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guanophore
Guest
Welcome to CAF! You really don’t get it, if you think the Body of Christ is an “industry”.!
Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?
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jmcrae
Guest
There is only one God; there is no other God for them to worship, so of course we are all worshipping the same God - as I once heard it said, they worship Him in their way, and we worship Him in His way.
By the way, I have just concluded my Easter Triduum, and I have to say that I am glad all over again that I became a Catholic seven years ago - every year it gets more and more beautiful, the more I understand what is going on.
I finally “got” the “pillar of fire” and “pillar of smoke” references - the Deacon actually had to point to them, and then (interiorly, only - I didn’t disturb the proceedings) I shouted “AHA!! Now I get it!!” :extrahappy:
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peary
Guest
jmcrae - what were the references? I’m a little nebulous on this myself. Thanks!I finally “got” the “pillar of fire” and “pillar of smoke” references - the Deacon actually had to point to them, and then (interiorly, only - I didn’t disturb the proceedings) I shouted “AHA!! Now I get it!!” :extrahappy:
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justasking4
Guest
Lets take a look at the Mormon god and see if it is the same God you worship:
The Mormon church teaches that “God was once a man who achieved godhood”.
This doctrine, “eternal progression” is central to Mormonism, as stated in one of their frequently-used quotes:
• “As man is, God once was: as God is, man may be” (Lorenzo Snow, Millenial Star, vol.54).
Mormonism
• A “council of the Gods” created the world. “In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it … In all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, pp. 308, 474).
If you know the scriptures teaching on the doctrine of God it doesn’t come even close to saying this kind of thing.
Do you think that there is such a thing as a “false god” and that men are forbidden by the true God to worship it?
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justasking4
Guest
If you were to say this to a Muslium he would not agree. He would say to you that God could not and would not become a man and that what you believe about this is a sin. They deny that Christ was God and that He died for the sins of world. In I John 4:1-3 warns us about this when he writes:
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
Any belief system that rejects Christ is of the anti Christ and is to be rejected as a false belief system.
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peary
Guest
**The God revealed to us never said that there were no other gods; He revealed that “I AM the Lord Your God, and you shall have no other gods before Me” because He is the Creator of all. I would say that the so-called ‘gods’ worshipped in pagan religions of the past (and even today) are actually demons and fallen angels who have deceived those into thinking that they are actually equal to the Creator.
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jmcrae
Guest
The Easter candle and the incense pot represent the Pillar of Fire and Pillar of Smoke that led the Israelites out of Egypt.
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Aramis
Guest
Even married clerics take a vow of celibacy. It has a different meaning than most presume: It functionally means no longer being able to validly pursue new marriage.
For example, my father, a Roman Rite Deacon, is married, and has been since before his ordination by some 13 years… but, from that day, 26 years ago, he has known that, no matter what, he may not again contract marriage for himself should my mother pass on before him.
The term is often (and slightly inaccurately) used to refer to non-married clerics as opposed to married clerics. No Catholic cleric may validly marry once ordained, unless relieved of the clerical state by the pope. (And that does happen in rare cases… I know three: one of them a cousin, the priest who baptised me; one, a Domincan friar; the third, a Deacon who was widowed.)
It is written of being this way as a Tradition since the 3rd century…
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peary
Guest
Wow! I didn’t know that…thanks for the insight!The Easter candle and the incense pot represent the Pillar of Fire and Pillar of Smoke that led the Israelites out of Egypt.
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Aramis
Guest
Actually, there are 6 Rites, 23 churches. And two of the 23 churches maintain an exclusively unmarried priesthood. (One of the Syriac rite churches, but I forget which, and the Latin Church.)
ALL 23 churches have their own Tradition which includes unmarried clerics.
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justasking4
Guest
I thought the catholic church was one unified whole in which the whole church believed the same thing. These statements are making me think otherwise…its confusing me—
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jmcrae
Guest
Why are they making you think otherwise? All these races, languages, and nations all believing the same doctrines and following the same moral principles - I’m sure it’s mindblowing compared to what you’re used to, but how would it make you doubt that we all believe the same things?I thought the catholic church was one unified whole in which the whole church believed the same thing. These statements are making me think otherwise…its confusing me—
The different Rites are just racial, linguistic, and cultural differences; they aren’t differences in belief.
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justasking4
Guest
When people bring up these different rites that makes me think there are differences and not some completely unified whole as i have been led to believe.jmcrae;3465766]Why are they making you think otherwise? All these races, languages, and nations all believing the same doctrines and following the same moral principles - I’m sure it’s mindblowing compared to what you’re used to, but how would it make you doubt that we all believe the same things?
Do all these different rites have the same beliefs about the pope, celibacy, the catechism, Mary and treasury of merit and what a mortal sin is?
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guanophore
Guest
I do, but in the case of most Mormons, I think they have an incomplete revelation of the One True God.
I would not expect him to do so. He does not have the fullness of revelation.
every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
Any belief system that rejects Christ is of the anti Christ and is to be rejected as a false belief system.
Oh, they “accept” Jesus. They consider Him a great prophet. Their lack of understanding of His nature changes nothing. They still cling to the God of Abraham (or at least, what they understand of Him).
The differences are not doctrinal. They are in language, clothing, culture, and disciplines.I thought the catholic church was one unified whole in which the whole church believed the same thing. These statements are making me think otherwise…its confusing me—
All are in union with the Bishop of Rome in doctrine. Some cultures use different language to express the doctrines. Transubstantiation, for example, is a Western concept that the Eastern churches, not following Thomism, would not use.
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Lampo
Guest
So currently, you do understand the Catholic Church is a unified whole in matters of dogma and doctrine. Very good.
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justasking4
Guest
Actually the other way.
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guanophore
Guest
ja4 has not yet been able to discern the difference between the Church, and the fallible earthly persons who are members of Her.
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jmcrae
Guest
I doubt anyone could ever “lead you to believe” anything that you hadn’t already come up with all by yourself - people have explained things over and over to you, and you have never yet gotten past your original preconceptions.
Yes, they do.
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Aramis
Guest
The Holy Catholic Church is a union of 23 semi-autonomous churches, united in the Grand Synod and subject to the pope, but below that, separate and varied.I thought the catholic church was one unified whole in which the whole church believed the same thing. These statements are making me think otherwise…its confusing me—
Of the six rites, they are those of Rome, Byzantium, Alexandria, Antioch, Chaldea, ancient Armenia. Each has different expressions of the whole liturgical form, but the same truths.
The Eastern Orthodox share the Byzantine Rite with both the Church that never left union and those who came back into union. The Russian Orthodox are a Byzantine Right Autcephalous Church. The Russian Catholic Church is a semi-autonomous church (currently without hierarchs) which is of the same rite, traditions, and until the 19th century, was part of the Russian Orthodox church.
Of the Churches: each is comprised of worshipers of a single and specific rite, and several may be the same right.
The Ukrainian and Ruthenian churches are very nearly identical in practices, liturgy, etc. But each made it’s rejoinder to the Catholic Church at a diferent time, while the Italo-Albanians never left union. Each is permitted its own hierarchs (bishops), presbyters (priests), deacons, traditions, doctrine, theology, vestment, liturgical development. Each participates in the Synods and councils of the Holy Catholic Church, but not those specific to the Latin Church. And each may hold its own internal councils, as well.
They believe the same dogma, that defined as being required of all in the Catholic Church (sometimes with very different explanations of them).
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peary
Guest
**I think you just confused him more!:**eek:
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