Is it wrong to fantasize?

[Lost_Wanderer]

I don’t really mean sexual fantasies but I occasionally (okay, make that often) have bouts of extreme loneliness. I mean I know I’m only twenty and there are probably a lot of people out there who say I seem to be in a hurry. Still, ever since high-school I’ve only had one crush and I was always surrounded by couples.

Every time I get these bouts, I start having daydreams between my author avatar and one of my fictional characters (what’s even dumber is that these characters all have similar qualities so I’m pretty much just fantasizing about my ideal girl…). I’ve even written a few scenes (which I obviously find embarrassing whenever I read them). The fact that I like reading stories about romance (be it about a normal girl who falls for a rich dude or a guy who ends up having to choose from a selection of girls who all have feelings for him) just makes it worse.

Tell me, is this wrong? Do I need help? Advice appreciated.

 

[JRKH]

Very short answer -
No it is not wrong to fantasize - depending upon the subject of course.

The problem would come in when there is too much fantasizing and it interferes with normal relations.

Rather than dwelling on fictional characters you should spend time among real people.

Peace
James

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

The problem would come in when there is too much fantasizing and it interferes with normal relations.

Rather than dwelling on fictional characters you should spend time among real people.

Well I’ve heard this advice before and while it’s a good one, it just doesn’t seem enough for me. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of friends who are girls. All of them are far from what I’m looking for though.

 

[grandfather]

Well I’ve heard this advice before and while it’s a good one, it just doesn’t seem enough for me. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of friends who are girls. All of them are far from what I’m looking for though.

The chances are that you will meet a young woman who interests you. I don’t think you can create her in your imagination and then your fantasy princess will come into your life. So in that sense you are wasting your time, but it is not wrong. People normally imagine outcomes they would like to see happen, or desire, in all kinds of circumstances. It would be wrong if we desired an imagined evil for someone.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

The chances are that you will meet a young woman who interests you. I don’t think you can create her in your imagination and then your fantasy princess will come into your life. So in that sense you are wasting your time, but it is not wrong. People normally imagine outcomes they would like to see happen, or desire, in all kinds of circumstances. It would be wrong if we desired an imagined evil for someone.

I wonder about that you know? I mean, what if your expectations aren’t really too much? What if the girl you want is possible but not just common where you are at? I mean, it’s not that hard to create a believable person in your mind. Most often the most well-made fictional characters nowadays are ones that are humanly imperfect.

 

[Shin]

I don’t think, at the least, that this is healthy for you.

It would be best for you to learn to live without these fantasies.

Pray over it. Deny both the loneliness and the fantasies directly, do not indulge either emotion. I think you’ll find all addictions and vulnerabilities of this sort are not good for your soul and whether sin or not (setting that question aside for the moment), lead to it, and are not healthy.

It’s best to cut them off cold turkey.

I could say more but I think I’ll leave it at that.

Except that ‘fantasy’ is on some old Examinations of Conscience. There’s a reason, and it has to do somewhat with the preceding. We live where we are, and are who we are, and we need to totally face up that and learn to live there with God, not leave the struggle.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I don’t think, at the least, that this is healthy for you.

It would be best for you to learn to live without these fantasies.

Pray over it. Deny both the loneliness and the fantasies directly, do not indulge either emotion. I think you’ll find all addictions and vulnerabilities of this sort are not good for your soul and whether sin or not (setting that question aside for the moment), lead to it, and are not healthy.

You think I haven’t prayed? You think I haven’t asked God why I had to live my life (and still do) feeling downtrodden and dejected? I have and the only response I get is a silent hint to keep waiting. How much longer do I have to wait? How much more do I have to take?

If anything fantasizing just helps me cope. Is that really so bad to you? What are your alternatives?

 

[Shin]

You think I haven’t prayed? You think I haven’t asked God why I had to live my life (and still do) feeling downtrodden and dejected? I have and the only response I get is a silent hint to keep waiting. How much longer do I have to wait? How much more do I have to take?

If anything fantasizing just helps me cope. Is that really so bad to you? What are your alternatives?

