Is it wrong to enjoy secular entertainment?

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@edwest2: I don’t believe it is a sin to view something that has something vulgar or violent in it (unless the vulgarity is real, as in pornography). Just viewing something does not make the viewer complicit, even if the maker of the product is. Is there too much gratuitous violence in modern movies, shows, etc.? Yes. But there is also good and enjoyable content in them too, and as Christians, we should always try, as St. Paul taught, to examine all things, leave the bad and retain the good.

The complicity of watching/listening to something produced by the secular media with immoral things in it is more dependent, I believe, on the acceptance of the viewer than on the actual viewing/listening to itself. For example, if I listen to a song that has a bad word in it and I then start using that word myself, I allowed that song to lead me to do something immoral. But if I can listen to it, enjoy the good and leave the bad, then there is no sin. As I said before, this is why some things are appropriate for adults and not children, because children’s minds are often not as able to discern between what is acceptable and what is not (at least, this is the common wisdom). God bless.
 
We live in a fallen world. If we are to spread the Word of God we must interact and knowing the playing field is a good way to understand how to form a plan.
 
Of course it is not wrong to enjoy secular entertainment. Joy is one one of the most important emotions that we can experience. In fact enjoyment is probably preferable to many of the other emotions we experience. Otherwise, why would we have the capability to experience joy? Isn’t it the converse of experiencing pain and suffering?

But like anything , it is critical that we look at how our emotions affect us in the context of our faith. Just as pain and suffering experienced for selfish ends is not appropriate, neither is enjoying things that debase what we believe in.

When we enjoy things that make us better people for even a moment , it is probably a reminder from God that we are doing the right thing. When we look at the whole of Jesus’ teachings we see the amount of time that he was concerned with alleviating the suffering of others and how He was involved not only in sharing peoples’ troubled times but He was with them in times of joy as well.
 
@edwest2: I don’t believe it is a sin to view something that has something vulgar or violent in it (unless the vulgarity is real, as in pornography). Just viewing something does not make the viewer complicit, even if the maker of the product is. Is there too much gratuitous violence in modern movies, shows, etc.? Yes. But there is also good and enjoyable content in them too, and as Christians, we should always try, as St. Paul taught, to examine all things, leave the bad and retain the good.

The complicity of watching/listening to something produced by the secular media with immoral things in it is more dependent, I believe, on the acceptance of the viewer than on the actual viewing/listening to itself. For example, if I listen to a song that has a bad word in it and I then start using that word myself, I allowed that song to lead me to do something immoral. But if I can listen to it, enjoy the good and leave the bad, then there is no sin. As I said before, this is why some things are appropriate for adults and not children, because children’s minds are often not as able to discern between what is acceptable and what is not (at least, this is the common wisdom). God bless.
As someone who works in the media, I think I can say with some confidence that there is no reason for anyone to expose themselves to the vulgar. Listening and watching are passive experiences and more coducive to acceptance than someone standing in front of you and saying or singing that vulgar word, or performing some vulgar act.

If it’s a sin to do it yourself, why watch someone else do/sing it?

Peace,
Ed
 
We live in a fallen world. If we are to spread the Word of God we must interact and knowing the playing field is a good way to understand how to form a plan.
Interact with what? The message is clear: tell people who Jesus Christ is. We don’t need to wallow in the mud with them. There is no playing field. This is not a game. Immoral media is immoral media. Jesus did not associate with prostitutes and sinners to enable them. There is no mystery in knowing what people do, especially if they are standing on a street corner, soliciting men walking by for a “date.”

Peace,
Ed
 
Of course it is not wrong to enjoy secular entertainment. Joy is one one of the most important emotions that we can experience. In fact enjoyment is probably preferable to many of the other emotions we experience. Otherwise, why would we have the capability to experience joy? Isn’t it the converse of experiencing pain and suffering?

But like anything , it is critical that we look at how our emotions affect us in the context of our faith. Just as pain and suffering experienced for selfish ends is not appropriate, neither is enjoying things that debase what we believe in.

When we enjoy things that make us better people for even a moment , it is probably a reminder from God that we are doing the right thing. When we look at the whole of Jesus’ teachings we see the amount of time that he was concerned with alleviating the suffering of others and how He was involved not only in sharing peoples’ troubled times but He was with them in times of joy as well.
It’s definitely wrong in most cases. We should pursue the good and the virtuous.

