Is It Wrong To Set A Limit on Number of Kids Regardless of Income/Life Situation?

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I know that the Church teaches people to use NFP to regulate births. I know that there are many serious reasons for avoiding/delaying pregnancy, whether it be financial, psychological, physical, or what have you. However, I’m wondering if a couple with no financial, psychological, physical or mental complications is allowed to limit the number of children they have.

I will give an example. Take, for instance, a high school principal who makes $100,000 in a small town where the couple could easily afford to raise 5-6 kids with the mother being a stay-at-home Mom. However, this couple, for no reason other than personal preference, does not want to have more than 2 children.

Is it wrong/sinful for this couple to* avoid *giving birth to more children which they could easily take care of and support emotionally/psycholoigically,etc?

In other words: Should a good Catholic couple be expected to have 8-10 kids if they can afford to do it and there is no serious reason why they can’t?
 
That’s a tough question, and I don’t know that I have the right answer for you.

What I will say, however, is that the whole purpose of marriage within the Church is for procreation. Children are a blessing and a gift. What you are describing, in my own opinion, really goes against the grain of the Church’s thinking on marriage and raising children.

Regarding finances, God will provide. He always protects His own.
 
GerardMajella said:
That’s a tough question, and I don’t know that I have the right answer for you.

What I will say, however, is that the whole purpose of marriage within the Church is for procreation. Children are a blessing and a gift. What you are describing, in my own opinion, really goes against the grain of the Church’s thinking on marriage and raising children.

Regarding finances, God will provide. He always protects His own.
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What if God doesn’t provide? There are plenty of people that starve to death every day. Does God not like those countries as much?
 
rusty20 said:
I know that the Church teaches people to use NFP to regulate births. I know that there are many serious reasons for avoiding/delaying pregnancy, whether it be financial, psychological, physical, or what have you. However, I’m wondering if a couple with no financial, psychological, physical or mental complications is allowed to limit the number of children they have.

I will give an example. Take, for instance, a high school principal who makes $100,000 in a small town where the couple could easily afford to raise 5-6 kids with the mother being a stay-at-home Mom. However, this couple, for no reason other than personal preference, does not want to have more than 2 children.

Is it wrong/sinful for this couple to* avoid *giving birth to more children which they could easily take care of and support emotionally/psycholoigically,etc?

In other words: Should a good Catholic couple be expected to have 8-10 kids if they can afford to do it and there is no serious reason why they can’t?
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The Church teaches that a couple may choose to postpone another child for a just reason. Finances are only one possible reason that a couple might decide to do this. Hopefully, the couple has consulted their priest or spiritual director in making a decision to stop (for now) at 2 children. My own priest and others I have heard have stated that the main unjust reasons are ones that are purely selfish. It would be very hard for somone other than the spouses themselves and their SD to know all of the factors that go into such a decision.
 
bingbang said:
What if God doesn’t provide? There are plenty of people that starve to death every day. Does God not like those countries as much?
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I think we could probably find thousands of Catholic children in the U.S. that aren’t getting enough to eat, medical and dental care, have a warm place to sleep, etc. Being fruitful and multiplying doesn’t mean you plant 1,000 apple trees in a half acre. It means you learn the land and plant trees that can be successful and grow well using the resources available…including one’s willingness and desire to tend to them.
 
rusty20 said:
I know that the Church teaches people to use NFP to regulate births. I know that there are many serious reasons for avoiding/delaying pregnancy, whether it be financial, psychological, physical, or what have you. However, I’m wondering if a couple with no financial, psychological, physical or mental complications is allowed to limit the number of children they have.

I will give an example. Take, for instance, a high school principal who makes $100,000 in a small town where the couple could easily afford to raise 5-6 kids with the mother being a stay-at-home Mom. However, this couple, for no reason other than personal preference, does not want to have more than 2 children.

Is it wrong/sinful for this couple to* avoid *giving birth to more children which they could easily take care of and support emotionally/psycholoigically,etc?