The reason you feel this way is that you indulge that emotion instead of rejecting it. You think on some level you -should- feel this way.

Also you watch these things to ‘cope’ which actually are like drugs, they addict you to the idea of feeling what they offer, rather than a healthy emotional life. In other words the shows are part of the problem, not coping mechanisms – they give you a temporary relief, but reinforce the emptiness.

Cut off the shows, cut off the anime, cut off the fantasies, cold turkey. When you feel lonely, cut off the feeling cold turkey, consider the feeling come from Hell.

You will doing this start learning to stand on your feet again, instead of being enslaved by these emotions.

I know you don’t want to do this. I know you don’t want to do the advice I am giving you at all. It -is- however, what you have to do. To throw away this stuff, and defy it directly.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

The reason you feel this way is that you indulge that emotion instead of rejecting it. You think on some level you -should- feel this way.

Cut off? You mean ignore. Self-denial? Sorry but rejecting an emotion is equal to bottling it up and nothing else. You think that’s healthy? I’ve heard people kill themselves faster that way.

Again, what are your alternatives?

 

[Shin]

Cut off? You mean ignore. Self-denial? Sorry but rejecting an emotion is equal to bottling it up and nothing else. You think that’s healthy? I’ve heard people kill themselves faster that way.

Again, what are your alternatives?

Self denial is what Christianity is all about. I do not mean ignore, I mean directly defy and reject the emotion.

Hell’s expertise is emotional temptation, fascination, hypnotism. If you indulge every emotion you feel, you are indulging demons, and the slave of the passions.

And Hell’s servants are those who tell people to indulge their emotions, all of them, follow their hearts, and do whatever pleases them best. That message is in fact, the best way to become enslaved to the senses and am effeminate hedonist who cannot break free to do what a man should be able to do.

 

[grandfather]

You think I haven’t prayed? You think I haven’t asked God why I had to live my life (and still do) feeling downtrodden and dejected? I have and the only response I get is a silent hint to keep waiting. How much longer do I have to wait? How much more do I have to take?

If anything fantasizing just helps me cope. Is that really so bad to you? What are your alternatives?

You are giving a confused message. You said you have many female friends, but are not interested in them. Maybe I did not get that right. You also said you feel downtrodden and dejected. Have you attempted to begin romance with women and failed, or are have you not met anyone you are interested in?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Self denial is what Christianity is all about. I do not mean ignore, I mean directly defy and reject the emotion.

Hell’s expertise is emotional temptation, fascination, hypnotism. If you indulge every emotion you feel, you are indulging demons, and the slave of the passions.

You assume that emotions are always mindless, base, and without reason? Let me tell you something. The tricky thing about saying that this and that are voices from hell is that you cease to consider what exactly these voices are saying simply on the grounds that they exhibit negativity and “tempt”.

Have you ever wondered why I feel emotions of despair of loneliness? I’m a rational person you know.You tell me I fall prey to these emotions because I think I should. Well then, why shouldn’t I? My reasons aren’t petty. I’ve been through a lot you know.

And Hell’s servants are those who tell people to indulge their emotions, all of them, follow their hearts, and do whatever pleases them best. That message is in fact, the best way to become enslaved to the senses and am effeminate hedonist who cannot break free to do what a man should be able to do.

Indulge? Do whatever pleases me? If anything, what causes me to feel this way are the voices that tell me the things I can’t do, what I can’t be, and what I’ll never accomplish! Don’t tell me these things are alluring promises of freedom. All they’ve ever done is cause me to hesitate and chain me through insecurity. Frankly these fantasies are the window I’ll ever have that let’s me see the one thing that can free me from these fears. They give me a reason to struggle and have hope. However, since you believe that Christianity is all about restraint and deprivation, are you suggesting that these chains are made by God’s hand?

 

[Ridgerunner]

This is probably not helpful, but I’ll say it anyway.

I have never been persuaded that there is any human capacity, including fantasizing, that’s evil in itself. Everything we are inclined to do is potentially helpful or harmful to us, depending on the way it is employed.