Peace,
Ed
 
Entertainment should not require you to close your eyes or ignore the bad words or other bad parts.
That is irrelevant to the OP.
It should be clean and wholesome. Something the entire family can watch.
“Clean and wholesome” and “Something the entire family can watch” are not congruous. There are plenty of morally permissible movies that I would not want my children watching. The Church certainly believes so.
Moroever, many, especially the youth, relish the so called inane ‘nerd humour’, laughing at what is profoundly unfunny
“Nerd humor” is not a thing – please explain what you mean.
In this whole matter of secular entertainment, dear brother, we must always remember that we are ‘aliens and exiles’ in this world and thus it behoves us to avoid becoming too engrossed in its pleasures and certainly its extra to the normal indulgences.
Which does not mean that we need to shun all secular entertainment.
Thank you for your polite reply. There were many war movies before Saving Private Ryan that the whole family could watch.
That does not make them worth watching.
All that was added to that movie was graphic blood and gore.
You see it as that. Many persons would see it as the only permissible representation of a horrific subject.
I think we all should have definitive standards. You’re right, certain things are too intense for kids but I don’t need to see graphic blood and gore to be entertained.
Art is not only about entertainment.
Like I wrote earlier, the old war movies showed enough to get the point across. I also think some Catholics think it’s OK to see or hear certain things because they’re adults now. My view is that if it was a sin when you were a kid then it’s still a sin when you’re an adult.
You are engaging in a rhetorical sleight-of-hand that betrays your inability to construct an argument:
  1. Something that may be inappropriate for a child is not necessarily “sinful.” I would not want my young child to read “Catcher in the Rye,” but the moral dimension of sin is absent from this decision. Thus, your argument is constructed on an assumption, not a fact.
  2. Something that would be a sin to show to a child may be sinful because he is a child. You cannot simply handwave away the difference.
Who would’ve thought that a TV show about a Police crime lab tech whose hobby is kidnapping and slicing people apart as a hobby would be on TV today? Hmm?
That show does not exist on TV today, so it is hardly an issue.
Thank you so much for your clarity and charity. These are things I sorely miss since they were both far more common before the end of the 1960s. Children were taught good manners and good habits, were taught a level of responsibility according to their age and, of course, were taught what was right from what was wrong.
That is not true.
I believe that all entertainment should be suitable for the entire family
Why? The Church certainly does not believe that.
If it’s a sin to do it yourself, why watch someone else do/sing it?
Good question – the fact that you asked it shows us that you are incapable of appreciating the use of art to direct others to God.
 
It’s definitely wrong in most cases. We should pursue the good and the virtuous.
Which does not necessarily mean consuming only that art which has only good and virtuous actions within it.
 
@edwest2: I don’t believe it is a sin to view something that has something vulgar or violent in it (unless the vulgarity is real, as in pornography). Just viewing something does not make the viewer complicit, even if the maker of the product is. Is there too much gratuitous violence in modern movies, shows, etc.? Yes. But there is also good and enjoyable content in them too, and as Christians, we should always try, as St. Paul taught, to examine all things, leave the bad and retain the good.

The complicity of watching/listening to something produced by the secular media with immoral things in it is more dependent, I believe, on the acceptance of the viewer than on the actual viewing/listening to itself. For example, if I listen to a song that has a bad word in it and I then start using that word myself, I allowed that song to lead me to do something immoral. But if I can listen to it, enjoy the good and leave the bad, then there is no sin. As I said before, this is why some things are appropriate for adults and not children, because children’s minds are often not as able to discern between what is acceptable and what is not (at least, this is the common wisdom). God bless.
Dear scameter18,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

Whilst viewing a film or TV programme which contains some unsavoury or violent content may not be a sin per se, it can, dear friend, present an occasion of sin, in addition to deadening our sensibilities to immorality and brutality. We cannot escape spiritually unscathed by passively watching morally depraved and reprehensible media, for that which is deplorably bad and mind polluting can only have a negative spiritual impact upon us in the long run - “Bad company ruins good morals” (I Cor. 15: 33). Let us not delude ourselves, unwholesome media/literature poisons the mind and demoralizes the life.

In his Epistle to the Phillipians St. Paul encourages us to think on “whatever is pure” (Phillip. 4: 8), and that necessarily excludes all that contains debasing elements and which is therefore tainted and corrupt. Obviously, dear friend, films and TV programmes that contain vulgarity and excessive brutality hardly measure up and viewing them will, at length, leave a blot upon the conscience and a stain upon the character.

If we are serious about the pursuit of holiness and pleasing God in all things, how can we passively watch, for example, scantily clad women in a film/TV series behaving in a degrading manner? Again, can we watch culturally unwholesome material that is peppered with profanity and ribaldry and which makes its appeal to man’s baser passions? Why should we even give such worthless stuff our time and risk polluting our mind and desensitizing us to immorality?