In other words: Should a good Catholic couple be expected to have 8-10 kids if they can afford to do it and there is no serious reason why they can’t?
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This PDF document from the US Conference of Catholic Bishops may be of help.

Your feelings appear correct in this matter in that, while the Church requires us to be open to having children and not to use artificial means to limit the number of children, the Church also does not set a hard number on how many children we should have, be we richer or poorer.

Using NFP to space out children is fine, but it may be a grave matter to use it indefinitely to keep from having any kids since a marriage should be open to having some. If you have medical or financial reasons for not having many (or any) children, NFP *might *be used licitly.

Speaking with a priest can help here. It’s not a matter of capacity but perhaps ability. He may help guide you in understanding what gifts from God you have in parenthood and what you should consider in raising 2 or 20 kids.
 
What if you have already had several kids and your wife says, “I’m done, that’s enough”?
It would be a hardship I suppose for my wife (closer to 40 than 30 shall we say) to bear more children. But, what if I want to adopt some older children? Would it be wrong or sinful for me to push the idea or wrong for her not to accept it? This is assuming of course that we have the resources to make this happen. It breaks my heart to learn about children who don’t have a family, especially those who are getting ready to “age-out” of the foster care system. How lonely that would be to face the world without two parents to love you and give you that fall-back support you need when you start out on your own.

God gave me the gift of being a parent. I think it is probably the best thing I have ever done! I didn’t really understand the Father until I became one. I feel a calling to make this happen, but it would only be possible with her full support. Right now, she just thinks I’m crazy for wanting more. (And my kids are awesome!)

Any prayers will be appreciated.
 
Maybe she just needs some time to come around to the idea of another child, be it natually or by adoption. we moms can feel very overwhelmed with little ones. Mental health is a serious reason (and just) for using NFP.

thechurchfanatic.blogspot.com
 
Humanae Vitae teaches that responsible parents can limit the size of their families for good reasons (n. 10):

“With regard to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised by those who prudently and generously decide to have more children, and by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time.”

The Church has taught that the manner in which one limits family size should avoid the use of artificial contraception, but since 1951 the Church has permitted Catholics to take morally acceptable steps to avoid pregnancy.
 
What if God doesn’t provide? There are plenty of people that starve to death every day. Does God not like those countries as much?
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The Lord works in mysterious ways. We can’t possibly fathom all the reasons why God allows evil to happen.

Most starvation in Third World countries occurs due to political oppression by dictators that suppress food from reaching the needy. There is more than enough food to feed the entire world many times over. Most dictatorships don’t last.
 
I think we need to respect the reasons why a couple may choose to not have any more children. It’s harmful to conjecture about others’ reproductive lives IMO. Since when was 6+ children the magic number with Catholics? Since when did catechism state that Catholics ought to have lots of children? I can understand why this question is being asked, but I think in the long-run, this creates a lot of judgment on other Catholics that isn’t necessary.
 
spunj and hislittle,

I think what needs to be remembered in any situation regarding the possible addition of children is what God wants. I would suggest that the first step of discernment is a regular prayer life to see what God wants for a particular couple at a particular time. The “I’m done” or “we’re done” comment doesn’t always make clear whether that is a shorthand for “I-don’t-think-we-are-being-called-to-have-another-child-now” after prayerful consideration of the present responsibilities to the other spouse, the existing family, and to society.

I think being overwhelmed with the responsibilities of the existing family is a legitimate reason to postpone another pregnancy, and of course that would be up to the couple to prayerfully determine. It would seem that there would be no reason to make statements like “no more” as the couple’s situation may change over time.

Whenever my bride and I have been confronted with what think are serious reasons to postpone, we have also had a conversation about how to address those issues, and to come up with a game plan as to how to deal with it. May that apply to the issues you allude to in the other thread, spunjalebi?

