Is Jesus God?

[jcrichton]

Wonderful information, what about the rest that I Quoted, Father into yhour hands I commend my spirit, He said to pray to the Father, Our Father not Our Jesus, Thruogh me I can do nothing it is through the Father that I have been given power,Father if it be your will let this cup pass from me, not my will but thy will be done, Father I have glorified you on earth now glorify me in heaven,for the Father is greater than I,have you read these? All power to judge has been given to the Father,

May the Holy Spirit revel the truth to you and me.

The Jehovah Witnessess use your brand of interpretation; they reject all Scripture that demonstrate that Jesus is God.

I pray that the Holy Spirit enlighten your mind and heart so that you may allow the Holy Scriptures to reveal the Truth:

Jesus and the Father are One
8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9Jesus answered: "Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. (St. John 14:9-11)

Jesus is the Only Lord
5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Jesus is the Only means to Salvation
11He is " ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.[a]’** 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:11-12)

Jesus is God
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. (Titus 2:11-14)

Conversely, there are passages that suggest that Jesus or the Holy Spirit have greater power or are in control rather than Yahweh God, the Father (this, of course, is only a perception):

1Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.” (Apocalypse 5:1-5)

16Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it. (Apocalypse 2:16-17)

7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ (Hebrews 3:7-11)

Thank God for Catholic theology that explains to us that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are the three Divine Persons of the Holy Trinity: the Scriptures do not contradict themselves: One God: Revealed as three distict Divine Persons.

newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

Maran atha!

Angel**

 

[jcrichton]

I didn’t say that Jesus was God the Father, what i’m trying to understand is scripture and the fact that the creed says that the Father and Son are one, yet Jesus refer’s to the Father seperately, I don’t mean to cause you grief, only seeking truth.

Grace and Peace.

…perhaps your issue has more to do with Faith than anything else–you accept the Teachings of the Church, yet you are not able to reconcile the theology of the Holy Trinity…

This is much a matter of Faith as understanding… Thomas was forced to see the light as he professed: “My Lord, and my God.”

If you want to study the Holy Scriptures in-depth I can PM you a generous quantity of passages to study on the Holy Trinity.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Lainey63]

Where the Father is so there is also the Son…isn’t that said somewhere in the Bible. Didn’t Jesus say to his apostles if you know Me then you know the Father (I’m going off of memory here…I just woke up).

 

[jcrichton]

Where the Father is so there is also the Son…isn’t that said somewhere in the Bible.

Hi, Lainey!

…I do not recall a passage worded in the exact form as above (except when Jesus states that when two or three are gathered in His Name there He will also be)… but there are many who are quite similar, here are some of them:

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:23
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

2 John 1:9
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

Didn’t Jesus say to his apostles if you know Me then you know the Father (I’m going off of memory here…I just woke up).

Yes, in St. John 14:9-11.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[blackst]

Hi, Lainey!

…I do not recall a passage worded in the exact form as above (except when Jesus states that when two or three are gathered in His Name there He will also be)… but there are many who are quite similar, here are some of them:

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:23
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
2 John 1:9
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

Yes, in St. John 14:9-11.

Maran atha!

Angel

Now Now Now Misquoting scripture, I wouldn’t have belived it.
1 John 5:1 Says: Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God …

Who is my brother and my sister and mother, those who do the will of my Father.

 

[jcrichton]

Now Now Now Misquoting scripture, I wouldn’t have belived it.
1 John 5:1 Says: Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God …

Who is my brother and my sister and mother, those who do the will of my Father.

Misquoting Scripture?

Are you aware that there are a great number of different Bible versions?

Every single quote I made is found (copied and pasted) at BibleGateway–though not a Catholic cite it has an excellent search engine on twenty or so on-line Bibles; since the NIV uses modern language I’ve chosen it as my default search Bible; when I have enough time I quote from the Vatican’s site or transcribe from my Jerusalem or NJB.

Here’s the address:

biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=father%20son&version1=31&searchtype=all&bookset=9

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[blackst]

Thanks for the address, I us uscccb, as you are probably aware I am estranged from my daughter, thy will be done, she and her family are in my prayers, maybe we should check the vulgate.

I put you on my buddy list because you show wisdom, thanks for your posts, especially the one about the Holy Spirit not Revealing truth for the curious.

Gods Grace and Peace to you.

 

[jcrichton]

Thanks for the address, I us uscccb, as you are probably aware I am estranged from my daughter, thy will be done, she and her family are in my prayers, maybe we should check the vulgate.

I put you on my buddy list because you show wisdom, thanks for your posts, especially the one about the Holy Spirit not Revealing truth for the curious.

