Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by jmcrae
And with a good Catholic priest there to help us, and to pray with us, it is so much the better.

Lampo
The ol’ binding and loosing in action!

Do you need a priest to be forgiven i.e. absolved of your sins?

 

[justasking4]

There is One Divine Deposit of Faith. We find this in the Holy Traditions, and in Holy Writings.

Does any roman catholic know all of it?

 

[jmcrae]

Maybe… but unnecessary…
Jesus isn’t hard of hearing!
He can hear our prayers of contrition and repentence
(which is what confession is) and relay the message to the Father just as well as any priest can.

I have absolutely no doubt that this is true. HOWEVER, I am the one who is “hard of hearing,” and when Jesus uses the priest to amplify His voice, then I can hear what He has to say - the advice, the penance, and the words of forgiveness, that otherwise I might miss, if I try to do it all by myself.

How do I know that it is Jesus speaking to me through the priest, and not just the priest making stuff up?

You’re going to think I’m crazy …

This has been confirmed to me by Christ Himself, on two different occasions. Sometimes, and I don’t know why or how, I find myself able to hear Jesus, just as plain as I hear the cars outside my window.

One time, about two weeks or so after I had been receiving into the Church, I was standing in the line up for Confessions, and suddenly, Jesus was speaking to me and telling me what sins I needed to confess. I said, “Hey, hang on a second. If I’m talking to you right now, how come I still have to go to Confession?” He said, “So that you may learn to love one another as I have loved you.” And then He was gone, and then I went to Confession, and I had a really good Confession, because I said exactly what my Lord had told me to say.

Another time was a few years later (the summer before last; I was getting ready to go on a trip somewhere), when I was sitting in the pew and waiting for my turn (different parish, this time), and I was going over in my mind what I wanted to confess, and then Jesus started talking to me, and giving me advice, etc., and then at the end of it suddenly was gone. I wasn’t sure if I was hallucinating or what, so I went in to the Confessional and I made my Confession, and the priest gave me the exact same advice, word for word, that Jesus had already given me during my preparation period. Which showed me that, indeed, the priest is really in persona Christi, just like the Church promises us.

But I believed it before I had these experiences, and the reason I believed it is because the Church that Jesus founded teaches that it is so.

 

[jmcrae]

Do you need a priest to be forgiven i.e. absolved of your sins?

Mortal sins, yes, because mortal sins cut off our ability to communicate directly with God.

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Do you need a priest to be forgiven i.e. absolved of your sins?

jmcrae
Mortal sins, yes, because mortal sins cut off our ability to communicate directly with God.

If God can forgive a venial sin without a priest why can’t He do the same for a mortal sin?

 

[jmcrae]

If God can forgive a venial sin without a priest why can’t He do the same for a mortal sin?

Because with venial sin, we haven’t killed our souls, and cut off our ability to communicate with God directly - so we retain the ability to communicate with God directly.

But when you kill your soul, you have to go to Confession so that Jesus can use the priest to raise you up back to spiritual life again.

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
If God can forgive a venial sin without a priest why can’t He do the same for a mortal sin?

mcrae
Because with venial sin, we haven’t killed our souls, and cut off our ability to communicate with God directly - so we retain the ability to communicate with God directly.

But when you kill your soul, you have to go to Confession so that Jesus can use the priest to raise you up back to spiritual life again.

When David committed adultery did David go to a priest to be forgiven?

 

[guanophore]

Does any roman catholic know all of it?

This is an example of that intractible bigotry I was telling you about, ja4. How many time have I told you that the Roman Rite is only one of 23 Catholic Rites? Yet you continue to use the word “Roman”. It comes across as though you are doing it just to be insulting.

No, I think there are not many Catholics that know “all” there is to know about our faith.

If God can forgive a venial sin without a priest why can’t He do the same for a mortal sin?

