Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

[yellowbird]

If that thought comforts you, then any murderer will go to heaven according to our Lord. That isn’t comforting to me…knowing I could go out and kill someone knowing I’d be in heaven?

Yes, any murderer who repents and asks God to forgive him for his sins can go to heaven. That is a GOOD thing.

The key word is can though… no one should presume they are going to heaven.

And I wouldn’t reccomend you go out and kill people just to test God’s mercy. Bad idea all the way around.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Only if the person knows that he is supposed to go to mass, knows that it is gravely sinful not to go, is able to go, but decides not to go anyway.

I would think that most non-Catholics do not fulfill all of these pre-requisites.

God bless,
Paul

Thank you Paul,

I know that and I agree, knowledge is an element; in sin committed. .

However, I also believe that today there exists too much of an emphasis on what, “God will do for us”… for example, “save us” and not enough of an emphasis place on, “what we are suppose to do for God.”

Some of the comments here prove this point. For example, there should be more of an emphasis on Dahmer’s victims (May God have mercy on their souls and May they rest in peace) and on the evil committed, than on Dahmer.

I am sure that the family of Dahmer’s victims, find some comfort in the fact that bad people go to Hell and that good people go to Heaven. Is there anything wrong with that?

Your thoughts?

Peace

 

[yellowbird]

I am sure that the family of Dahmer’s victims, find some comfort in the fact that bad people go to Hell and that good people go to Heaven. Is there anything wrong with that?

Peace

I don’t believe the Bible teaches that bad people go to hell & good people go to heaven. That sounds too much like a reward system - or Karma.

I think forgiven people (even those who have done horrible things) go to heaven & the unforgiven, even if they are basically pretty good (think Atheists) go to hell.

 

[yellowbird]

Some of the comments here prove this point. For example, there should be more of an emphasis on Dahmer’s victims (May God have mercy on their souls and May they rest in peace) and on the evil committed, than on Dahmer.

But the original question didn’t ask what everyone thought of Dahmer’s victims - it only asked our opinion about Dahmer.

I hope that his victims are in heaven also. I hope they were sorry for their sins and they died in a state of grace. Do I think that they will automatically go to heaven because of the awful way in which they died? Nope. The bible doesn’t support that. It says we will all stand before God in judgement, none of us knowing the hour of our death.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I just wanted to comment on this…

I saw a TV interview once with him…and as chilling as it was, he did mention “finding” God in prison and was baptized.
Baptism cleanses us of all sins…so he could be in heaven.

We just don’t know.

 

[Pong]

I am sure that the family of Dahmer’s victims, find some comfort in the fact that bad people go to Hell and that good people go to Heaven. Is there anything wrong with that?

Yes, actually. Taking comfort in the idea that someone else is suffering, either in this life or the next, is not Christ-like. Something about that “pray for those who persecute you, love your enemies, bit.” If Christ could forgive those who crucified him even as he hung on the cross, then we too can forgive those who have wronged us, even in the most heinous of ways. That means, among other things, not wishing them to burn in hell.

 

[cecilia97]

I saw a documentary done on Dahmer before he died, and it showed his baptism in a bathtub at the prison. I believe it used the Trinitarian formula. If that was his first baptism, all those sins were remitted, yes?

 

[Zooey]

I think that I am glad that it is up to God who gets into heaven and who does not. Only God can know the condition of one’s soul at the moment of death.

Annie

Exactly!!

I will go with both “possible” and “unlikely”. The thing about him becoming ‘born again’ in the evangelical sense is true, but there is no way to know how sincere or insincere he was in that, or what the state of his soul was at the moment of his death.

Yes. We know that he could have been sincere. Or, he could have been working a con.
But we simply lack the capacity to say, “this person went to Heaven”, or “that one went to hell”.

 

[Jimmy_B]

I don’t believe the Bible teaches that bad people go to hell & good people go to heaven. That sounds too much like a reward system - or Karma.

I think forgiven people (even those who have done horrible things) go to heaven & the unforgiven, even if they are basically pretty good (think Atheists) go to hell.

Hello yellowbird,

The Catholic Church teaches that we are save by Grace, Faith and Works…So, there does exist an element of “reward” but not in the sense of “karma” or “works alone”.

“Good Works”, is doing those things that are pleasing to God. Heaven is the reward and Hell is a punishment…There is a Heaven and there is a Hell. Simply stated, good people go to Heaven and Bad people go to Hell.

You are correct when you wrote, “I think forgiven people… go to heaven & the unforgiven…go to hell."

Might point here, is that there is not a requirement for us to assume that an evil person has gone to Heaven.