I would submit that even in the OP’s hypothetical, it still comes down to what God wants for that couple at a particular time. That being said, I also think the default position should be in favor of kids so long as they can be cared for; again, a couple needs a serious reason to use NFP to postpone pregnancy. I still think it is awesome that the God of the Universe trusts us to discern with Him and to be co-creators of a new immortal soul with Him!
 
You cannot set detailed guidelines up regarding what is a “serious reason” to avoid pregnancy and what is not.

Fortunately, you don’t have to. Anybody who has practiced NFP for a while knows very well that the NON-serious reasons simply crumble under the weight of the abstinance days. In other words, it’s really NOT that hard to discern if you have any sort of interior life and live according to chastity. God built a self regulating BS detector into the libido of the human species.

If it’s a phony reason, you’ll know soon enough. Worked for us!👍
 
Thanks for all the responses, everybody!

I guess there is no universal answer to whether or not a couple can stop after 3 kids for no “serious” or “grave” reason. However, it still seems to me that Church teaching would dictate there can be NO stopping having children unless there is a grave or serious reason. The Church is pretty clear that avoiding pregnancy via NFP is only allowed under grave or serious situations, but then in practice it may play out differently.

Take a couple that has 3 children and absolutely NO grave or serious reasons to avoid another pregnancy. Could it be acceptable for that couple to use NFP to avoid children indefinitely?
 
rusty20 said:
Take a couple that has 3 children and absolutely NO grave or serious reasons to avoid another pregnancy. Could it be acceptable for that couple to use NFP to avoid children indefinitely?
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Well arguably you are describing ME. We have three kids and are comfortably middle class. There were health complications during the second pregnancy (everything worked out fine) that lead us to postpone for a time getting pregnant again because of the likelyhood of a return of those problems in another pregnancy. But they were mostly of the type where the baby is at risk (Google “ICP itchy moms” for the fun details of the problem). After a few years of using NFP to avoid, we discerned a certain nudge to reconsider just how serious a reason this was to avoid. God speaks to His faithful in a special way when they fast and pray. And when the fast is directly related to the issue (abstinence, sex and babies), the effectiveness is all the more!

So sure, enough, God gifted us with a third child. Now its been three years since that birth, the symptoms DID return in the 3rd pregnancy(slightly worse) and we’re into the high risk years for mom’s age (the big 40). Do we have a serious reason? So far discernment says yes.
But that’s part of being faithful. Ultimately, we don’t know what God will say next. Ultimately, we try to use wisdom and judgement, but also listen for the still small voice. We look and listen for the hints God sends when your ‘serious reason’ is mere rationalization. That’s really all you CAN do.
 
A major problem I see with this kind of guessing game is what may be considered serious for one couple may not be for another couple. I consider sudden unemployment, pregnancy issues, and child’s health issues to be serious problems but I’m sure there’s going to be another person who says “oh, that’s nothing!”

I work with children who have special needs and I have noticed that oftentimes when an oldest child has a severe disorder with behavioral issues such as autism, the parents seemed to have waited many years before having another child and for GOOD reason. I worked with a child who physically attacked anyone in his way, even his own parents whenever he had aggression. Imagine trying to care for a baby when you’re also scared of your own son or daughter. I think we need to be happy that parents are making informed choices about their families and not running to abortions (stats show many women who have abortions are already mothers).
 
manualman said:
Well arguably you are describing ME. We have three kids and are comfortably middle class. There were health complications during the second pregnancy (everything worked out fine) that lead us to postpone for a time getting pregnant again because of the likelyhood of a return of those problems in another pregnancy. But they were mostly of the type where the baby is at risk (Google “ICP itchy moms” for the fun details of the problem). After a few years of using NFP to avoid, we discerned a certain nudge to reconsider just how serious a reason this was to avoid. God speaks to His faithful in a special way when they fast and pray. And when the fast is directly related to the issue (abstinence, sex and babies), the effectiveness is all the more!