Jesus can forgive sins however He wants, with whomever He pleases. He is not bound by the Sacrament. He gave the Sacrament to us as an avenue for grace. We see the reason for this clearly in His 'Word - “confess your sins to one another, that you may be healed”.

When David committed adultery did David go to a priest to be forgiven?

David was under the Old Covenant, and it was not set up to operate that way. However, God did send the Prophet to David, to show him his sin.

 

[jmcrae]

When David committed adultery did David go to a priest to be forgiven?

He got the words of forgiveness (and his penance) from the prophet Nathan, and he offered sacrifices to atone for his sins. We know that it was the priests who killed the sacrifices on his behalf, because that was part of the Law that he as King was sworn to uphold.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3447506]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Does any roman catholic know all of it?

guanophore
This is an example of that intractible bigotry I was telling you about, ja4.

Nonsense—:tsktsk:

How many time have I told you that the Roman Rite is only one of 23 Catholic Rites? Yet you continue to use the word “Roman”. It comes across as though you are doing it just to be insulting.

You must be having a bad hair day… roman catholic is an appropiate term for most of our discussions…

No, I think there are not many Catholics that know “all” there is to know about our faith.

It would seem then that many may be sinning in ignorance since they don’t know all the fulness of the truth. Correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
If God can forgive a venial sin without a priest why can’t He do the same for a mortal sin?

guanophore
Jesus can forgive sins however He wants, with whomever He pleases. He is not bound by the Sacrament. He gave the Sacrament to us as an avenue for grace. We see the reason for this clearly in His 'Word - “confess your sins to one another, that you may be healed”.

What are the qualifications of the one who we are to confess our sins to in James 5:16?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
When David committed adultery did David go to a priest to be forgiven?
guanophore
David was under the Old Covenant, and it was not set up to operate that way. However, God did send the Prophet to David, to show him his sin.

Davide was forgiven without a priest though. So the idea of needing a priest is not necessary nor required to be forgiven by God.

 

[sodak]

What are the qualifications of the one who we are to confess our sins to in James 5:16?

Why don’t you ask the Church that wrote the Bible? They have the definitive word, according to Christ.

Davide was forgiven without a priest though. So the idea of needing a priest is not necessary nor required to be forgiven by God.

Wrong. See answer above.

 

[guanophore]

Nonsense—:tsktsk:

You must be having a bad hair day… roman catholic is an appropiate term for most of our discussions…

No, it is really not, ja4. Most of the issues that you find fault with are beliefs held throughout the Apostolic faiths. On the other hand, you specifically target “Rome” and “Romans” as you erroneously believe that to be the source of the doctrines, when it is not.

It would seem then that many may be sinning in ignorance since they don’t know all the fulness of the truth. Correct?

I would like to believe that, but I think that somewhat the opposite is true. I think the majority of “catholics” living in sin are quite clear on the Church Teachings, and choose not to follow them. One cannot commit a mortal sin without knowledge. Sins done in ignorance (like calling things “Roman” that are not) are not nearly as serious as sins done purposefully (calling things “Roman” that are not in order to aggravate one’s neighbor).

What are the qualifications of the one who we are to confess our sins to in James 5:16?

The one’s that are called upon to come are the elders of the Church (presbyters). This is where the English word “priest” comes from. However, for those of Apostolic faiths, the preference is to confess sins to those who have been empowered to forgive them. Personally, I think it is a good idea to be able to confess your sins to anyone, but it is most efficacious to do so with the individual who is able to forgive them in the person of Christ. Furthermore, there are some sins that most people would prefer the vow of the confessional, so as to be able to trust the confessor.

Davide was forgiven without a priest though. So the idea of needing a priest is not necessary nor required to be forgiven by God.

The ritual actions required under the old covenant were different than they are under the new. I agree, God does not need a priest. He gave the priest for our benefit, not HIs.

 

[justasking4]

sodak;3447580]
Originally Posted by justasking4
What are the qualifications of the one who we are to confess our sins to in James 5:16?

sodak
Why don’t you ask the Church that wrote the Bible? They have the definitive word, according to Christ.

