Is it wrong to tell children about Santa Claus/Easter Bunny. etc?

[Other_Eric]

This comes up from time to time on here. If we are going to be that legalistic with lying to children, then we need to avoid the following phrases:

One can admit that there are some parents who lack the gumption to tell their children how things really are and, for at least some of these phrases you use, there is a definite element of deception involved in order to avoid unpleasant truths. We must be careful lest we lapse into over-reach, however. In particular, I would like to address the following phrases:

1. “Mommy would never let anything happen to you” - not true. If mommy goes nuts, dies, or just happens to be at work, bad things can happen to you. Hard to know for sure.

It seems that the level of involvement that you require of Mommy, once having used this phrase, is extraordinarily unreasonable, even to the mind of the three-year-old to whom it might be directed. If Mommy dies, happens to be at work or is somehow absent children tend to know that Mommy’s protection will not be forthcoming. That’s why they scream for their parents so desperately when they are missing. Children understand that Mommy would not intentionally allow harm to come to them if she is capable of preventing it. No child I know, nor adult, assumes that this phrase necessitates incorruptible health or omnipresence.

1. “Mommy will always love you.” - not true, see mommy’s death again as an example.

No Christian ought to be so callous as to imagine that love dies with the body. Can you honestly look upon a crucifix and believe that God’s love for man died with Christ?

1. “Eat your vegetables and you’ll grow up to be big and strong.” - not true per se, the child could grow up to be weak, or frail. Besides, it takes protein and amino acids to build strong muscle, which aren’t as common in most vegetables.

A child who does not eat his vegetables will not grow up to be big and strong because he has glutted himself on meat. Indeed, the malnutritional ailments that could develop as a result of vitamin deficiency could prevent the child from “growing up big and strong.” It therefore seems obvious to me that encouraging the consumption of vegetables by the use of this phrase contains no deception.

Even if we were to allow that each of these phrases could not be true in some hyper-literal sense, we would still have to contend with the clear intent behind the use of each of these phrases. That it, they are meant to communicate something that is true. Mommy loves her child, which is why she will not let anything happen to him, always will love him, wishes him to eat his vegetables or believes him to be the most beautiful baby in the world. The Santa Clause story does not contain even this. It is a tale that actually obscures a parent’s love for his child by allowing the child to believe that his Christmas gifts came from some fantastical creature with supernatural powers instead of them.

 

[He_Man]

so just use some better phrase. Besides, this is an exaggeration, not claiming some nonexistent being to exist.

It is a lie. Calling it an exaggeration does not change the fact that it is not true.

after we die, do we cease to love? I don’t think so (provided we go to heaven/purgatory)…

Mommy doesn’t know where she is going (hell???), and even still none of us have been there. Mommy has no proof that she will love individuals on earth once dead; in fact, all signs point to an overwhelming sense of total focus on the Lord’s glory in Heaven, not indidviduals on earth.

again, use some better phrase then

I don’t disagree, but the point stands. It is common, and a lie.

Also, don’t ever tell your child “this will make you feel better” when giving them medicine. It doesn’t always work.

I recall a few times my mother said that where I felt no better. Luckily, being an adult, don’t hold grudges against her apparently sinful deceit.

why would a Christian mother say such a thing?

Not the point. The question is, “is it a lie?” and the answer is yes.

And wanna bet how many pious, faithful, devout Christian mothers have said that to their children??? They don’t mean is heretically, but it is still a lie in the same sense that Santa is.

 

[He_Man]

Even if we were to allow that each of these phrases could not be true in some hyper-literal sense, we would still have to contend with the clear intent behind the use of each of these phrases. That it, they are meant to communicate something that is true. Mommy loves her child, which is why she will not let anything happen to him, always will love him, wishes him to eat his vegetables or believes him to be the most beautiful baby in the world. The Santa Clause story does not contain even this. It is a tale that actually obscures a parent’s love for his child by allowing the child to believe that his Christmas gifts came from some fantastical creature with supernatural powers instead of them.

Therein lies the problem with this whole thread. You presume too much in knowing the motives of parents who allow their children to believe in Santa.

Whether due to ignorance or arrogance, ou apparently think you have a window into their minds. Now, if we accept that you cannot presume to know what their motives are (my parents did not allow the Santa myth so as to indulge themselves, so you are wrong on at least one case), then we are left with the issue of the truth.

So is this thread about judging parents motives, or being 100% honest with children?

If the former, none of us know, and the topic title is wrong. If the latter, then as I have pointed out in the examples I stated, most if not all parents are guilty of lying to their children, and by default, sinning. “Hyper-literal” means nothing whereas the truth is concerned. Something is either 100% true, or false. Another way of saying it anything that is mostly true is completely false, in terms of the definitions of the words.

