’s not rock solid but it’s looking good right now.

I will pray for you and your husband. I hope he gets the job.

I can definitely sympathize. Being unemployed is scary.:sad_yes:

 

[jonathan_hili]

I just wonder because a lot of times I hear how more traditional Catholics have families where the dad works and the mom stays at home. While think that stay at home moms are ridiculed in our society and should be WAY more appreciated, is it wrong for Catholic women to work and have a family, or am I just some flaming liberal here (BTW i’m hardly a womens rights type of guy, I just think if a wife has a family and wants to work, go ahead. In fact i’d probably rather have my wife work since i’m a teacher and I don’t make much money.) I just feel conflicted because i’m drawn more to traditional catholicism, but don’t necessarily want the housewife type of girl to marry.

Short answer: No.

The traditional household, or more correctly, the division of labour among the traditional household, is just as much a result of social factors as human nature. In fact, until only recently, everyone worked: women shared roles on the farm or land, as did men; upper class women ran households, as did men.

One may argue from Scripture and Tradition that a wife is subject to her husband’s (loving) authority, but this does not mean she can’t work, pursue a career, etc.

 

[Lochias]

Can you please share this information?

People have already quoted numerous writings and opinions by ECFs and Popes in this thread. A couple pages up, there’s a good one by JP II.

 

[Lochias]

Oh goodness… that’s not what I was arguing against in the least (I hope you saw my full post above!!!)…

I’m responding to the question of whether it’s “wrong”. (it’s not… there’s nothing the church TEACHES about it being wrong)
I’m also responding to the women who seem to be saying that it’s “right” to work out of the home. (it’s not… again, no TEACHING about it - sorry, I think I used the word “opinion” incorrectly there)
(^that’s the “trite banter” I was referring to, those back-and-forths before in the thread)…

Agreed entirely with the beautiful quote above from Bookcat…

Ah, gotcha. Sorry about the misunderstanding.