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Jimmy_B
Guest
Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?
Your thoughts?
Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?
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MatthewBerkeley
Guest
Hi Jimmy,
I think Lumen Gentium is the Vatican document that talks of no salvation outside the Church.
I haven’t read it yet myself, but I’ve watched a synopsis of it on ewtn and read a few explanations of it, and as far as I know what it says is:
Salvation can only be through the One Church that Jesus founded - the Catholic Church now based in Rome, but if one isn’t a member of the Church but considers the faith they follow to be the One Truth, then they can be considered ‘spiritual members’ of the Church, and salvation is not withheld from them. Of course, actual members have a great advantage over spiritual members, as we have the seven Sacraments to help us whereas Protestants have maximum two.
I’m open to correction on any of the above, because as I said, I haven’t read the document, just learned about it through other people.
God bless
I think Lumen Gentium is the Vatican document that talks of no salvation outside the Church.
I haven’t read it yet myself, but I’ve watched a synopsis of it on ewtn and read a few explanations of it, and as far as I know what it says is:
Salvation can only be through the One Church that Jesus founded - the Catholic Church now based in Rome, but if one isn’t a member of the Church but considers the faith they follow to be the One Truth, then they can be considered ‘spiritual members’ of the Church, and salvation is not withheld from them. Of course, actual members have a great advantage over spiritual members, as we have the seven Sacraments to help us whereas Protestants have maximum two.
I’m open to correction on any of the above, because as I said, I haven’t read the document, just learned about it through other people.
God bless
N
Newbie2
Guest
Close. I’d put it more like there are those outside the “visible” Catholic Church who are “spiritually” members of the Universal Catholic Church by virtue of their beliefs. It’s not what **they **consider to be the One Truth, but whether or not they believe in and follow that objective truth. i.e. the Truth is the Truth because it is the Truth, not that their believing it objectifies it as Truth.Hi Jimmy,
I think Lumen Gentium is the Vatican document that talks of no salvation outside the Church.
I haven’t read it yet myself, but I’ve watched a synopsis of it on ewtn and read a few explanations of it, and as far as I know what it says is:
Salvation can only be through the One Church that Jesus founded - the Catholic Church now based in Rome, but if one isn’t a member of the Church but considers the faith they follow to be the One Truth, then they can be considered ‘spiritual members’ of the Church, and salvation is not withheld from them. Of course, actual members have a great advantage over spiritual members, as we have the seven Sacraments to help us whereas Protestants have maximum two.
I’m open to correction on any of the above, because as I said, I haven’t read the document, just learned about it through other people.
God bless
Greatly simplified, those outside the Catholic Church have an incomplete but **possibly **sufficient means of Salvation.
LG is a good read, particularly, if I recall correctly, paragraph 16 or thereabouts on salvation outside the Church.
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Publisher
Guest
All “salvation” is through the grace and mercy of God in Christ. Church affiliation has nothing to do with it…unless of course one believes the religious instittuion one belongs to is the “true church”…then that “colors” one’s belief…but since I believe the Catholic church is just another “man made” organization…much older of course than the Society of Friends but in the same boat as the Society of Friends…the “Roman Catholic Church” really doesn’t come into play.
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Newbie2
Guest
How does it “color” one’s beliefs?
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benidict
Guest
agreed. all salvation is through the grace and mercy of God in Christ… but how is that Grace appropriated. thru His Church. so yes Church affiliation has something to do with it. and it takes the cooperation of the one being saved. i for one, would not want to entrust my salvation to my own ideas and opinions. the Lord set up the Papacy, and the magesterium. this way we have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. and for 2000 years, they have not failed in their commision. Peace
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SteveVH
Guest
What about the group of native people in the darkest reaches of the Amazon who have never heard of Jesus Christ, through no fault of their own? I am certain that the Church teaches that they also may be saved. If they love, then God is present with them, since He is Love.