I am very thankful that I was allowed to actually enjoy my childhood and indulge in fantasies about Santa. It wasn’t as though it took away from time spent praying with my mother, going to confession, and attending the best Catholic schools in the Baltimore area. A belief in Santa and a belief in Christ are not mutually-exclusive.

You’d think adults who believed in Santa as a child were turning into a bunch of rogue heretics the way you post.

No, it was poor leadership and catechisis from their parents that screwed most wayward Catholics up. Santa had nothing to do with it…

 

[dixieagle]

The job of a parent is not to sit in wonder of a child’s fantastic delusions. Instead, every child needs to be given a harsh dose of reality so that he or she may grow up well grounded. I find that romantic notions of childhood innocence are puerile at best and have absolutely no place in my house.

Good heavens, what an incredibly rigid and glum father you must be. I’m glad I never lived in your house!

 

[dixieagle]

Therein lies the problem with this whole thread. You presume too much in knowing the motives of parents who allow their children to believe in Santa.

Whether due to ignorance or arrogance, ou apparently think you have a window into their minds. Now, if we accept that you cannot presume to know what their motives are (my parents did not allow the Santa myth so as to indulge themselves, so you are wrong on at least one case), then we are left with the issue of the truth.

So is this thread about judging parents motives, or being 100% honest with children?

If the former, none of us know, and the topic title is wrong. If the latter, then as I have pointed out in the examples I stated, most if not all parents are guilty of lying to their children, and by default, sinning. “Hyper-literal” means nothing whereas the truth is concerned. Something is either 100% true, or false. Another way of saying it anything that is mostly true is completely false, in terms of the definitions of the words.

I am very thankful that I was allowed to actually enjoy my childhood and indulge in fantasies about Santa. It wasn’t as though it took away from time spent praying with my mother, going to confession, and attending the best Catholic schools in the Baltimore area. A belief in Santa and a belief in Christ are not mutually-exclusive.

You’d think adults who believed in Santa as a child were turning into a bunch of rogue heretics the way you post.

No, it was poor leadership and catechisis from their parents that screwed most wayward Catholics up. Santa had nothing to do with it…

 

[deb1]

Here is a lie I have told my oldest sons. FOr some reason they went through a fear phase that their sisters did not. They were both concerned that someone would get into their room.

This was intense, unreasonable fear. After trying many things, I finally said that it was impossible for anyone to get in their room without their dad and I hearing.

Although it is unlikely, there have been reports of kids being taken from their bedroom without their parents knowledge. Yes, I could have been brutally honest and said that there is a slight possibility that someone would break into your room.

I chose to lie so everyone could get sleep and they would be less frightened.

 

[Other_Eric]

Therein lies the problem with this whole thread. You presume too much in knowing the motives of parents who allow their children to believe in Santa.

Whether due to ignorance or arrogance, ou apparently think you have a window into their minds. Now, if we accept that you cannot presume to know what their motives are (my parents did not allow the Santa myth so as to indulge themselves, so you are wrong on at least one case), then we are left with the issue of the truth.

So is this thread about judging parents motives, or being 100% honest with children?

If the former, none of us know, and the topic title is wrong. If the latter, then as I have pointed out in the examples I stated, most if not all parents are guilty of lying to their children, and by default, sinning. “Hyper-literal” means nothing whereas the truth is concerned. Something is either 100% true, or false. Another way of saying it anything that is mostly true is completely false, in terms of the definitions of the words.

I am very thankful that I was allowed to actually enjoy my childhood and indulge in fantasies about Santa. It wasn’t as though it took away from time spent praying with my mother, going to confession, and attending the best Catholic schools in the Baltimore area. A belief in Santa and a belief in Christ are not mutually-exclusive.

You’d think adults who believed in Santa as a child were turning into a bunch of rogue heretics the way you post.

No, it was poor leadership and catechisis from their parents that screwed most wayward Catholics up. Santa had nothing to do with it…

This has nothing to do with parent’s intentions. What it has to do with is the value that is communicated through the use of each of these phrases. “Mommy will always love you” communicates something that is true in a way that “Santa Claus will come down the chimney tonight” does not. The intentions or motivations behind each is irrelevant.

To disabuse you of this flawed notion of 100% factual accuracy being necessary to communicate things which are sometimes beyond immediate apprehension, one need only point to the parables told by Christ. One does not apply this rigid accuracy to His parables because their literal truth is not the point. The point of such stories is the values the stories are meant to communicate.

At this point we reach the utter failure of the Santa Claus story. There is no truth behind it. It does nothing other than encourage a child to view the world in terms that are demonstrably false. It transfers the child’s gratitude from its proper object, the parents, to a fantasy creature. As such it corrupts the child’s development in both practical and spiritual matters.

None of this requires a window into the intentions of those actors in order to be able to discern such consequences. None of this in any way diminishes the value of truth by accepting that some concepts can only be explained by way of analogy, lest we accuse Christ of being a liar.