Our lot, dear friend, is sadly cast in a morally degenerate age and it is difficult enough striving to be pure and holy, thus why should we make the battle against impurity and sin more of an arduous task than it already is?

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
This is something I have wondered about for some time, and something I’ve discussed with Catholics in the past, but I wanted to address it more directly. As a Roman Catholic, is it immoral to do things like listen to “modern” music that sometimes contains themes or references or coarse language that is not appropriate for a Catholic to do themselves? Can we enjoy the music for itself without being tainted by some negative things in it? Also, can we watch movies that fit into this category too (I don’t mean something that is immoral to even watch, like pornography), to enjoy the movie itself even if it has some immoral things in it? And, is it immoral to listen to music/read books/watch movies composed by non-Catholic Christians, such as modern Christian rock music? How does this apply to other things, like art, fiction, nonfiction, etc.? Thanks for the help. God bless. 🙂
Know that there is something much better than secular entertainment. It’s your spiritual journey toward God, which is always in need of ‘cultivation.’
 
If it’s a sin to do it yourself, why watch someone else do/sing it?
Ed: As you are well aware, if this was the Catholic standard, then no Catholic could, in good conscience, read any part of the Bible, nor watch a movie about the Bible, nor listen to stories about the Bible, etc.

So obviously, this is not a Catholic standard.
 
That is irrelevant to the OP.

“Clean and wholesome” and “Something the entire family can watch” are not congruous. There are plenty of morally permissible movies that I would not want my children watching. The Church certainly believes so.

“Nerd humor” is not a thing – please explain what you mean.

Which does not mean that we need to shun all secular entertainment.

That does not make them worth watching.

You see it as that. Many persons would see it as the only permissible representation of a horrific subject.

Art is not only about entertainment.

You are engaging in a rhetorical sleight-of-hand that betrays your inability to construct an argument:
  1. Something that may be inappropriate for a child is not necessarily “sinful.” I would not want my young child to read “Catcher in the Rye,” but the moral dimension of sin is absent from this decision. Thus, your argument is constructed on an assumption, not a fact.
  2. Something that would be a sin to show to a child may be sinful because he is a child. You cannot simply handwave away the difference.
That show does not exist on TV today, so it is hardly an issue.

That is not true.

Why? The Church certainly does not believe that.

Good question – the fact that you asked it shows us that you are incapable of appreciating the use of art to direct others to God.
Wow! Where did you get that? Next time, you’ll be reported for making false assumptions about another poster.

Peace,
Ed
 
Wow! Where did you get that? Next time, you’ll be reported for making false assumptions about another poster.
You can report me all you like – if you are referring to my last statement and if you honestly believe what you said, then it is clear that you are unable to understand the role of art because your statement violates Church teaching, as explained here. If you think you have a case, let the moderator decide. But we both know that my statement is accurate and syllogistic.
 
Entertainment should not require you to close your eyes or ignore the bad words or other bad parts. It should be clean and wholesome. Something the entire family can watch. The same applies to books, art and magazines.

In a sense, by constantly hearing, seeing and reading certain things, we meditate on them. Instead, we should find healthy outlets for our desire to be entertained. People go to parks, they build things like model kits and they read magazines and books that contain nonoffensive material. I read books about history.

However, things have gotten so bad regarding the media over the last 40 years that a former Catholic TV news reporter has released this book.

amazon.com/Noise-Media-saturated-Dominates-Dismantles-Families/dp/1932927948

Hope this helps,
Ed
i agree with U. But i dont think that its nessecarily a sin to enjoy something that’s partially OK, partially not OK, as long as you ignore the bad and negative and sinful parts.
 
Ed: As you are well aware, if this was the Catholic standard, then no Catholic could, in good conscience, read any part of the Bible, nor watch a movie about the Bible, nor listen to stories about the Bible, etc.

So obviously, this is not a Catholic standard.
This, along with my own prior statements, remain my position on this issue. I think that realism is a necessary part of art, as is prudence on the part of the recipient. Excluding violence, vulgarity, etc. when it would realistically be present is a betrayal of truth and gives a false view of the world to the viewer. However, adding it in simply for the purpose of desensitizing or legitimizing it to the viewer is also wrong, but it is not automatically sinful for the viewer/listener; it is a matter of prudence. Catholicism is not about throwing out the good simply because there is a little bad in it. If we did, we would throw out the Bible, all of Church history, all lives of the saints, and anything that any non-Catholic has ever composed, since all of it is tainted with sin. Really, we would have to abandon the world entirely, and that is an error that was refuted by the Church long ago against the Albigensians and the like. So, this is my position. God bless.
 
i agree with U. But i dont think that its nessecarily a sin to enjoy something that’s partially OK, partially not OK, as long as you ignore the bad and negative and sinful parts.
Dear Sky River,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. A very warm welcome to the world of CAF and I trust that you will find your time here spiritually profitable and informative.