Gods Grace and Peace to you.

Thank you for your kind words!

I will keep you and your daughter in my prayers–sometimes, that is the best and only tool that is afforded us… keep loving them and praying for them, that is your duty in the Lord!

May the Holy Spirit continue to strengthen and guide you!

…on 1st St. John 5:1 here’s the Jerusalem Bible:

Whoever believe that Jesus is the Christ
has been begotten by God;
and whoever loves the Father the begot him
loves the child whom he begets.

The New Jerusalem Bible:

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ
is a child of God,
and whoever loves the father
loves the son.

Though the wording is a little difference, the content (meaning) is the same: only those begotten by God Believe that Jesus is the Messiah and to Love the Father one must also Love the Son.

I do not have the Vulgate but I can search the web for it, if you like.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Ruthie]

I have the Vulgate:

omnis qui credit quoniam Iesus est Christus ex Deo natus est et omnis qui diligit eum qui genuit diligit eum qui natus est ex eo 1 John 5:1 (Vulgate)

Omnis = all, every.

Are you using the NKJV? The KJV has “whosoever”, which means the same as omnis. Someone trying to update the language without changing it too much might say “whoever,” but that is wrong.

God bless you,

Ruthie

 

[jcrichton]

I have the Vulgate:

Omnis = all, every.

Are you using the NKJV? The KJV has “whosoever”, which means the same as omnis. Someone trying to update the language without changing it too much might say “whoever,” but that is wrong.

God bless you,

Ruthie

Hi, Ruthie!

Thanks for the assitance… the Vulgate is completely foreign to me so I appreciate your offering…

I think that much of the problem lies in what version of Scriptures we are most familiar with… I mean, unless the meaning is altered “all,” “every,” “whosoever,” or “whoever” seem to have the same value, at least it does for me; the determining factor (believing Jesus Christ is the begotten Son of God) is not changed by any of the versions/translations which represent the term “omnis.”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[blackst]

I have the Vulgate:

Omnis = all, every.

Are you using the NKJV? The KJV has “whosoever”, which means the same as omnis. Someone trying to update the language without changing it too much might say “whoever,” but that is wrong.

God bless you,

Ruthie

The septuigant is what I mean’t to say, the different version can say alot, Did Jesus mean Hate your Mother and Father and yourself or is it a bad translation?

Peace and Grace

 

[blackst]

Thank you for your kind words!

I will keep you and your daughter in my prayers–sometimes, that is the best and only tool that is afforded us… keep loving them and praying for them, that is your duty in the Lord!

May the Holy Spirit continue to strengthen and guide you!

…on 1st St. John 5:1 here’s the Jerusalem Bible:

Whoever believe that Jesus is the Christ
has been begotten by God;
and whoever loves the Father the begot him
loves the child whom he begets.

The New Jerusalem Bible:

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ
is a child of God,
and whoever loves the father
loves the son.

Though the wording is a little difference, the content (meaning) is the same: only those begotten by God Believe that Jesus is the Messiah and to Love the Father one must also Love the Son.

I do not have the Vulgate but I can search the web for it, if you like.

Maran atha!

Angel

Thank you for offering to search for the vulgate, you are kind, I was thinking of the septuigant, have you heard of it, it’s the original greek text the church used, I don’t think it’s available, or even exists, how did you learn so much scripture?

I know what it said in scripture about hating the world, but it also says hate your mother and father and yourself, but to love your enemies, if you don’t have love for yourself how can you love another?

Grace and Peace

 

[jcrichton]

The septuigant is what I mean’t to say, the different version can say alot, Did Jesus mean Hate your Mother and Father and yourself or is it a bad translation?

Peace and Grace

…my JB (Spanish) has the exact vocabulary (si no odia = if you do not hate); I believe that it has something to do with the Aramaic/Hebrew language.

This same language is found when Scripture speak about Jacob and Esau (I loved Jocab and hate Esau); how could Yahweh God have a person even as he/she is conceived?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Thank you for offering to search for the vulgate, you are kind, I was thinking of the septuigant, have you heard of it, it’s the original greek text the church used, I don’t think it’s available, or even exists, how did you learn so much scripture?

I am only generally familiar with these terms; however, I know that there are multiple language Bibles out there (I am not aware of any Catholic ones) that offer side-by-side text (Greek/Hebrew/English).

I know what it said in scripture about hating the world, but it also says hate your mother and father and yourself, but to love your enemies, if you don’t have love for yourself how can you love another?