While I am delighted to be informed of the particulars of what it is that I myself am implying by my argument, I submit that your own window into my soul is a bit clouded. Certainly bad catechesis is at the heart of most of the heretical beliefs currently in vogue today. I do not contend that it is Santa Claus that is the primary source of such drivel, merely that Santa constitutes but one part of this flawed faith formation people are wont to impart to their children these days.

 

[mlchance]

Therein lies the problem with this whole thread. You presume too much in knowing the motives of parents who allow their children to believe in Santa.

It’s not presumption if you’ve been blessed with the gift of reading the hearts of total strangers over the Internet. After all, according to the next post, if you disagree with some people you’re perhaps going to Hell.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Other_Eric]

Good heavens, what an incredibly rigid and glum father you must be. I’m glad I never lived in your house!

At your own Particular Judgment, when the only two ultimate fates that lie before you are heaven and hell, perhaps it will be that my “rigidity” pales in comparison to that of someone else.

 

[Preacher_Vern]

My Mom told me there was a Santa Claus when I was a child, untill I caught her siting up the toys, and then I ask the question way you lie to me all these years? As far as the Bunny, I new that was not true cause my Grandad shot it and we ate it.
So, be stright up with the kids today, they have enough lies told to them as it is.

 

[dixieagle]

At your own Particular Judgment, when the only two ultimate fates that lie before you are heaven and hell, perhaps it will be that my “rigidity” pales in comparison to that of someone else.

Rigid, glum, arrogant and presumptuous.

Psalm 100: Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all the earth! Serve the Lord with gladness! Come into his presence with singing!

For heaven’s sake!!!

 

[deb1]

This reminds me of the Harry Potter threads. I understood the opposite side and supported their decisions for thier individual families.

The same is true of the Santa story. Even though my family had the tradition of Santa, I don’t fault parents who decide not to do this. I understand that there isn’t a right or wrong decision when it comes to either Harry Potter or Santa.

Yet, as in the Harry Potter threads, there seems to be a minority of parents who are unable to understand that each side makes decisions that are best for their families. Just because someone does something different then another family doesn’t mean that either side is right or wrong.

I was explaining to my younger son that some kids get angry that Santa isn’t real. My son wanted to know what was wrong with loving your children so much that you want to give them gifts without getting any credit. In fact one of the things that I stressed to my kids is that you shouldn’t always want credit for the nice things you do. I used Santa and the tradition of parents playing him as an example.

But I am not saying that parents who don’t do Santa love their children less then I do or that their children don’t understand that they should do nice things for other people.

I feel a bit like Rodney King. “Can’ t we all just get along.”

 

[lizaanne]

Rigid, glum, arrogant and presumptuous.

Psalm 100: Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all the earth! Serve the Lord with gladness! Come into his presence with singing!

For heaven’s sake!!!

I personally think he’s dead on. The problem with many children today is that they are so sheltered and cloistered in their childhood for so long - some well into their early 20’s - that when the real world hits them in the face they have no resources to react with. There is nothing wrong with being truthful and realistic with children - that does not mean there is a lack of love, joy, and gladness in the home. It means that it is a realistic love, joy, and gladness. Not some pie in the sky, everything will always be perfect and we will always be together and no one will ever get sick or die or be poor or…sorry, I could never raise my children that way. Eric has the right idea.

~Liza

 

[deb1]

I personally think he’s dead on. The problem with many children today is that they are so sheltered and cloistered in their childhood for so long - some well into their early 20’s - that when the real world hits them in the face they have no resources to react with. There is nothing wrong with being truthful and realistic with children - that does not mean there is a lack of love, joy, and gladness in the home. It means that it is a realistic love, joy, and gladness. Not some pie in the sky, everything will always be perfect and we will always be together and no one will ever get sick or die or be poor or…sorry, I could never raise my children that way. Eric has the right idea.

~Liza

Let me understand, if a child is taught about Santa then their parents are obviously overprotecting them from the world and they will grow up to not understand that life is difficult?

You are making some broad assumptions that you can’t back up with either facts or statistics. Even among your friends, is there really that big a difference between the kids who believe in Santa and those who don’t?

Why does such a silly issue have to be so black and white? We all make different decisions based on what is right for our families. I respect your right not to teach your kids about Santa.:hug1:

But both sides need to not stereotype the opposite viewpoint.

 

[lizaanne]

Why does such a silly issue have to be so black and white? We all make different decisions based on what is right for our families. I respect your right not to teach your kids about Santa.:hug1:

Because it is - either you choose to do this or you don’t. A or B. Yes or No. Black or White. Unless someone comes up with some fuzzy gray in between thing - it is just that, a binary decision. That does not in any way mean that one way or the other is necessarily right. I am voicing my views about how I feel about something. If someone feels they are being judged by what I feel is how I would raise my own family, then I have to respectfully say that they are way too touchy and taking comments far too personally that have nothing to do with them.