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MarineGuy
Guest
I believe there is absolutely no salvation outside the apostolic Roman Catholic Church, period. No long-winded, convoluted dissertations on how “Outside the Church there is no salvation” really means “Outside the church there is salvation”; no twisting of the dogma into a meaningless formula with inadequate explanations like “EENS just means all salvation is through Christ & the Church but one does not have to be a ‘card-carrying’ Catholic to be saved”. I believe the dogma the way the popes defined it, and that leads me to believe in order to be saved one must be a full-fledged, baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church and firmly adhere to all of her beliefs to be saved.
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to_seek
Guest
Jesus spoke volumes on the way to salvation. Nowhere does The Lord say only a particular church is the way to Him. “I am The Way, The Truth and The Light. No one can come to The Father except thru Me” All believers who put their trust, their lives into The Lords Hands have salvation. This also means to live a holy lifestyle, to serve as He served to bear good fruit, to love as He loved, to repent and confess when sin occurs.If ones lifestyle denies the reality of Christs teachings, then unless repentance occurs, one cannot in all conscience call themselves a christian. This belief that the only way is through the Catholic Church doesnt make sense nor does it sound like what Jesus would have said. He died on The Cross and shed His blood so all could be saved,. The amount of fear that people have because of this particular teaching of the Catholic Church is huge and unnecessary. Fear is not a good way to bring people to believe in a particular Churches viewpoint. It is better we fear The Living God. Salvation is thru Jesus, Gods Son, not a set of beliefs, nomatter how valid they might be, nor a particular dogma. of a particular church. I do not disrespect others viewpoints but I feel that this needs to be said loud and often, so all who are on this site forwhatever reason can be reassured what and how salvation is given. . To seek.
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benidict
Guest
agreed. he shed his blood so all could be saved. he also instituted a vehicle that would carry out the bestowing of Grace and lead one to salvation. that is His Church. if i were to believe as you do, then why do i not just become a hindu? after all, they do teach there are many paths to God. where as, Christianity teaches a narrow path. i think your understanding of what the Churches teaching is what is lacking. the Church can only teach the truth. have you ever talked to a priest about this issue? Peace to you and yoursJesus spoke volumes on the way to salvation. Nowhere does The Lord say only a particular church is the way to Him. “I am The Way, The Truth and The Light. No one can come to The Father except thru Me” All believers who put their trust, their lives into The Lords Hands have salvation. This also means to live a holy lifestyle, to serve as He served to bear good fruit, to love as He loved, to repent and confess when sin occurs.If ones lifestyle denies the reality of Christs teachings, then unless repentance occurs, one cannot in all conscience call themselves a christian. This belief that the only way is through the Catholic Church doesnt make sense nor does it sound like what Jesus would have said. He died on The Cross and shed His blood so all could be saved,. The amount of fear that people have because of this particular teaching of the Catholic Church is huge and unnecessary. Fear is not a good way to bring people to believe in a particular Churches viewpoint. It is better we fear The Living God. Salvation is thru Jesus, Gods Son, not a set of beliefs, nomatter how valid they might be, nor a particular dogma. of a particular church. I do not disrespect others viewpoints but I feel that this needs to be said loud and often, so all who are on this site forwhatever reason can be reassured what and how salvation is given. . To seek.
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to_seek
Guest
Thanks for the replyagreed. he shed his blood so all could be saved. he also instituted a vehicle that would carry out the bestowing of Grace and lead one to salvation. that is His Church. if i were to believe as you do, then why do i not just become a hindu? after all, they do teach there are many paths to God. where as, Christianity teaches a narrow path. i think your understanding of what the Churches teaching is what is lacking. the Church can only teach the truth. have you ever talked to a priest about this issue? Peace to you and yours
The reason why you would not choose to become a Hindu is because Hindus do not believe in what I suppose one could call the christian way. It is essential to believe in The Trinity, The Crucifiction, Resurrection through Gods Son to claim to be a follower of Christ, and Hindus do not subscribe to those beliefs nor do any eastern religons. I would love to talk with a Priest actually and it is my intention to do so.Do you believe that the Catholic Church is the only way to salvation and what do you base that belief on? Where do you think that the Bible fits in versus Papal doctrines and various dogma that interestingly were written by different Popes at different ages? Why would that knowledge come about in different eras and not in St Peters time when surely all the Truth would have been complete then? Curious, to seek.
