Is it wrong to support the IRA?

[Ivornotion]

brotherhrolf:

I often wondered why they never opened those shutters to let in light and air. Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

Hey you don’t want to disturb the cockroaches reminds me of a story someone told me here in Ireland about a man bringing his girlfriend home late one night.
(Now you have to understand these were slums) he told her to wait at the door, until he went in and put on the light.
Reason being, the cockroaches didn’'t like the light, and you could hear them scatter away to hiding.
He was obviously too embarassed to bring her in with the place looking like a zoo, and who can blame him.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

The only IRA I support is the IRA I have at my broker:whacky:

PF

 

[CelticCatholic]

but the Irish are sometimes called the blacks of Europe

The racist attidutes which exist towards the irish or people of irish decent is still alive and appauling, I was mocked for being a papist and a fenian before i even knew what they were, now that i do know what they are, i wish they would call me it more often

I was actually passed by and Orange March on my way to Mass on Saturday, felt like asking the bigots on the side of the road cheering them on to get out of my way as they were delaying me. Might not have went down to well though.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I have to say that I am appalled at hearing that Celtic and Ivor. See, just what I said. Good to have words from the people who are there and experiencing it. Some on the Katrina thread need to take notice of this.

 

[GarryOwen]

Is it wrong to support murders, terrorists, kidnapper`s, bank robbers, torturers…then its wrong to support the IRA.

 

[CelticCatholic]

I guess i support 32 state Irish Republicanism more than any of the organisations.

 

[GarryOwen]

CelticCatholic:

Firstly i would like to state that the fact the IRA even has to exist is a true tragedy. I do and always will support a united 32 state Ireland and the brake up of the British state. Obviously i would like to see this attained in a peaceful way which is going to be near impossilble due to the problems already formetioned. For me any organisation which responsibly tries to oppose the British occupation of the North of Ireland will always be Freedom Fighters, after all its their country which is currently occupied by foreign troops.

I can safely say that the terms British and truth dont go together very often. Personally i have never been to America to comment but history shows that America has been in many ways just as regressive towards Catholics as the Brits although perhaps not as blatant. I am sure the Ku Klux Klan was founded by an Orange Man who wanted to maintain Anglo Saxon Protestant Supremecy in America , and the Klans resurrgence in the 1930’s was aimed more at the Irish than blacks. So to here that the American press dont side with the Irish struggle against Brit imperialism does exactly knock me over with astoundment.

I agree that the Catholic population in the north is increasing, but i think its more because of anglo saxons leaving to work in England than due to catholic principles. I mean i love Ireland etc but the church are not seen as being as important as it was. The youth of Ireland are just as likely to get up to all sorts as the youth of anywhere else, although at least abortion is still banned which is a good thing, but even that now hangs in the balance i believe. I dont know maybe someone from Ireland can confirm this for me but i dont think the % of Irish going to mass and following catholic teachings is near as high as it once was.

Yeah no doubt the potato famine was the fault of the Brits, as the old Irish saying goes, ‘The almighty sent the potato blight, but the English created the famine’

Which part of Ireland are you from again…your not from any part of Ireland and you dont have a clue of what you are talking about.

 

[Eileen_T]

Don’t forget the Hunger Strikes and deaths over the treatment in Long Kesh. The way those prisioners were treated by the British was appalling The thing that got to me most when I read about it was that it happened less than 30 years ago.

Most people would consider the Brits to be once of the most civilised races/nations in the world, unless you happen to be Irish or of Irish descent.

The IRB/IRA may have started as freedom fighters, but I believe they evolved (de-volved?) into terrorists over time.

How many terrorists or freedom fighters have been declared saints? Can’t think of one.

 

[CelticCatholic]

Which part of Ireland are you from again…your not from any part of Ireland and you dont have a clue of what you are talking about.

I dont think that you have to be from Ireland to comment on it, but one side of my family are from Ireland. I aint from Germany either so i guess i cant comment on the Holocaust, or i aint from France so i cant comment on the removal of head scarfs from schools. But just to put myself right

Firstly i would like to state that the fact the IRA even has to exist is a true tragedy. I do and always will support a united 32 state Ireland and the brake up of the British state. Obviously i would like to see this attained in a peaceful way which is going to be near impossilble due to the problems already formetioned. For me any organisation which responsibly tries to oppose the British occupation of the North of Ireland will always be Freedom Fighters, after all its their country which is currently occupied by foreign troops.

This highlighted bit here i still stand by, i do believe in a united Ireland and i am against imperialism. I do believe as do many who are not from Ireland that Britain is still occupying the North.

can safely say that the terms British and truth dont go together very often

I stand by that, Britain didnt colonise 1/4 of the globe by doing nice deeds, most of it was done by slaughter murder and exploitation. I would like to say Britain as stopped its imperialist agenda but i think the Iraq war proves me wrong.

Personally i have never been to America to comment but history shows that America has been in many ways just as regressive towards Catholics as the Brits although perhaps not as blatant. I am sure the Ku Klux Klan was founded by an Orange Man who wanted to maintain Anglo Saxon Protestant Supremecy in America , and the Klans resurrgence in the 1930’s was aimed more at the Irish than blacks. So to here that the American press dont side with the Irish struggle against Brit imperialism does exactly knock me over with astoundment.

