Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

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justasking4 said:
I know lots of catholics have their own personal views about what the their church teaches and sometimes its not in harmony with what their church says. i don’t think most catolics know their catechism that well.

Both at times.
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Saturday is the true Sabbath. A holy day of Rest. As for worshipping… we should worship God each and every day.
 
submittedjoy said:
Saturday is the true Sabbath. A holy day of Rest. As for worshipping… we should worship God each and every day.
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So you observe Saturday, not Sunday then, when you go to your church, correct? Otherwise you have equal church services on both days? Or do you not attend a church?
 
cascherman;3484515]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Huh??? If you look at what catholics believe about Mary, purgatory, indulgences, treasury of merit, praying the rosary, the pople etc you will ffind that those who wrote the NT never believed such doctrines and practices as these.
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cascherman
So what you are saying is every small minute detail about what the apostles believed was indeed written down and is in the New Testament?
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No but its all we know what they did teach is found only in the NT. To say you know of other teachings they may have done that is not recorded in the NT is to speculate.
By our common Christian interpretation (protestant and Catholic alike) Jesus is obviously, irrefutably, and simply God. But, many sects and groups use the same (or very similar) Bible to prove that Jesus is not God.
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Those that do misuse the scriptures.
Is it possible that that same ‘obvious’ interpretation formula could be applied to this situation? We (Catholics) find great evidence for purgatory, our beliefs about Mary, indulgences, good works, and the pope, you do not. Could it be simply that you just have a different Bible-view (a knock off of world view) and you view everything through those lenses? Are you sure you are viewing the Bible with the correct lenses? As a past-Lutheran I can say that the Bible makes the most sense between the two with Catholic glasses on.
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Actually its quite easy to discern from the texts of scripture whether these things were taught or not. Take Mary’s supposed assumption. There is no evidence for it in Scripture and not spoken of for centuries. I ask to look for any reference to Mary’s assumption in the scriptures and see if its even hinted at.
BTW, praying and how to do it is not dictated down to the words we use in the Bible. So there is nothing non-biblical about the Rosary.
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Of course there is. We are never exhorted or taught in the scriptures ever to pray to a created being.
In conclusion, I doubt it is safe for you to assume the apostles included everything they believed down to the minutiae of thought. Especially since many of the twelve don’t even get an inclusion in the New Testament. What is the point of Jesus even having apostles, why not just a scribe to write down his every move?
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I never said the scriptures was all the apostles taught. I’m sure they said and did more that was recorded. However since we have no written record of these things outside the scriptures all you have is speculations. You nor your church can say what it was since it was never recorded.
 
justasking4 said:
What are the doctrines of a true church?
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The doctrines of the Church that Christ founded are in the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed.

(Submittedjoy is not a Catholic, I don’t think. Catholics are required to attend Mass on Sundays, and are permitted to attend Mass every day of the week. Priests have to say Mass every day, but there is more stuff in the Sunday Mass than in the Masses for the rest of the week - extra Scripture readings, extra prayers, etc.)
 
KJK80 said:
So you observe Saturday, not Sunday then, when you go to your church, correct? Otherwise you have equal church services on both days? Or do you not attend a church?
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I attend church on Sunday. Because my husband attends church on Sunday. My heart is with the original Sabbath. Saturday. We weren’t commanded to “Worship” on the Sabbath as I recall we were commanded to “observe it as a day of rest”… this I try to do. I try to do all my work as much as possible on the other days of the week. I even work on Sunday. But I try to not cook much or clean or anything else much on Saturday. I would be tickled pink if my church would “see the light” about Saturday and hold church services on that day as well as on Sunday. This would be perfect and I would faithfully attend.
 
submittedjoy said:
I attend church on Sunday. Because my husband attends church on Sunday. My heart is with the original Sabbath. Saturday. We weren’t commanded to “Worship” on the Sabbath as I recall we were commanded to “observe it as a day of rest”… this I try to do. I try to do all my work as much as possible on the other days of the week. I even work on Sunday. But I try to not cook much or clean or anything else much on Saturday. I would be tickled pink if my church would “see the light” about Saturday and hold church services on that day as well as on Sunday. This would be perfect and I would faithfully attend.
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Why do you not attend a Sabbatarian church (such as Seventh Day Adventist, etc.)?
 
submittedjoy said:
I attend church on Sunday. Because my husband attends church on Sunday. My heart is with the original Sabbath. Saturday. We weren’t commanded to “Worship” on the Sabbath as I recall we were commanded to “observe it as a day of rest”… this I try to do. I try to do all my work as much as possible on the other days of the week. I even work on Sunday. But I try to not cook much or clean or anything else much on Saturday. I would be tickled pink if my church would “see the light” about Saturday and hold church services on that day as well as on Sunday. This would be perfect and I would faithfully attend.
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Alright, I’ll buy that. 🙂

There’s more than one church out there that worship on Saturday, though you may have a problem with other practices, I have no idea. But I sincerely appreciate your honest response.
 