Your comment above, dear friend, is, I am sorry to say, a widely held opinion among many contemporary Catholics, but unfortunately it is an untenable position for those who profess the holy religion of Christ.

Many men, including not a few Catholics, take for granted these days that you can assimilate a certain amount of immoral entertainment containing profantity and gratuitous violence and yet not be adversely affected by it. It is tacitly assumed that if we are mature grown-ups possessed of a sufficient rational faith, then we will be able to sift through various media containing the good, the bad and the very ugly without being spiritually damaged or tainted by it. We are told, to use your words, that if we “ignore the bad and negative and sinful parts”, or look away from them, then that will suffice and we can just savour the good parts of a film/TV programme. Now, dear friend, given this sort of approach, is it any wonder that you have the very sad state of affairs where professing Catholics are seemingly quite happy to view graphically dramatised murders, semi-pornographic sequences and material peppered with profanity and ribaldry. To put it succinctly, many have allowed themselves to become indifferent to that which is plainly debased and have accepted the normalization of corruption. However, this hardly sits comfortably with a profession of religion and every Catholics call to holiness (CCC paras. 2013-2015) , which necessarily entails the renunciation of all that is contrary to our holy calling. Permitting ourselves even small doses of “partially not OK” content is worldly conformity(see Rom. 12: 2) and very spiritually unhealthy worldly conformity at that. Moreover, it is tantamount to saying that it is alright for those that profess godliness to allow themselves to watch a little immorality and a little graphic violence, notwithstanding that it is, at length, likely to dull and blunt their spiritual sensitivities - “Bad company ruins good morals” (I Cor. 15: 33); "Can a man carry fire in his bosom and his clothes not be burned? Or can one walk upon hot coals and his feet not be scorched? (Prov. 6: 27,28). By watching media containing even a small amount of debased elements, we are playing with fire because this dross is a distracting and demoralizing influence as regards our pursuit of sanctity and separation from the godless world.

Our objective, dear friend, is to cultivate an ever more intimate uinion with our Blessed Saviour and to enter into the life everlasting. Therefore, given that the whole course of this mortal life is a state of probation it surely makes good sense to avoid all worldly conformity and the befouling of our souls with debased media. Of course, it is not necessary to forbid ourselves all secular entertainment and no one here has argued for that, but we had better be jolly vigilant as to what we watch or listen to, especially given the prevailing decadence and lowered public opinion these days. As edwest has observed in this thread, things have waxed worse and worse in the last forty years and film and television producers are continually pushing the envelope that little bit further and seeing what they can get away with. As Catholics an obligation is laid upon us, given our call to holiness, to not only give a wide berth to debased media but to denounce it in the strongest terms as material that calculated to corrupt public morals and lower the whole tone of society - “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them”, as St. Paul puts it.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
i agree with U. But i dont think that its nessecarily a sin to enjoy something that’s partially OK, partially not OK, as long as you ignore the bad and negative and sinful parts.
Imagine that one morning, a father tells his children he’s going to make them brownies. They are delighted. The father then tells them he’s going to add a very small amount of dog excrement to the mix, and assures them that they won’t be able to smell or taste it.

Later, when the brownies are done, the kids refuse to eat them.

I can think of a few TV shows that if I could cut out the bad, negative and sinful parts, I could then watch them. However, for a half hour show, that means about 5 to 8 minutes of total viewing time.

Peace,
Ed
 
Dear Portrait,

Again, dear brother, you remind us of what we should be doing. For some, going to the movies or coming home and turning on the TV have become habits. There was a brief time in my past when I was ignoring the bad and brushing it off as “Oh, that’s not so bad.” Then God sent me a friend who woke me up from my indifference, a malady among Catholics of which Pope Benedict has spoken of. I had the good fortune of mentoring a young screenwriter recently who is now working on his first script for a name movie producer. He is very intelligent and has a great deal of knowledge in many areas. I was quite impressed by him and his work. When the issue of profanity in movies came up in a discussion, he simply said that he is able to ignore it.

We should be joyful that when we were once captives of sin, Christ has set us free. And He told us, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” So, we can enjoy our lives. In Psalm 1:2, we are told: “But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.”