Many years ago, it struck me that fantasizing on the Divine is not the worst use of this particular human faculty. It really can be inspiring. I sometimes fantasize as to what the Beatific Vision might be for humans. Will we suddenly find that certain angels are the agent principles of, say, motion in the universe? Would we, confronting an angel, find that its very name contains every physical principle governing the work of atoms, light, and so on? Would we find that angel a cold thing or immensely warm and loving toward us? Would it welcome us into its particular domain? Would we marvel at its intense and gargantuan obedience?

Would we be able to inspect the interior of the sun, understanding (through participation in the Divine Intellect) every calculation explaining every motion of every atomic particle? Would we be able to “feel” the heat just as it is, but without being harmed by it? Would we “feel” the cold of outer space and enjoy it just as we might a cool summer shower?

Would we be able to view a growing tree from the inside, with no regard whatever to the time it took to see the motion, and would we perhaps be able to do that simultaneously with exploring the interior of a black hole?

Would we all, every one of us, be able to walk with Jesus at the same time, and could He address each of us as if we were the only person in the universe? I sometimes think about taking that walk, and think about what He might say and just how, exactly, He might express His love for me, and what He might tell me.

God is infinite. We will never exhaust His riches of wisdom, love and understanding. Eternity is not, paradoxically, long enough for us to do that. What will we see? How will we interact with other people? Will the old lady we saw for a few months in church before she died be able to present herself to us simultaneously at every human age? Will we then see, in her childhood self, why it is that God cherishes her as His child (and understand better maybe, why Jesus said what He did about “becoming as little children”) Will we marvel at her beauty at 25, her dignity at 60 and her virtually unethereal presentation at 80? Will we then have a much better comprehension of humanness and its richness than what our own “timeline” view of things gives us?

That is definitely not to say contemplation of God is the only proper use of fantasizing. One must, after all, fantasize out a story in order to be able to tell it. It’s how we use that marvelous faculty that counts. To me, it’s a Divine gift, a very big one, and is part of what we are. Still, we are on this material world, and we must reconcile that gift with such mundane things as the need to clean the house, wash the car and go to work in the morning and give a good accounting of ourselves in that context.

Anyway, that’s my contribution, whatever it’s worth.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Have you attempted to begin romance with women and failed, or are have you not met anyone you are interested in?

I have had two near occasions of romance but no cigar. Other than those, no I have not met anyone I find interesting. It’s why I feel frustrated at times (especially since I’ve turned twenty).

 

[Shin]

You need to seek your happiness from spiritual practices, from serving and loving God.

 

[JRKH]

Well I’ve heard this advice before and while it’s a good one, it just doesn’t seem enough for me. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of friends who are girls. All of them are far from what I’m looking for though.

I don’t nkow you well enough to be specific but it seems to me, from what you have written so far, that you have developed this sort of “fantasy perfect girl” which you are comparing all other girls to. This can be most unhealthy. No one can live up to such a standard. What is worse, if you find someone you are interested in, you run the risk of trying to turn them into this fantasy imaga you have instead of seeing and accepting them as they are.

No other person is going to live up to the perfection we can create in our fantasies. So I say again that you need to spend less time fantasizing more time actually LIVING among real people. Real People have their good and bad points. If you want to find the mate that fits you best you have to discover, by trial and error, the traits, the habits, the personality, the foibles etc that you can live with.

When you do find that right person - The one God is sending to you, then you will know it. She won’t be perfect, she may not be gorgeous, she may have little habits that take getting use to, but deep inside, you will both know and love each other and you will conform yourself to her just as she conforms herself to you.

You seem to be young so my advise is to restrict your fantasizing to developing and writing stories about fictional characters. Who knows you may be a fine novelist someday.
When it comes to looking for your perfect match, get out and date. You may be surprised at who and what turns out to be your real dream girl.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

You need to seek your happiness from spiritual practices, from serving and loving God.

Wanderer and Shin,
Please recognize that this forum is an extremely limited venue.
We know so little about you Wanderer.
Sometimes even good advise given in the best of intentions may be inapropriate for a given individual at a given point in their lives.