KJK80 said:
OK, let’s say both… so you keep the Sabbath day holy as commanded and you attend a full church service on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday & Friday?
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I would attend every day if I could. I love the Lord that much.
 
justasking4 said:
Huh??? 🤷 If you look at what catholics believe about Mary, purgatory, indulgences, treasury of merit, praying the rosary, the pople etc you will ffind that those who wrote the NT never believed such doctrines and practices as these.
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Certainly there are many devotional practices that have developed over the course of the last 2000 years, such as the Rosary. However, none of the developments are in any way contrary to what the Apostles believed and practiced. Now, there are some modern innovations that are not consistent with Apostolic Teaching. Sola Scriptura is an example of this.

Mary was not assumed until most of the NT was already written. But all the Marian doctrines can be found in scripture, at least in seed form. Our understanding of the One Divine Deposit of Faith has improved over the years. An example of that is the concept of the Trinity, a word nowhere found in the NT, but entirely consistent with what has been written, just as are all the teachings of the church.
 
guanophore said:
Certainly there are many devotional practices that have developed over the course of the last 2000 years, such as the Rosary. However, none of the developments are in any way contrary to what the Apostles believed and practiced. Now, there are some modern innovations that are not consistent with Apostolic Teaching. Sola Scriptura is an example of this.

Mary was not assumed until most of the NT was already written. But all the Marian doctrines can be found in scripture, at least in seed form. Our understanding of the One Divine Deposit of Faith has improved over the years. An example of that is the concept of the Trinity, a word nowhere found in the NT, but entirely consistent with what has been written, just as are all the teachings of the church.
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justasking rejects the historical reality of the development of doctrine. He believes that it has to be stated and already formulated in scripture; otherwise, it is false.
 
peary said:
justasking rejects the historical reality of the development of doctrine. He believes that it has to be stated and already formulated in scripture; otherwise, it is false.
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The only problem with this… is as he has already stated, most protestants worship on Sunday (and by extension, do not keep the 7th day Sabbath holy)… Which is itself not able to be proved by scripture. If it is able to be proved without personal interpretation or other sources than the Bible, I’d love to see it.

So apparently, most Protestant church’s are in defiance of Scripture.

On the other hand, as a Catholic, it can easily be shown from the Catechism right here: scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s1c2a1.htm#1166
 
Good point. Our primary day of worship is Sunday because the Apostles passed that down to us as an oral tradition. There is nothing specific in Scripture that actually switches the day to Sunday, as we see from Submittedjoy’s contributions to this thread.
 
justasking4 said:
No need to go to another country to know what they believe.
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Oh, I was not suggesting you go to find out what they believe. I was suggesting that you go to find out that your assumption that “in this day and age” there is no excuse of ignorance. I think if you go to a Muslim society, you will find that there is a great deal of ignorance about Christianity.
justasking4 said:
Here is what they believe about God:
Belief in One and Only God, constitutes the very foundation of Islam. There is no deity except God. He is indivisible and absolutely transcendent…

This last statement is a direct denial of the Trinity.
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How do you come up with that? By the way, this is the same Abrahamic understanding of God that the Jews have.
justasking4 said:
You might want to read up on this. There is a well defined theology in Islam.

Well, ok, we see it differently. I don’t think it hangs together well.
justasking4;3484484:
You could say the same thing about the Mormon god also. Being close in the concept is still not the same. Its the differences that should tell you that they are not the same thing.
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I did not say that the Mormon understanding is the “same” as the Christian. You are judging others by looking through modern lenses that they did not have when their beliefs were formed. You are saying that ignorance is no excuse, when you yourself have demonstrated on CAF what a gross ignorance you have about Catholicism! Is that the pot calling the kettle black, or what?!
justasking4 said:
Both are permissible. Most protestants would worship on Sunday.
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“Permissible” according to whom? The commandments are quite clear that the Sabbath is on the seventh day of the week (Sat.) If you do not celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday then you are disobedient to the Scripture.
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