I think that there are shades of value on these two passages… Scripture tells us that to be a friend to the world is to be an enemy to God… clearly, the world rejects God’s Authority so it cannot please God; rather, it is diametrically opposite to God’s Will–ergo, Christ’s disciples cannot love the world.

Jesus warns that we must hate ourselves, father, mother, wife, children… this is the exact mandate of the first Commandment: Love Yahweh God above everything else with all your heart, might, and mind (or something to that effect). Either term means that we must place God above all else; Jesus’ Command is stressing the requirement: if we do not place everything/everyone as secondary to God, our loyalty will be divided and at times completely compromised as we will chose ourselves instead of God.

We are Commanded by Christ to love our neighbors as ourselves… this clearly demonstrate that Love is important in the life of a Christian; we must love others as ourselves; yet, loving God above all else is the only way that we can truly Love, this is the only trickle-down economy that truly works!

Finally, loving our enemies demonstrates that we truly are God’s children since we obey Him beyond our personal ego and understanding (since we are in complete compliance with the first Commandment); coincidentally, by loving our enemies we can preach the Gospel to them without uttering a single word… and we gain God’s Love and Blessing to boot!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

…how did you learn so much scripture?

Grace and Peace

…sorry for the delayed response…

I was challenged to read the complete Bible… soon I became aware of anti-Catholic sentiments amongst non-Catholic Christians and I accepted other challenges ("…show me from Scriptures…" “…Catholics do not read the Bible…” “…the Church forbids Catholics from reading/interpreting the Bible…” and so on…); I found that the more I studied the Sacred Scritpures the more I would come across people who either were barely familiar with the Bible or were harboring a great number of misconceptions about the Holy Scriptures and the Catholic Church…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[codebilly]

If he is the Alpha and the Omega the begining and the end then why does he tell people to Pray to the Father and why does he say through himself he can do nothing, only what the Father allows, and he siad Abba Father why have you forsaken me why would he say into your hands I commend my spirit, Yes I’ve heard of the trinity and the mystery of God, but many people claim Jesus and a prophet, who is healing the hindu, the muslim, the buddist, the atheist when they get sick?

This is a very important question. It is important for Christians and Catholics to understand (as much as humanly possible) the identity of Jesus as second person of the Godhead, and we should be able to explain as best as possible to non believers.

*“Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness; and found human in appearance, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross. *” — Phil. 2:6-8

The above tells us that Jesus is God who renounces His position as God. He is the Servitor Lord who strips Himself of everything that the Father owns. Though He owns all the Father’s possessions, he abandons all to give it back to the Father, and will take nothing for Himself. Because He longingly pines that each creature know His Father as He knows Him, He can do nothing but deliver Himself to all, as His love for each person burns without ceasing in His Heart.

Therefore, He is the embodiment of Compassion, the Incarnation of Mercy in His surrender of Himself on the Cross, serving the Father, and All creation, and with His heart torn open wide, He opens the doorway to salvation for all those who wish to enter.

All who entire this doorway therefore, are “baptized into His death”, submersed in His self sacrifice, saturated and lost in His Love, and made presentable to the Father.

There is no way to the Father, but by the Son.

 

[blackst]

This is a very important question. It is important for Christians and Catholics to understand (as much as humanly possible) the identity of Jesus as second person of the Godhead, and we should be able to explain as best as possible to non believers.

*“Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness; and found human in appearance, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross. *” — Phil. 2:6-8

The above tells us that Jesus is God who renounces His position as God. He is the Servitor Lord who strips Himself of everything that the Father owns. Though He owns all the Father’s possessions, he abandons all to give it back to the Father, and will take nothing for Himself. Because He longingly pines that each creature know His Father as He knows Him, He can do nothing but deliver Himself to all, as His love for each person burns without ceasing in His Heart.

Therefore, He is the embodiment of Compassion, the Incarnation of Mercy in His surrender of Himself on the Cross, serving the Father, and All creation, and with His heart torn open wide, He opens the doorway to salvation for all those who wish to enter.

All who entire this doorway therefore, are “baptized into His death”, submersed in His self sacrifice, saturated and lost in His Love, and made presentable to the Father.

There is no way to the Father, but by the Son.

Thank you for you response, it makes me think, of Jesus saying i have come to bring judgement into the world and i have come not to bring judgement into the world in the Gospel of John, Jesus also said do not judge, but then judged the pharishees and the apostles, and the money changers and also he said to forgove 70*7 then he went on to say in Matthew, if a person dosn’t listen to you have nothing else to do with him, There seems to be a lot of contraditiction in the Scripture. It also says many will pour over scripture hoping to find salvation, we are not people of the book but people of the spirit, right?