Show me in the Catechism, where I must assume that an evil person has gone to heaven…it is not there.

I think, some here may be confusing some of these issues.

Peace

 

[bilop]

I saw a documentary done on Dahmer before he died, and it showed his baptism in a bathtub at the prison. I believe it used the Trinitarian formula. If that was his first baptism, all those sins were remitted, yes?

Only if he was truly remorseful and had intention to sins no more. If it was a con, his sins would not be forgiven. Just like if we are not remorseful, confession does not absolve our sins.

He also could have committed sins after baptism.

Bottom line, we have no way of knowing.

If someone made me guess, I’d say no. I doubt someone that eveil and depraved was capable of contrition.

God Bless

 

[cecilia97]

Only if he was truly remorseful and had intention to sins no more. If it was a con, his sins would not be forgiven. Just like if we are not remorseful, confession does not absolve our sins.

He also could have committed sins after baptism.

Bottom line, we have no way of knowing.

If someone made me guess, I’d say no. I doubt someone that eveil and depraved was capable of contrition.

God Bless

…maybe through a movement of the Holy Spirit. Just sayin’…

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Hello yellowbird,

The Catholic Church teaches that we are save by Grace, Faith and Works…So, there does exist an element of “reward” but not in the sense of “karma” or “works alone”.

“Good Works”, is doing those things that are pleasing to God. Heaven is the reward and Hell is a punishment…There is a Heaven and there is a Hell. Simply stated, good people go to Heaven and Bad people go to Hell.

It’s not that simple Jimmy and you know that. Good people do bad things sometimes and bad people do good things. That statement has no logical or meaningful value. How do you define “good people” and “bad people”. It’s a bit childish to view things this way.

You are correct when you wrote, “I think forgiven people… go to heaven & the unforgiven…go to hell."

Might point here, is that there is not a requirement for us to assume that an evil person has gone to Heaven.

And many of us are also saying that there is no requirement for US to assume that an evil person (whoever that is) has gone to hell either. Frankly, I would rather fall on the side of mercy than condemnation, just like my Lord Jesus alluded to in the John 3:16 onward.

Show me in the Catechism, where I must assume that an evil person has gone to heaven…it is not there.

I think, some here may be confusing some of these issues.

Peace

Show me in the Catechism where I must assume that an evil person has gone to hell. I can make the same infantile arguments. Some here are confusing the issues INDEED.

If you want to spend your life showing the faults of others you have to be aware that this leads to self-righteousness and ultimately it is easy to run past our own sins in the process. No condemnation here. Just trying to encourage a fellow Christian in his own walk with the Lord.

Peace to you…

MW

 

[Jimmy_B]

As a Catholic, if I can assume that, if I do this or that, that I might go to Hell, why is it unreasonable for me to assume the same for others who commit the same sins?

I am not assuming anyone’s “final judgment”; I am coming to a reasonable conclusion. I believe that there is a good chance that Dahmer is in Hell and I am comforted by the fact that God is both Just and Merciful.

Some of you here seem to get the “Merciful” side of God and leave out the “Just” side of God. We are to love, worship, obey, honor, respect and fear God.

Some here are reading more into what Dahmer may or may not have done, to gain his salvation… and too much into my comments, as well.

When horrible things like what Dahmer did occurs, there should be as much of an emphasis put on mercy as there is on judgement and that’s my point here.

God looks after the victims and He punishes those who victimize.

This belief in not contrary to Catholicism…

I also believe that, too many people today, put an emphasis on a supect’s rights and not enough of an emphasis on the victim’s rights and that’s wrong.

When Dahmer killed his victims, isn’t it posible that he cut their lives short, before they had a chance to repent and now they go to Hell and Dahmer, according to some of you is going to heaven…because “he was baptized in a bathtub”…I don’t think so.

Peace

 

[historyb]

Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

Here is an article that claims that Jeffrey Dahmer, the admitted homosexual, who abducted, raped, tortured, murdered and cannibalized many young innocent victims, became a “born-again” Christian while in prison…

Does this mean that “born again” and other Protestant Christians believe that Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven?

Are his victims in heaven with him?

Is it possible that some of his victims are not in heaven and he is?

Do you agree with this Martin Luther quote? -

“No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”
“Let Your Sins Be Strong: A Letter from Luther to Melanchthon”.– c.1521)

I believe that we are judged by our “works”, good and bad. I also believe that a virtuous life does have merit. I do not believe that there exists an automatic “Get out of Hell” card.

I believe in God’s infinite mercy and I believe that anything is possible in God; however, I also believe that bad people go to Hell. Jeffrey Dahmer is a bad person so doesn’t that mean that he is in Hell?