So sure, enough, God gifted us with a third child. Now its been three years since that birth, the symptoms DID return in the 3rd pregnancy(slightly worse) and we’re into the high risk years for mom’s age (the big 40). Do we have a serious reason? So far discernment says yes.
But that’s part of being faithful. Ultimately, we don’t know what God will say next. Ultimately, we try to use wisdom and judgement, but also listen for the still small voice. We look and listen for the hints God sends when your ‘serious reason’ is mere rationalization. That’s really all you CAN do.
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I see what you are saying ,but the medical complications your wife had were what I consider to be a grave or serious reason to postpone pregnancy.

My parents did marriage prep when I was younger, and one of the questions they always asked couples (as part of the Catholic prep program) was how many children they want to have. They would ask each person as part of a longer questionnaire to be filled individually by husband and wife, then compare answers. Would any answer other than “however many children God wants me to have” be okay from a Catholic perspective? What if I say I only want to have 2 children, and my wife agrees. We have 2 chidlren in our first 5 years of marriage then use NFP for the rest of the marriage to avoid children for no other reason than the fact that we only feel like having two kids. Are we leading sinful lives?
 
I DO think it is a BAD idea to start out with a set number of desired kids in mind before marriage. To me, this is almost as dumb as deciding and agreeing ahead of time upon how many millions of dollars you will amass by retirement. Life simply is too fluid for this. What a couple should be is open to HEAR what God has to say to them. This approach is much more healthy because it acknowledges the fact that things like children are ultimately NOT ours to control. Cultivating such an attitude makes it a lot easier to deal with infertility or surprise pregnancies.

But is it SINFUL to start with a set number? I dunno. Probably only if you refuse to later listen for the voice of God when/if He suggests that more (or less) would be a GIFT to your family. In other words, not every bad idea is a sin.
 
manualman said:
I DO think it is a BAD idea to start out with a set number of desired kids in mind before marriage. To me, this is almost as dumb as deciding and agreeing ahead of time upon how many millions of dollars you will amass by retirement. Life simply is too fluid for this. What a couple should be is open to HEAR what God has to say to them. This approach is much more healthy because it acknowledges the fact that things like children are ultimately NOT ours to control. Cultivating such an attitude makes it a lot easier to deal with infertility or surprise pregnancies.

But is it SINFUL to start with a set number? I dunno. Probably only if you refuse to later listen for the voice of God when/if He suggests that more (or less) would be a GIFT to your family. In other words, not every bad idea is a sin.
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The thing I don’t understand about this is God is far more powerful than ANY birth control on the market. My son is next to me and God obviously wanted him here more than the birth control pill my wife was on didn’t want him here. My point is that no birth control is more powerful than God and if God wants another child, it will happen regardless.
 
spunjalebi: major problem with ‘guessing game’/serious for one, not serious for another

On the contrary, isn’t that the beauty of it? Each couple will prayerfully determine what is or is not a serious reason for their situation, guided by the authentic teaching of the Church. Remember, God, speaking through the Church that His Son established to teach the truth with authority, leaves it up to the couple to determine, through the prism of responsible parenthood: what are our responsibilities, the couple asks, to God (i.e., to what is God calling us at this time), to the other spouse, to the existing family, and to society? What may prevent one couple from effectively parenting and caring for another or a child may not faze another couple whose situation, experience, financial status, family obligations, and personal strengths and weaknesses are different from the first couple’s. Isn’t that a good thing?

What I’m hearing you say, so to speak, is that you would like there to be a more concrete basis for the couple’s discernment beyond prayer life and thought given to the factors listed by the Church. Part two of what I’m hearing you say, is that either you don’t think God will answer your prayer in a discernible way, or you don’t trust yourself to hear Him? Is that close?

rusty: I only want 2, and wife agrees

It seems to me that the answer to the question turns on how you came to determine the number and how the couple came to agree, to a certain extent, within the context of manualman’s comments above. If the couple has not taken it to prayer at all, and has not asked what God wants in their parenthood/fertility, I do not think they can trust their discernment; it may be correct, but it may be what they want, not what God is calling them to.

bingbang: Isn’t there something about not putting God to the test?
 
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