I am. Are you and other catholics the roman catholic church?

justasking4
Davide was forgiven without a priest though. So the idea of needing a priest is not necessary nor required to be forgiven by God.

sodak
Wrong. See answer above.

I looked but did not see it. What is the post #?

 

[sodak]

I’ll copy and paste it for you one more time.

Why don’t you ask the Church that wrote the Bible? They have the definitive word, according to Christ.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

These are all Catholic rites under the supervision of the Roman Pontiff:

Western Rites and Churches

ROMAN or Latin Rite

Roman: 1969 Missale Romanum

Missal of 1962 (Tridentine Mass)

Anglican Use: Anglican forms, doctrinally corrected. In use since the 1980s

Mozarabic: Rite of the Iberian peninsula; Rite of the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Toledo, Spain and six other parishes. Known from at least the 6th century.

Ambrosian: Rite of the Archdiocese of Milan, Italy

Bragan: Rite of the Archdiocese of Braga, the Primatial See of Portugal.

Dominican: Rite of the Order of Friars Preacher

Carmelite: Rite of the Order of Carmel

Carthusian: Rite of the Carthusian Order

Eastern Rites and Churches

ANTIOCHIAN

West Syriac

Maronite: Never seperated from Rome; Maronite Patriarch of Antioch

Syriac: Returned to Rome in 1781; Syriac Patriarch of Antioch

Malankarese: Returned to Rome in 1930

East Syriac

Chaldean: Returned to Rome in 1692; Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans

Syro-Malabarese: Returned to Rome in the 16th century

BYZANTINE

Armenian: either it’s own rite or and older version of the Byzantine rite; returned to Rome at the time of the Crusades; Patriarch of Cilicia of the Armenians

Byzantine

Albanian: Returned to Rome in 1628

Belarussion/Byelorussion: Returned to Rome in the 17th century

Bulgarian: Returned to Rome in 1861

Czech: Organized in 1996

Krizevci: Returned to Rome in 1611

Greek: Returned to Rome in 1829

Hungarian: Descendants of Ruthenians who returned to Rome in 1646

Italo-Albanian: Never separated from Rome

Melkite: Returned to Rome at the end of the Crusades; Melkite Greek Patriarch of Damascus

Romanian: Returned to Rome in 1697

Russian: Returned to from in 1905

Ruthenian: Returned to Rome in 1596 and 1646

Slovak:

Ukrainian: Returned to Rome at 1595; Patriarch or Metropolitan of Lviv

ALEXANDRIAN

Coptic: Returned to Rome in 1741: Patriarch of Alexandria

Ethiopian/Abyssinian: Returned to Rome in 1846

 

[justasking4]

These are all Catholic rites under the supervision of the Roman Pontiff:

Western Rites and Churches

ROMAN or Latin Rite

Roman: 1969 Missale Romanum

Missal of 1962 (Tridentine Mass)

Anglican Use: Anglican forms, doctrinally corrected. In use since the 1980s

Mozarabic: Rite of the Iberian peninsula; Rite of the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Toledo, Spain and six other parishes. Known from at least the 6th century.

Ambrosian: Rite of the Archdiocese of Milan, Italy

Bragan: Rite of the Archdiocese of Braga, the Primatial See of Portugal.