Additionally, I have read that Jeffrey Dahmer was involved in the Occult, or satanic worship, wouldn’t this behavior, fall under, “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit”, the un-forgivable sin?

I do not believe that Jeffery Dahmer is in heaven, what do you think?

He may be in Purgatory, Heaven I don’t know.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

As a Catholic, if I can assume that, if I do this or that, that I might go to Hell, why is it unreasonable for me to assume the same for others who commit the same sins?

You know what assuming does, don’t you?
Jimmy B:

I am not assuming anyone’s “final judgment”; I am coming to a reasonable conclusion. I believe that there is a good chance that Dahmer is in Hell and I am comforted by the fact that God is both Just

and Merciful.

Some of you here seem to get the “Merciful” side of God and leave out the “Just” side of God. We are to love, worship, obey, honor, respect and fear God.

He is both just and merciful and only He knows the boundaries of those two values. You act as if our Father is sitting on His throne waiting to write down our next sin. I don’t believe He is. Based on what I know of Him and the Scriptures, I believe He is much more into redeeming those who seem unredeemable. Remember the one sheep out of 100 who went astray that the Shepherd went to find and how happy he was that he found it. There’s a good lesson in there for you and me.
Jimmy B:
Some here are reading more into what Dahmer may or may not have done, to gain his salvation… and too much into my comments.

When horrible things like what Dahmer did occurs, there should be as much of an emphasis put mercy as there is on judgement and thats my point here.
Why I keep responding to this thread I don’t know. Boredom I guess. Frankly, I see the opposite happen when someone does wrong. Everybody is quick to jump onto the person committing the crime. In my mind, there should be more emphasis on the victims and helping them. But, there has to be some balance somewhere.
Jimmy B:

I also believe that too many people who put an emphasis on a supects rights, than they do on the victims rights and thats wrong.

When Dahmer killed his victims, isn’t it posible that he cut their lives short, before they had a chance to repent and now they go to Hell and Dahmer, according to some of you is going to heaven…because “he was baptized in a bathtub”…I don’t think so.

Peace

I don’t put any emphasis on the rights of the criminal. They really shouldn’t have any and should be justly punished by society. But for me it ends there. You put them away so as to not hurt anyone else and hope they change. You should read back into the Catechism about baptisms and especially baptism of desire. It’s not up to you or I to condemn this person to hell or reward them with Heaven. That’s Jesus’s prerogative.

Peace…

MW

 

[Jimmy_B]

You know what assuming does, don’t you?

He is both just and merciful and only He knows the boundaries of those two values. You act as if our Father is sitting on His throne waiting to write down our next sin. I don’t believe He is. Based on what I know of Him and the Scriptures, I believe He is much more into redeeming those who seem unredeemable. Remember the one sheep out of 100 who went astray that the Shepherd went to find and how happy he was that he found it. There’s a good lesson in there for you and me.
Why I keep responding to this thread I don’t know. Boredom I guess. Frankly, I see the opposite happen when someone does wrong. Everybody is quick to jump onto the person committing the crime. In my mind, there should be more emphasis on the victims and helping them. But, there has to be some balance somewhere.

I don’t put any emphasis on the rights of the criminal. They really shouldn’t have any and should be justly punished by society. But for me it ends there. You put them away so as to not hurt anyone else and hope they change. You should read back into the Catechism about baptisms and especially baptism of desire. It’s not up to you or I to condemn this person to hell or reward them with Heaven. That’s Jesus’s prerogative.

Peace…

MW

Hello Mystic Warrior,

I am fully aware of what the Catholic Church’s position is regarding adult Baptism. The Catechism doesn’t apply here because we have to “assume” that Dahmer was properly baptized…You know what assuming does, don’t you?

Besides that, It is important to note that Catholics share the “hope” of salvation and not a belief in a “guaranteed salvation”….That is the OSAS crowd, not us.

It is not a Catholic belief, to “assume” the “salvation” of Dahmer is “guaranteed”, “because he may have been “baptized in a bathtub” (by person who was not a Catholic priest).

You seem to have a problem with my assumptions here that, there is a good chance that Dahmer is in Hell… but for some reason, do not have a problem the assumption that there is a good chance that Dahmer is in Heaven…

I don’t get it…Your thought?

Peace

 

[Pong]

As a Catholic, if I can assume that, if I do this or that, that I might go to Hell, why is it unreasonable for me to assume the same for others who commit the same sins?

Because although you may well know the state of your own soul and the circumstances of your own sin, you cannot know the same of others.