I already apologised to the brother who corrected me on this, and like i said in my appology it was based on a rumour that circulates a great deal of the time.

I agree that the Catholic population in the north is increasing, but i think its more because of anglo saxons leaving to work in England than due to catholic principles. I mean i love Ireland etc but the church are not seen as being as important as it was. The youth of Ireland are just as likely to get up to all sorts as the youth of anywhere else, although at least abortion is still banned which is a good thing, but even that now hangs in the balance i believe. I** dont know maybe someone from Ireland can confirm this for me but i dont think the % of Irish going to mass and following catholic teachings is near as high as it once was**.

Well here i was basically basing this assertion on an observation from Irish Catholic news papers etc and Irish mates of mine in general. I did also say that someone from Ireland would be best to rectify it. I do know many Irish people my age most of which study at the same university as me, none go to mass, all commit fornication and use contraception. I admit this might be only those who are over here, hence why i said it would be best form someone who is in Ireland to confirm it for me.

Plus you dont have to be from Ireland to suffer the anti backlas of sectariansim. Every year in Scotland there are over 700 orange marches, Scotlands joint biggest football side still sing songs about killing catholics and ‘f–k the pope and vatican’.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I am of Irish, Scot, and Breton ancestry. I consider myself a Celtic American since that most aptly describes what I am. Of course, a well known Celtic bard from Scotland of my acquaintance, described me as a mongrel but I will accept this appelation with pleasure. I don’t know if CelticCatholic is a member of one of the very few Scot clans who remained Catholic or if he is part of the famine diaspora. It doesn’t matter to me. We Celts have been defeated over and over and over again throughout history because we fight amongst ourselves. When will we learn?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Nick:

Are the modern IRA (1960’s to present) freedom fighters or terrorists? What is the Church’s position on the IRA?

Terrorists, racketeers, thugs, bank-robbers, arms-smugglers. Not to mention being utterly deceitful and untrustworthy. They wouldn’t recognise honesty or integrity if those excellent qualities mugged them in broad daylight.​

What is the proper description for a gang which used to gets its arms from Gaddafi ? That is what the IRA did.

I take it that no one denies these are criminal activities. Nor denies that knee-capping people is a criminal act.

And they have been denounced by the Irish bishops, though that was a long while ago.

I-R-A spells “murdering scum”. It’s a pity they weren’t aborted - for them at least, I would support it unreservedly. They are nothing but vermin - and should be treated as such. They are about as “heroic” as serial paedophiles - unless anyone regards serial paedophiles as heroes, they would be very ill-advised to regard the members of the IRA as such. Thugs, yes. Criminals, certainly. Terrorists, beyond a shadow of doubt. Glorious Catholic heroes ? Only if gangsters like Hitler and his cronies were heroes. They differ from him only in being Marxists, and in lacking his opportunities for murder. ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Eileen T:

Don’t forget the Hunger Strikes and deaths over the treatment in Long Kesh. The way those prisioners were treated by the British was appalling The thing that got to me most when I read about it was that it happened less than 30 years ago.

Some of what the USA does has happened less than a year ago - or isn’t the CIA, which manages the transport to countries which use torture of certain people suspected of Islamic terrorism, a USA agency ? I think thats pretty ghastly. The USA is no glorious beacon of unsullied light - far from it. I wish it were.​

People do foul things - no matter what their politics or other creed. Even if they are from the UK, or the USA. But that doesn’t alter or extenuate the guilt of the IRA by one iota. The proper solution for them is outlawry and extermination, they should be hunted down like the rabid curs that they are, and shot on sight. Then we’d all be better off. Unfortunately, as you say, we are too civilised to do anything so sensible. ##

Most people would consider the Brits to be once of the most civilised races/nations in the world, unless you happen to be Irish or of Irish descent.

The IRB/IRA may have started as freedom fighters, but I believe they evolved (de-volved?) into terrorists over time.

“Degenerated” is the word you’re after ​

How many terrorists or freedom fighters have been declared saints? Can’t think of one.

BTW - the Catholic & Protestant criminals are not the only players in all of this: don’t forget the SDLP, on the Catholic side, or the UUP and DUP on the Protestant. Not all Catholics in Ulster are terrorists, anti-British, or anti-democratic in their methods; don’t let sub-human filth like Gerry Adams, who uses the Church when it suits his pourposes, eclipse decent human beings like John Hume. ##

 

[Ivornotion]

Gottle of Geer:

The proper solution for them is outlawry and extermination, they should be hunted down like the rabid curs that they are, and shot on sight. Then we’d all be better off. Unfortunately, as you say, we are too civilised to do anything so sensible. ##

That soloution was tried by the British for 30 years and beyond, the S.A.S had their sucesse’s but then again the IRA took out many of the S.A.S, having lived through it I know first hand that some of the tactics of the security forces couldn’t have been considered civilised.
Plus regarding last Sundays reading at Mass, about forgiving 7 times, don’t forget we have to forgive 70 times 7 (forever) I know it’s easy to quote the scriptures, but it’s damned hard to live some of it out. And we know we aren’t supposed to approach the Altar of the Lord without forgiving our brother.
That last quote is a biggy for me, it’s very hard to live out, but I know it’s what’s asked of me if I want to follow Jesus.
I suppose it all ties in with some of the words in the Bible, "don’t be a sayer of the word only, but a doer as well "
Bye !

