J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Jimmy B though you are a “Roman Catholic” I am a Latin Catholic. What faith are you again?
quote]Both…same-same…
- Status
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Both…same-same…Jimmy B though you are a “Roman Catholic” I am a Latin Catholic. What faith are you again?
Every time I see this thread rise to the top it just sends chills up my spine…it gives me the creeps.
Oops, put it on top again…
S
Syele
Guest
Sure Jimmy, by Human standards, there are Lots of very good people and lots who are not so good. you seem like a good person, and I do try to be a good person too. Hitler wasn’t such a good person. And naturally, I can see the difference just as you can. Usually. Ever noticed how many serial killers are good looking clean cut and seemed like nice people… Just ask people who knew them before they knew they were mass murderers. Its a lot of them. Scary huh? Its a Good thing God judges by the heart and not the appearance of goodness.Hello Syele,
That’s ok… you are not bursting my bubble…
I appreciate what you are saying here because most people at some point sin and therefore are sinners but that does not mean that all people are bad.
For example, there is a clearly a difference between the child who is molested and the child molester; the woman who is raped and the rapist; the murder victim and the murderer and so on.
There does exist good guys and bad guys in this world and everything kind of person, in between. There are people on one end of the spectrum, like Jeffrey Dahmer, who is very bad and an innocent child on the other end…who is good.
I don’t think anyone would confuse Jeffrey Dahmer with the little old lady who goes to Mass every day.
Don’t you agree?
BTW, you seem like a good person…
Peace
But Gods Standard is a bit different. We Cannot hold God to OUR standards. And He says we all fall short. Even our thoughts can be sinful… those don’t show up when the other humans see us helping the symbolic nice old lady across the street. I wont bother to quote Romans 3:23… all not meaning all and all.
Ill use 1 John instead…So we can be cleansed when we repent, and become truly righteous, but we cannot say we have not sinned… that would be a lie.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello again Syele,Sure Jimmy, by Human standards, there are Lots of very good people and lots who are not so good. you seem like a good person, and I do try to be a good person too. Hitler wasn’t such a good person. And naturally, I can see the difference just as you can. Usually. Ever noticed how many serial killers are good looking clean cut and seemed like nice people… Just ask people who knew them before they knew they were mass murderers. Its a lot of them. Scary huh? Its a Good thing God judges by the heart and not the appearance of goodness.
But Gods Standard is a bit different. We Cannot hold God to OUR standards. And He says we all fall short. Even our thoughts can be sinful… those don’t show up when the other humans see us helping the symbolic nice old lady across the street. I wont bother to quote Romans 3:23… all not meaning all and all.
So we can be cleansed when we repent, and become truly righteous, but we cannot say we have not sinned… that would be a lie.
Thank you…I agree….Excellent post!
God bless you!
P
pyropam
Guest
It is obvious that Jeffery Dahmer suffered from mental disorders,
so can he therefore be held accountable for all of his actions? Are we as a society not responsible for persons who are suffering when we see it and do nothing???
God alone decides who makes the final count and enters heaven.
so can he therefore be held accountable for all of his actions? Are we as a society not responsible for persons who are suffering when we see it and do nothing???
God alone decides who makes the final count and enters heaven.
C
Cathdefender
Guest
Then if murderers can in fact go to heaven, we people who live the life God chose us to live are being cheated…Dahmer can NOT be in heaven. He has to be frying with Hitler, Stahlin, Napolean and the likes of these evil people.
R
ralphinal
Guest
First, we need to all read about Jonah again. God can grant his mercy to whomever askes for it without our permission. Then we need to re-read the parable of the workers. Those who came late got the full pay. Again, it is fair. Why? Because those who are doing the work of God the whole time have agreed to that job. It is not up to us to decide what is the reward and who is rewarded and how.
I cannot say where he is. I should not say that it is not fair if he did repent and get to heaven. I will not say that I don’t want to go to heaven if he is there.
I will say that if he did repent and does go to heaven, how wonderful and merciful is our God. That should be something that reinforces our faith.
I cannot say where he is. I should not say that it is not fair if he did repent and get to heaven. I will not say that I don’t want to go to heaven if he is there.
I will say that if he did repent and does go to heaven, how wonderful and merciful is our God. That should be something that reinforces our faith.
L
LutheranDK
Guest
A certain parabel comes to mind. Read Matt 20:1-16.
If Dahmer came to Christ, THEN he is saved, period. Regardless of how horrible atrocities he has comitted.
I don’t know about you, but I do good works because I know they are pleasing to my Father in Heaven, and because I want to glorify Him with my life. Not because I want to save myself through my works. Because I can’t.
C
Cathdefender
Guest
So, what would you define as to coming to Christ? The Sinners Prayer? Because that won’t save you. And it certainly isn’t in the bible.
L
LutheranDK
Guest
What is this “The Sinner’s Prayer” that I keep hearing about?
Coming to Christ means believing in His sacrifice on Calvary, and that by this sacrifice, the door to Paradise is opened for all those who trusts in Him. If JD repented, was baptized (at least this part seems obvious), and professed his faith in Christ, then yes: He is saved.
No person will be saved unless they come to Christ in one way or the other, regardless of how many nice old ladies they helped across the street.