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MarineGuy
Guest
Actually, To Seek, Jesus DID teach salvation is through one Church. He founded only ONE Church, the Catholic Church. He refers to the Church as “My fold”, of which He is the Shepherd, and we are His sheep. Scripture teaches that Jesus died for the Church and “purchased her with His own blood.” He didn’t die for the Church so that membership could be optional. The Catholic Church & the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ are one and the same thing; where the Head is, the Body will follow.Jesus spoke volumes on the way to salvation. Nowhere does The Lord say only a particular church is the way to Him. “I am The Way, The Truth and The Light. No one can come to The Father except thru Me” All believers who put their trust, their lives into The Lords Hands have salvation. This also means to live a holy lifestyle, to serve as He served to bear good fruit, to love as He loved, to repent and confess when sin occurs.If ones lifestyle denies the reality of Christs teachings, then unless repentance occurs, one cannot in all conscience call themselves a christian. This belief that the only way is through the Catholic Church doesnt make sense nor does it sound like what Jesus would have said. He died on The Cross and shed His blood so all could be saved,. The amount of fear that people have because of this particular teaching of the Catholic Church is huge and unnecessary. Fear is not a good way to bring people to believe in a particular Churches viewpoint. It is better we fear The Living God. Salvation is thru Jesus, Gods Son, not a set of beliefs, nomatter how valid they might be, nor a particular dogma. of a particular church. I do not disrespect others viewpoints but I feel that this needs to be said loud and often, so all who are on this site forwhatever reason can be reassured what and how salvation is given. . To seek.
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me_again
Guest
If a Catholic goes to heaven, it is through Jesus.
If a Protestant goes to heaven, it is through Jesus.
If a Buddist, Muslim or a (insert your choice here) goes to heaven, it is through Jesus.
If a heathen who has never heard of Christianity goes to heaven, it is through Jesus.
Jesus alone is the Judge who judges the hearts of all men and He alone determines who will enter His kingdom. It is, after all, His kingdom!!!
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to_seek
Guest
Hi, I beg to differ on a few points youve made. Jesus taught that Salvation is thru Him, not a church. Jesus died and shed His Blood so all men could be saved. There is no other way but thru Jesus…All christians, true believers, are His sheep and yes He knows who His sheep are. I was brought up by the same traditions and beliefs as you were.However, if you read Scripture I do not see anything relating to The Catholic Church being the only vehical. I am more inclined to think that all believers are part of the universal church, a body of people who believe. We are instructed to meet together as a body, just as early believers did, nothing more or less. Just remeber too, that all forms of churches professing to be part of this body, are instituted by genuine people to guide and lead the flock.I simply cannot see why Jesus would form such a complicated structure as the RC is and say all must go through that.way and that way alone. Tell me do you refer to the Pope as Holy Father as a lot of catholics do? With respect for the Papacy, we are told clearly not to call anyone Father and certainly not holy. Yes certainly respect for authority needs to be shown, but revering a human being is a different thing. I think we are all called to be in union together as brothers and sisters in Christ. Let there not be dissensions etc etc amongst you is a phrase that comes to mind.Jesus knew people well. He would have known all the events , dissensions etc to come. Why would He not embrace all christian churches knowing people prefer to worship in different ways. I am speaking only of christian forms of worship.Please do give me passages refering to direct statements of Christ that indicate the Catholic way is the only way He meant. Not Papal dogmas etc etc.I do respect peoples choices in choosing to be a Rc, but it should go bothways as none of us have the full picture, as we werent there at that time. Respectfully, to seek.