It sounds to me, Wanderer, that you need to have some good solid spiritual counciling on these matters. Talk One on One with someone who knows your life, your culture, etc. We who live all around the world cannot possibly know the intricacies of life for you in your town/neighborhood.

Peace
James

 

[grandfather]

Indulge? Do whatever pleases me? If anything, what causes me to feel this way are the voices that tell me the things I can’t do, what I can’t be, and what I’ll never accomplish!

What voices do you mean?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I don’t nkow you well enough to be specific but it seems to me, from what you have written so far, that you have developed this sort of “fantasy perfect girl” which you are comparing all other girls to. This can be most unhealthy. No one can live up to such a standard. What is worse, if you find someone you are interested in, you run the risk of trying to turn them into this fantasy imaga you have instead of seeing and accepting them as they are. No other person is going to live up to the perfection we can create in our fantasies.

Well I realize that and I’m ready to adjust to a healthy degree. It’s just that the girls I see all the time on my campus can’t even reach past 50% of what I’m looking for. Also, I’m not hopeless enough to create what people think are the perfect girl types cuz the truth is, everyone has a different criteria for the perfect girl. I’ve often thought about this quote I made myself: “I’m not looking for the perfect girl… just one perfect for me.” It’s a little extreme but I hope you get my point.

So I say again that you need to spend less time fantasizing more time actually LIVING among real people. Real People have their good and bad points. If you want to find the mate that fits you best you have to discover, by trial and error, the traits, the habits, the personality, the foibles etc that you can live with.

I’m a sucker for girls who are rather timid, shy, quiet but well-meaning, kind, and optimistic (being religious makes it even better). She’s the kind of girl that a guy like me I wanna protect. With that said, I highly doubt there are many guys who would find a girl like that perfect. Heck I know few girls who would probably just hate me for wanting a weak girl like that.

On the other hand, the real girls I know (my mother and sister included) are always noisier than parakeets, more hot-headed than steaming kettles, and more dominating and demanding than a medieval Empress. Now make no mistake, I have no problem with being friends with someone like that (and I am actually) but they are not wife material for me. If I wanted to be stuck with someone like that for the rest of my life then I’d just stick to living with my mother.

When you do find that right person - The one God is sending to you, then you will know it. She won’t be perfect, she may not be gorgeous, she may have little habits that take getting use to, but deep inside, you will both know and love each other and you will conform yourself to her just as she conforms herself to you.

That’s exactly been the moment I’ve been longing for. In fact, I’ve actually reached the point where my fantasy girl may be a big clue as to the real girl I’m meant for. I mean she may not fit 100% to my standards or have some tedious things I have to put up with but well… bring it on! It’s waiting for her and just looking around aimlessly for her to pass by that’s killing me. ;w; I mean I wanna date but I’m more of one-shot type of guy (like my mom when she got my dad ).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Wanderer and Shin,
Please recognize that this forum is an extremely limited venue.
We know so little about you Wanderer.
Sometimes even good advise given in the best of intentions may be inapropriate for a given individual at a given point in their lives.

You said it. If anything alienates me more, it’s the advice of people who advocate self-deprivation and pseudo-celibacy.

It sounds to me, Wanderer, that you need to have some good solid spiritual counciling on these matters. Talk One on One with someone who knows your life, your culture, etc. We who live all around the world cannot possibly know the intricacies of life for you in your town/neighborhood.

I’ve already talked plenty with some friends but sometimes (no wait, make that most of the time ) they don’t take my standards seriously enough. I’ve had people tell me I’m more likely to find this girl at a convent than at a disco bar. >>;; (Sadly, they have a point.) Furthermore, my guy classmates in high-school (and some later in my first year in college) think I’m bizarre for wanting a religious girl and not some sparkling, potential porn star. --;;;

There has been some improvement. They’ve mentioned someone who might be close to what I’ve been seeking and I also realized how picky I can also be.

What voices do you mean?

Voices of insecurity basically. Although, I sometimes feel like a creep for wanting a girl to help me with that. >_>;;