 

[redtech]

My ancestors came from Northern Ireland in 1830. Since they came, my particular tree branch has married other Irish all the way down. I’m about 3/4’s Irish descent. I have red hair and green eyes!

I did a paper on the IRA when I was in high school. Knowing that my family was pushed out of their homeland by the OrangeMen sort of always made me supportive of the IRA. I feel alot better about it now that they’ve laid down their arms. I hope that all works out.

I’ve never been to Ireland but would love to take a vacation there. I feel very strongly about it, I love the music and everything!

 

[a_bhith]

Yes I believe it is wrong to support the IRA. I can see the problem of the IRA and its’ opponents from both sides. My grandfather was an Orangeman, and yet both his sons converted to Catholicism. My grandfather was involved in anti-Catholic violence when he was young man and regretted that up to the day that he died. In some of the posts I have read I see that some writers have stated that the IRA never targeted civilians, unfortunately that is not true. Ask any resident of London that resided there in the 70’s how they felt at being targeted. Finally as Catholics we should look to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Read #2297 that speaks specifically to terrorism. Of course we can refer to many other Church teachings that speak to the inherent dignity that all humanity shares.

 

[Irish_High_King]

The trouble is, most Irish Americans view the Troubles and problems in the North with some kind of romanticism. The most any of them have got to ‘supporting’ the Irish fight for freedom is slinging a few dollars into the coffers of Noraid. Seriously, you guys haven’t a clue. We can all sing ‘Sean South of Garryowen’ and ‘A Nation Once Again’ and drink a few pints of Guinness here and there… It doesn’t make you Irish! Most of you haven’t even seen the skies over Ireland.

I think the nearest to correctness, contribution-wise came from DesertFather. But even then, he called the Orange Order the ‘Protestant “political party” in Ireland’

CelticCatholic,

You mentioned that Rangers still sing ‘Fk The Pope’, whilst conveniently omitting that Celtic also sing 'Fk the British Army!’

As for the rest of you, please, stick to discussing your own chequered history. Why don’t you discuss, for example, why America isn’t considered papabile by the Vatican (there will never be an American pope)?

By the way, I was born in West Belfast.

 

[Wolftone]

As a protestant and and Irish Republican I regard the IRA as terrorists. Modern day republicans have lost site of the true vision of the United Irish Men of the Eighteenth century led by Theobold Wolf Tone. Tone and his fellow Irish men realised that Britain was the cause of Ireland’s woes. Britain was and is today using the tactic of divide and conquer. As long as Britain could keep the Irish people divided, they could use Ireland for their own selfish imperialist goals. The British cause was advanced by the fiecely sectarian protestant Orange Order and their Catholic counterparts The Defenders. The intercommunal violence forced to depend on Britain. The british further divided the Irish people in 1849 by creating a famine. All who were not part of the British aristocracy were discrimated against and encouraged to leave Ireland. The Fenian movement formed at the time united many of the Irish people. Sadly most Protestants have been brainwashed by Unionist politicians controlled by Westminster to believing the a united Ireland will be adverse to their interests. Sadly the I.R.A. have helped reinforce that myth. Although in recent years Sinn Fein have been moving away from the bigoted “Defenders” position and towards a “United irish Men” position. Especially Gerry Adams. hopefully this tend will continue. May all Ireland be free. Dublin Belfast, Cork to Donegal. May Every Irish man, Catholic, Protestant, Dissenter and any other faith or none be equally respected Ulster, Munster, Leinster and Connaght. Ireland the land of the free from foreign interferance.

 

[Padua_Minded]

As a protestant and and Irish Republican I regard the IRA as terrorists. Modern day republicans have lost site of the true vision of the United Irish Men of the Eighteenth century led by Theobold Wolf Tone. .

I agree with most of what you say, but I can’t logically work out the dichtomy between supporting physical force nationalist movements and the ‘true vision’ of the United Irishmen. Wolfe Tone strongly encouraged the killing of British soldiers. The central thesis of Irish Republicanism is that the Irish people constitute a distinct nationality, have a right to self-governance and are entitled to the exercise of their national sovereignty without interference from an alien power. This is handily elucidated in the 1916 Proclamation:

We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the last three hundred years they have asserted it to arms. Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades-in-arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations.

 

[Padua_Minded]

Is it wrong to support murders, terrorists, kidnapper`s, bank robbers, torturers.

So its wrong for an Irishman to support the British Army…gotcha.

 

[Padua_Minded]

How many terrorists or freedom fighters have been declared saints? Can’t think of one.

St Joan of Arc.