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benidict
Guest
hi to seek. thank you for your kind reply, and i admit, it was a bit tongue and cheek with the hindu comment.Thanks for the reply
here is what i believe. yes for someone such as myself, who has come under conviction, that the Catholic Church is the One True Church, there is no salvation for one who has come to that conclusion, who does not do all he/she can to Join Her. this is also what i believe the magesterium teaches. 2. i believe the Church came before the new testament. it was the by the Churches authority given to Her by Jesus, that the n.t. came about. that authourity has not diminished with time. remember what Jesus said. the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth. it did not say all the truth would be dogma in the time of the apostles. the Pope still has the authority of ST. Peter. he can change custom, but he has never nor can change dogma. also, i think it would be awesome if you talked to a priest. hopefully, you can find one like the ones ive met. ive been so fortunate. the Lord has led me to Godly men, and Godly Catholics, who thru their words and deeds, seek and serve Jesus and their neighbor. love prayers and peace to you
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Izdaari
Guest
I’m not here to join the argument, but I will answer the question:
Salvation is only through Jesus Christ.
Salvation may be only through being in the catholic (small-c) church, i.e., the universal, invisible church, i.e. being a follower of Christ, but if so it is not conditioned on being in any particular branch of it.
Salvation is only through Jesus Christ.
Salvation may be only through being in the catholic (small-c) church, i.e., the universal, invisible church, i.e. being a follower of Christ, but if so it is not conditioned on being in any particular branch of it.
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benidict
Guest
hello my friend. not trying to draw you into the “argument”
but where in scripture do you find an “invisible” Church? when Jesus gave the parable of the wheat and the chaff, it seems to me, he was saying that the chaff would grow up with the wheat, in One Church. and that it would be seperated at the end of time. if anything, this suggest a visible Church. i would much value your thoughts on this, and some scriptural reference to an invisible Church. Peace
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Izdaari
Guest
Benedict,
Perhaps the final, edited version of my post will clarify my intent for you: In it I equate being a member of the universal, invisible church with being a Christ-follower and hence a member of the Body of Christ. I think salvation may depend on that, but that would be up to Jesus Christ, the one on whom it all depends.
I don’t find any specific references to an invisible church in Scripture, but neither do I find any references to a visible one. (Yes, I know the standard Catholic answers, but I don’t understand those passages the same way Catholics do – if I did, I’d be Catholic.) The term “invisible church” is something of a misnomer anyway, since I believe it is very visible, and impressively so, in the spiritual realm.
All that is by way of clarification only. As I said, I do not intend to participate in this debate.
Perhaps the final, edited version of my post will clarify my intent for you: In it I equate being a member of the universal, invisible church with being a Christ-follower and hence a member of the Body of Christ. I think salvation may depend on that, but that would be up to Jesus Christ, the one on whom it all depends.
I don’t find any specific references to an invisible church in Scripture, but neither do I find any references to a visible one. (Yes, I know the standard Catholic answers, but I don’t understand those passages the same way Catholics do – if I did, I’d be Catholic.) The term “invisible church” is something of a misnomer anyway, since I believe it is very visible, and impressively so, in the spiritual realm.
All that is by way of clarification only. As I said, I do not intend to participate in this debate.
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benidict
Guest
and i will accept your gracious answere my friend. but you are always welcome to join the Catholic Church…
peace and thank you.
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wmscott
Guest
PART ONE
You state “I believe the dogma the way the popes defined it, and that leads me to believe in order to be saved one must be a full-fledged, baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church and firmly adhere to all of her beliefs to be saved”. Therefore, if I understand you correctly, I just want to show you what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches. Because many in my family are good, Christian folks who I believe are on the road to salvation even though they are not “Card Carrying Catholics”
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