IF JD came to faith, then he IS saved. If we lose our faith, then we are damned, regardless of the number and strength of our good works.
C
catharina
Guest
Stupid and tasteless question.
Only possible answer: we can’t know the answer.
Only possible answer: we can’t know the answer.
E
elvisman
Guest
Your childish anti-Catholic hatred aside - the Catholic Church is the Catholic Church. There is only One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church - and you don’t belong to it.
Let me give you and your fellow Catholic-haters a little lesson:
The Byzantine, Maronite, et al. are RITES that are in communion with the Church in Rome. The Latin Rite is what I adhere to. We are not “denominations” - Protestants invented “denominations” when they divorced themselves from Chirst’s ONLY Church. We are ONE, as Jesus prayed for us to remain ONE (John 17:11-23).
There, there, now . . . was that so hard to understand?
On a side note, LutheranDK, how old are you?
V
Valke2
Guest
Sure sounds like you are one. I’ve never seen so much unity.
L
LutheranDK
Guest
LOL - this is great! You accuse me in some of the foulest language I’ve yet heard on this site of being a “catholic-hater”, and what not. I guess the irony of this is lost on you…
The Roman-Catholic church is a branch, the largest in fact, on the tree that is the Catholic church, to which ALL Christians belong.
The only one who’s being childish here is you.
As for my age - 24, not that it’s any of your business, nor relevant here. What’s yours? Shouldn’t you be watching a cartoon in stead of interrupting a conversation between grown-ups?
P
Pug
Guest
In the USA, it is common enough for people to have had the experience of some person approaching them and maybe giving them a short brochure that starts by telling them that all have sinned and fallen short and by the end asking them to pray a short prayer that accepts Jesus into their heart (the sinner’s prayer). Then you are either asked to report that you have accepted Christ to whomever gave you the brochure or to any nearby church so that you can be part of a larger community. The brochures I have seen are associated with a belief that salvation cannot be lost through any action on your part after the moment of acceptance.
And anyone who has been justified by faith in baptism is part of Christ’s body, including Lutherans. Vatican 2 documents describe that those like them are in imperfect communion with the Catholic Church. It is real. There is a connection there.
There exist, oh, I don’t know what to call them, obvious obstacles that are getting in the way of perfect unity. Like that people believe different doctrine.
S
Syele
Guest
The sinners Prayer is just a prayer of repentance. When people are told about the Gospel, they are often told that they should pray to confess their sins and ask Jesus to become Lord over their lives. Many people here seem to think its some sort of magic charm.
M
mozart-250
Guest
The dictionary disagrees with you.
Oh by the way elvisman…great example of charity in your post. You certainly have a way of making Catholicism very appealing to those of us who are not Catholics.
Z
Zooey
Guest
No, he did not suffer from mental disorders. And yes, he can be held accountable for all his actions.
Dahmer (like others like him) suffered from a moral disorder, not a mental one…He knew perfectly well what the difference was, between right and wrong, and he just plain
didn’t care.This is the very essence of the sociopathic personality. Each believes he (or she) is the center of the universe, & has a right to do whatever he wants in order to be what s/he considers “happy”.
That is, in point of fact, the reason this question draws emotion from us. There is a vast gulf drawn between the thoughts of the average human heart, and the thoughts of a sociopath.
That argument is a nonstarter in re Jeffrey Dahmer (& Co). They don’t suffer from the desire to kill people. They love killing people. It may, in point of fact, be the only thing that they do enjoy.
They’d rather kill people than stuff themselves with chocolate, or chase after wine women & song.
To see those suffering & seek to help, we would have to go back to the point where Dahmer started out, &** protect folks from him**.
Yes. Precisely. It is the “mercies of God that we are not **all **consumed”. (Lamentations).
“I tremble for my country when I remember that God is just”–Thomas Jefferson.
None of us are “nice people”. There are no “nice people”; if some of us were “nice”, Jesus could have stayed off the Cross of Calvary.
The question isn’t whether the choice is between nice people and not-so-nice people. :dts: The question is whether anyone is getting dragged into Heaven kicking & screaming all the way, that they don’t want to come.
That is because, while none of us are nice, many of us are sane, & hence have a different value set from those who make an amusement of torturing people to death. We don’t do it, because we don’t get the same payoff from it; if we did the same payoff, we most likely would do it. That could be an argument for another thread & another day.
But just don’t be fooled that any of us are “nice people”, “good people”. We’re worth about 2 cents, tops, really…
It’s all grace, my friends. It’s all grace.:twocents:
E
elvisman
Guest
The Catholic Church is the ONLY Church established by Jesus Christ - and you don’t belong to it. Maybe that’s where the anger comes from.
You are a Catholic-hater. If that seems “foul” to you, then maybe it’s you who needs to change.
My suggestion to you is to, well, grow up and stop the hatred. A little Christian charity would also be nice.
**My, my - 24 and still so full of hate. Most people grow out of that sort of thing by the time they’re in their early 20’s.
I’ll keep you in prayer.
**PS - Study your Church history a little closer. I’m certain you’ll see the light . . .
**
E
elvisman
Guest
Ummmm . . . how so? Just giving you the facts, my friend.
Protestantism is a divorced faction. Can’t face the facts? Then come home to the fullness of the Gospel. Jesus’s ONLY Church - the Catholic Church.
- Status