When Dahmer killed his victims, isn’t it posible that he cut their lives short, before they had a chance to repent and now they go to Hell and Dahmer, according to some of you is going to heaven…because “he was baptized in a bathtub”…I don’t think so.

Jimmy, I don’t know why you even bother with Catholicism in the first place. You clearly don’t belive in the mercy of God, or indeed in showing mercy to others, so why claim membership in a faith that puts so much stock in those two things? :ehh:

I don’t see where anyone has said that they know that Dahmer is in heaven. We Catholics don’t tend to do that unless talking about a canonized person. If Dahmer cut the lives of his victims short and they did not have a chance to repent, don’t you think God already knew that? He is omnipotent, afterall. If Dahmer’s end of life repentence was sincere and his baptism by the protestant preacher was valid, then there is a good chance that he is either in, or on his way to heaven.

bilop-

If someone made me guess, I’d say no. I doubt someone that eveil and depraved was capable of contrition.

God does not hold us responsible for that which we are not capable of.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Hello Mystic Warrior,

I am fully aware of what the Catholic Church’s position is regarding adult Baptism. The Catechism doesn’t apply here because we have to “assume” that Dahmer was properly baptized…You know what assuming does, don’t you?

I’m not assuming he was properly baptized. I don’t know if he was. I’ve never even seen an interview with him. It’s possible that he is roasting in hell as his flesh burns off and his eyes bug out of his head and as the aroma of his organs ascends up to heaven (I’m being over the top here for a reason and don’t even believe in this idea of hell). And it’s also possible he had a valid baptism and repentance. I don’t know and neither do you. I don’t assume either way. I’ve been playing the opposite side just to show you how absurd the whole argument is.

Besides that, It is important to note that Catholics share the “hope” of salvation and not a belief in a “guaranteed salvation”….That is the OSAS crowd, not us.

As I’ve not questioned his salvation or lack of it, this is a moot point. To be honest, I live my Christian life very simply. I don’t read theological works. I don’t bury my head in books. I read my Bible, I attend church (sporadically), I pray often, I sin often, I confess often and I do the best I can to glorify God while I usually fall very short. God’s grace is amazing.

It is not a Catholic belief, to “assume” the “salvation” of Dahmer is “guaranteed”, “because he may have been “baptized in a bathtub” (by person who was not a Catholic priest).

You seem to have a problem with my assumptions here that, there is a good chance that Dahmer is in Hell… but for some reason, do not have a problem the assumption that he might be in Heaven…

I don’t get it…Your thought?

Peace

I don’t believe in guaranteeing anyone’s salvation, not mine, not yours, not Dahmers. I also don’t believe in condemning anyone’s apparent lack of salvation, not mine, not yours and not Dahmers. My personal view of salvation, heaven and hell is abnormal and not within keeping with the thread topic. I just don’t see the importance in arguing for the idea that Dahmer is in hell and being personally pleased with the idea. I simply let God be who He is while I work out my own salvation.

Peace…

MW

 

[Jimmy_B]

Because although you may well know the state of your own soul and the circumstances of your own sin, you cannot know the same of others.

Jimmy, I don’t know why you even bother with Catholicism in the first place. You clearly don’t belive in the mercy of God, or indeed in showing mercy to others, so why claim membership in a faith that puts so much stock in those two things? :ehh:

I don’t see where anyone has said that they know that Dahmer is in heaven. We Catholics don’t tend to do that unless talking about a canonized person. If Dahmer cut the lives of his victims short and they did not have a chance to repent, don’t you think God already knew that? He is omnipotent, afterall. If Dahmer’s end of life repentence was sincere and his baptism by the protestant preacher was valid, then there is a good chance that he is either in, or on his way to heaven.

bilop-

God does not hold us responsible for that which we are not capable of.

Hello Pong,

Why are misquoting me…judging me and assuming what is in my heart?

So, it is all right for you come to the wrong conclusion about me, an observant Catholic and a fellow Catholic but not ok for me to write, that I believe that there is a good chance that Dahmer is in hell. Please go back and read my posts…

Please help me, the person that you think, “Shouldn’t even bother with Catholicism”… and point out something that I actually wrote here and show me where specifically, it is conflict with the Catechism…

“I want to go to heaven, like Jeffrey Dahmer”…

I hope God’s mercy is not just reserved for Mass Murderers.

BTW, I think that I will ignore your advice and remain in the Catholic Church…Shame on you .:tsktsk:

Be nice…

 

[Pong]

Please do tell me, Jimmy, where I misquoted you. I did take those quotes directly from your replies on the thread.

BTW, I think that I will ignore your advice and remain in the Catholic Church…Shame on you.

Shame yourself. I’m not the one mocking Dahmer’s baptism.