Why should we be mindful, and reminded, often, about his law? Too many of us are putting in one hour of Church a day, and getting only a fragment of what we need. I dare say that for some, it appears once they leave the Church building, a mental shift in gears occurs, from God ON to God OFF, and they immerse themselves in too many things that the world asks us to meditate on. Those messages and images and public behaviors become a part of us. This happens so that we feel like we “fit in,” or that we’re part of our social circle. Two very close friends of mine told me of the strange looks and words of surprise they got from coworkers when they found out they didn’t watch TV. In their home, the TV is used to play certain movies. Once they received a phone call from a survey company asking them to name their favorite TV shows, but they couldn’t name any current shows. When asked why, my lady friend responded: “Too many TV shows are about tops and bottoms and we’d rather not watch.”

Much like trying a less harmful drug, the media gradually increases the dosage and then adds more harmful drugs as we become hooked. The full phrase is “pushing the envelope of what people find acceptable.” Which people? Christian people. The people who wish to “push the envelope” are fine with it. TV shows and movies are planned, scripts are screened for content, and sexual content, profanity and other unsavory elements are gradually added over the years. It would be wrong to give a blanket condemnation to Hollywood or to any particular screenwriter or production company, but I know it’s true that directors are still subject to those who have the ability to tell them they’ve gone too far. I’ve read one account where a director wanted a certain amount of skin in a particular scene for 30 seconds. When he was told that was too long, a bargaining session began, cutting it down to 20, then 15 and finally settling on 10 seconds. You see, these people know the effect it will have on the viewer. Contrary to prevailing misconceptions, modern man is the same person we read about in the Bible. Take away our gadgets and we would immediately go back to farming, horses and candles.

The evidence is that the pornography industry that began in the 1970s is gradually merging with the totally incorrectly named, mainstream media. But 40 years of gradual poisoning will find too many of us defenseless or too weak spiritually and mentally to speak up and say, “enough is enough.”

Some have implied that they wouldn’t know what to do if they stopped much of their TV viewing, or cut the numbers of movies they saw down to a few. So, like drug addicts, they feel they are being told to cut down their drug usage. But they fear withdrawal, they fear the loss of those thrills and highs - that their lives would become dull since “what else is there?”

Our faith needs to be lived daily. And we should be actively and fully conscious of the world around us. We cannot afford to be passive. We just can’t. I know that it is far easier to go with the crowd, to imitate others, to get their approval so we can join in. This stems from a desire to avoid feeling lonely or left out or considered odd. How, some of us may think, can I have any friends if we all can’t talk about the latest movie or TV show? Or even cross into territory we should not? We have been conditioned to follow the path of least resistance.

And I speak to myself as I write all this, but too many of us take an emotional approach to most any sort of commentary like this, with some taking offense, all the way up to: “How dare you tell me what to watch, read or hear? How dare you imply that I am not mature enough in my faith to know these things?”

My dear brothers and sisters in Christ, are some of us taking in too much bad with the good? As the lines between “soft porn” and graphic porn get blurred, our ability to see what’s wrong will grow dimmer and dimmer until some of us become blind. I won’t bring up the more extreme examples, but some of us, especially the young, look at the picture of life and how to live as presented by the media as good or average. No, the media does not force us to behave in certain ways but that’s why advertisers spend millions of dollars on ads that are designed to influence our behavior. I would argue that TV programs and movies do much the same thing.

Peace,
Ed
 
“Too many TV shows are about tops and bottoms and we’d rather not watch.”
What about the TV shows that are not like that?
You see, these people know the effect it will have on the viewer.
They also know what will make money and what won’t. My guess is that money is the driving force for the execs.
Some have implied that they wouldn’t know what to do if they stopped much of their TV viewing, or cut the numbers of movies they saw down to a few. So, like drug addicts, they feel they are being told to cut down their drug usage. But they fear withdrawal, they fear the loss of those thrills and highs - that their lives would become dull since “what else is there?”
Strawman.
How, some of us may think, can I have any friends if we all can’t talk about the latest movie or TV show?
Who thinks like this? I do not know a single person who does. Also, I would say many modern movies are, in fact, NOT objectionable. Could you point out major movies that have been released this year that are morally unacceptable?

No one has argued that pornography should be allowed. But your posts are so vague as to be useless.
 
What about the TV shows that are not like that?

They also know what will make money and what won’t. My guess is that money is the driving force for the execs.

Strawman.

Who thinks like this? I do not know a single person who does. Also, I would say many modern movies are, in fact, NOT objectionable. Could you point out major movies that have been released this year that are morally unacceptable?

No one has argued that pornography should be allowed. But your posts are so vague as to be useless.
If my posts are useless then why bother with responding?

Peace,
Ed
 
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