The question was posed and it was answered. That’s all. No personal attacks or judgment.

~Liza

 

[deb1]

Because it is - either you choose to do this or you don’t. A or B. Yes or No. Black or White.
~Liza

I was talking about moral black and white. You just mean the process of making a decision. We need to exchange deb1 and lizaane dictionaries so we don’t confuse one another.

 

[lizaanne]

I was talking about moral black and white. You just mean the process of making a decision. We need to exchange deb1 and lizaane dictionaries so we don’t confuse one another.

Oh my!!! And everyone else’s too!! That would make one massive library!!!

~Liza

 

[Em_in_FL]

Therein lies the problem with this whole thread. You presume too much in knowing the motives of parents who allow their children to believe in Santa.

Whether due to ignorance or arrogance, ou apparently think you have a window into their minds. Now, if we accept that you cannot presume to know what their motives are (my parents did not allow the Santa myth so as to indulge themselves, so you are wrong on at least one case), then we are left with the issue of the truth.

So is this thread about judging parents motives, or being 100% honest with children?

If the former, none of us know, and the topic title is wrong. If the latter, then as I have pointed out in the examples I stated, most if not all parents are guilty of lying to their children, and by default, sinning. “Hyper-literal” means nothing whereas the truth is concerned. Something is either 100% true, or false. Another way of saying it anything that is mostly true is completely false, in terms of the definitions of the words.

I am very thankful that I was allowed to actually enjoy my childhood and indulge in fantasies about Santa. It wasn’t as though it took away from time spent praying with my mother, going to confession, and attending the best Catholic schools in the Baltimore area. A belief in Santa and a belief in Christ are not mutually-exclusive.

You’d think adults who believed in Santa as a child were turning into a bunch of rogue heretics the way you post.

No, it was poor leadership and catechisis from their parents that screwed most wayward Catholics up. Santa had nothing to do with it…

Couldn’t agree more!

 

[dixieagle]

I personally think he’s dead on. The problem with many children today is that they are so sheltered and cloistered in their childhood for so long - some well into their early 20’s - that when the real world hits them in the face they have no resources to react with. There is nothing wrong with being truthful and realistic with children - that does not mean there is a lack of love, joy, and gladness in the home. It means that it is a realistic love, joy, and gladness. Not some pie in the sky, everything will always be perfect and we will always be together and no one will ever get sick or die or be poor or…sorry, I could never raise my children that way. Eric has the right idea.

~Liza

I have a feeling that, when and if you do have children, you will lighten up a little. I’ve raised several, enjoyed all the Santa Claus stuff (with a heavy dose of St. Nicholas, which we emphasized strongly, as that is my husband’s tradition) and felt that childhood should be an enjoyable, innocent, magical time, as it is over soon enough. Knowing that St. Nicholas was, indeed, a real bishop, certainly eased the “transition” from SC with minimal upset.

That is not to say that we “sheltered” them; they were well catechized, traveled extensively with us even as little children, learned about the world and engaged in discussions of current issues of importance (pro-life issues, “from conception to natural death” have always been central to us.)

One does not have to approach life grimly, emphasizing the “vale of tears” part in order to produce moral, practicing Catholics. I find much of Other Eric’s post downright disturbing:

*"The job of a parent is not to sit in wonder of a child’s fantastic delusions. Instead, every child needs to be given a harsh dose of reality so that he or she may grow up well grounded. I find that *romantic notions of childhood innocence are puerile at best and have absolutely no place in my house.
**
My son has learned to recite the story of Saint Nicholas punching the heretic Arius at the Council of Nicea. It is from this story that he has learned that disseminating the truth will sometimes mean the use of force. That is the appropriate way to expose children to the memory of the saint, not through some sugarcoated fantasy involving magic, elves and other things alien to Christianity."

Far from “disseminating the truth” with “the use of force”, my daughters prefer St. Francis of Assisi’s approach:“Preach the gospel always; use words when necessary.” Infinitely more effective in the long run than punching someone.

You are right, however, about “helicopter parents” who hover over their children into their twenties, sheltering them, interceding on their behalf…completely unhelpful to the child. This is, however, a different issue entirely from parents who simply allow their children to enjoy the Santa Claus story.

 

[mlchance]

I personally think he’s dead on. The problem with many children today is that they are so sheltered and cloistered in their childhood for so long…

IME, after a bit more than a decade of working with children, the exact opposite problem is much more prevalent. Most children I see nowadays have parents who are largely absent without leave. The children watch what they want, go where they want, do what they want, and very seldom do their parents offer anything other than vague assurances and excuses.

Recommend reading: The Hurried Child.

– Mark L. Chance.