Dominican: Rite of the Order of Friars Preacher

Carmelite: Rite of the Order of Carmel

Carthusian: Rite of the Carthusian Order

Eastern Rites and Churches

ANTIOCHIAN

West Syriac

Maronite: Never seperated from Rome; Maronite Patriarch of Antioch

Syriac: Returned to Rome in 1781; Syriac Patriarch of Antioch

Malankarese: Returned to Rome in 1930

East Syriac

Chaldean: Returned to Rome in 1692; Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans

Syro-Malabarese: Returned to Rome in the 16th century

BYZANTINE

Armenian: either it’s own rite or and older version of the Byzantine rite; returned to Rome at the time of the Crusades; Patriarch of Cilicia of the Armenians

Byzantine

Albanian: Returned to Rome in 1628

Belarussion/Byelorussion: Returned to Rome in the 17th century

Bulgarian: Returned to Rome in 1861

Czech: Organized in 1996

Krizevci: Returned to Rome in 1611

Greek: Returned to Rome in 1829

Hungarian: Descendants of Ruthenians who returned to Rome in 1646

Italo-Albanian: Never separated from Rome

Melkite: Returned to Rome at the end of the Crusades; Melkite Greek Patriarch of Damascus

Romanian: Returned to Rome in 1697

Russian: Returned to from in 1905

Ruthenian: Returned to Rome in 1596 and 1646

Slovak:

Ukrainian: Returned to Rome at 1595; Patriarch or Metropolitan of Lviv

ALEXANDRIAN

Coptic: Returned to Rome in 1741: Patriarch of Alexandria

Ethiopian/Abyssinian: Returned to Rome in 1846

Thanks for the list. Can you give me a couple of examples from this list in how they may differ?

 

[Lampo]

Nonsense—:tsktsk:

Then quit calling him “Roman Catholic.” He has told you numerous times that title doesn’t apply to him.

You must be having a bad hair day… roman catholic is an appropiate term for most of our discussions…

Not if he’s not a Roman Catholic. Geesh!

Davide was forgiven without a priest though. So the idea of needing a priest is not necessary nor required to be forgiven by God.

What exactly do you think binding and loosing means? You must think it ended with the death of the last Apostle.

 

[Lampo]

Thanks for the list. Can you give me a couple of examples from this list in how they may differ?

It would probably be easier to show you how they don’t differ since there is 100% unity in doctrines/dogmas of the Catholic Church.

 

[Lampo]

Do you need a priest to be forgiven i.e. absolved of your sins?

Well, the quick answer is “yes” because that’s the way God wants us to do it. In James 5:16, God, through Sacred Scripture, commands us to “confess our sins to one another.” Notice, Scripture does not say confess your sins straight to God and only to God…it says confess your sins to one another.

In Matthew, chapter 9, verse 6, Jesus tells us that He was given authority on earth to forgive sins. And then Scripture proceeds to tell us, in verse 8, that this authority was given to “men”…plural.

In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? “Jesus said to them, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’” How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we just saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him…so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins. And, just in case they didn’t get it, verses 22-23 say this, “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’”

Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn’t expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?

The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another. It also tells us that God gave men the authority on Earth to forgive sins. Jesus sends out His disciples with the authority on earth to forgive sins. When Catholics confess our sins to a priest, we are simply following the plan laid down by Jesus Christ. He forgives sins through the priest…it is God’s power, but He exercises that power through the ministry of the priest.

 

[jmcrae]

I am. Are you and other catholics the roman catholic church?

First, I think Guonophore is a Byzantine Catholic; not Roman, and second, the Catholic Church is the union of the Christian faithful under one head. It’s marks are that it is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. The Church is one because all her members agree in one faith, share in the same Sacrifice and Sacraments, and are united under one head. She is holy because she teaches a holy doctrine, offers her members the means to become holy, and is distinguished by a great company of holy men and women who are known to us collectively as Saints. The word Catholic means universal; the Catholic Church is a culture unto itself, separate from all man-made cultures, and able to be integrated into any human culture without damage to herself. The Church is apostolic in that her doctrines and traditions come down through the ages from the Apostles, and also because through the unbroken succession of her pastors, she derives her priestly orders, her mission, and her authority from the Apostles.

No individual or small group of individuals, apart from the Pope and members of the Magisterium, can claim to represent the Church.

With regard to the answer to the question about whether David needed a priest to forgive his sins:

I looked but did not see it. What is the post #?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3447521&postcount=546