Gods Grace and Peace to You.
Rodney

 

[blackst]

This is a very important question. It is important for Christians and Catholics to understand (as much as humanly possible) the identity of Jesus as second person of the Godhead, and we should be able to explain as best as possible to non believers.

*“Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness; and found human in appearance, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross. *” — Phil. 2:6-8

The above tells us that Jesus is God who renounces His position as God.

If he renouced his Godship then why did he peform miracles?
I also said who is healing the buddist, muslim, hindu, atheist, jew,
and apostate?

He is the Servitor Lord who strips Himself of everything that the Father owns. Though He owns all the Father’s possessions, he abandons all to give it back to the Father, and will take nothing for Himself. Because He longingly pines that each creature know His Father as He knows Him, He can do nothing but deliver Himself to all, as His love for each person burns without ceasing in His Heart.

Therefore, He is the embodiment of Compassion, the Incarnation of Mercy in His surrender of Himself on the Cross, serving the Father, and All creation, and with His heart torn open wide, He opens the doorway to salvation for all those who wish to enter.

All who entire this doorway therefore, are “baptized into His death”, submersed in His self sacrifice, saturated and lost in His Love, and made presentable to the Father.

There is no way to the Father, but by the Son.

What about the jew who claim to have a relationship with the father or the muslim who claim the same God as the jews?

What about the catholic who thinks they have a license to sin because of confession, who sin repeatedly and then return without remorse or true repentenence.

Grace and Peace
Rodney

 

[codebilly]

If he renouced his Godship then why did he peform miracles?

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. - John 14:10

I also said who is healing the buddist, muslim, hindu, atheist, jew, and apostate? What about the jew who claim to have a relationship with the father or the muslim who claim the same God as the jews?

I assume the above questions are in reference to my quoting “No way to the Father but by the Son”. What do you think “No way to the Father but by the Son” really means. Does Jesus say, “no way to the Father except by those who know of my life in Israel and my passion, death and resurrection?” No. He does not say this.

Jesus says :* “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one goes to the Father except through me” *- John 14:6

Where is Jesus, that we can go through Him to the Father? Does Jesus mean He is the gate of heaven? Does Jesus need pious, holy Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Jew, need to recognize Him by rational logic, or by purity of heart?

Which Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Jew, atheist, apostate? One that is a 5 year old child, faithfully following instructions of his parents?

What about the catholic who thinks they have a license to sin because of confession, who sin repeatedly and then return without remorse or true repentenence.

Anyone who considers they have a “license to sin”, has a demon. They need prayer and the special mercy to “find themselves eating pigs food”. -

After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. – Luke 15:14-15

 

[jcrichton]

Thank you for you response, it makes me think, of Jesus saying i have come to bring judgement into the world and i have come not to bring judgement into the world in the Gospel of John, Jesus also said do not judge, but then judged the pharishees and the apostles, and the money changers and also he said to forgove 70*7 then he went on to say in Matthew, if a person dosn’t listen to you have nothing else to do with him, There seems to be a lot of contraditiction in the Scripture. It also says many will pour over scripture hoping to find salvation, we are not people of the book but people of the spirit, right?

Gods Grace and Peace to You.
Rodney

Hi, Rodney!

…could you not be guilty of piece meals?

…you come to a banquet and instead of eating a meal you select individual pieces… some of the selection may well go with other things but after a few gastric nudges you disregard your body and continue to sample a la lesafair… rather than truly enjoying the feast you may end up vomiting, suffering from indigestion or heartburn… I could go on…

Stop seeking knowledge and allow the Holy Spirit to grant you wisdom:

9 With you is Wisdom, she who knows your works, she who was present when you made the world; she understands what is pleasing in your eyes and what agrees with your commandments.
10 Despatch her from the holy heavens, send her forth from your throne of glory to help me and to toil with me and teach me what is pleasing to you;
11 since she knows and understands everything she will guide me prudently in my actions and will protect me with her glory.
12 Then all I do will be acceptable, I shall govern your people justly and be worthy of my father’s throne.
13 ‘What human being indeed can know the intentions of God? And who can comprehend the will of the Lord?
14 For the reasoning of mortals is inadequate, our attitudes of mind unstable;
15 for a perishable body presses down the soul, and this tent of clay weighs down the mind with its many cares.
16 It is hard enough for us to work out what is on earth, laborious to know what lies within our reach; who, then, can discover what is in the heavens?
17 And who could ever have known your will, had you not given Wisdom and sent your holy Spirit from above?
18 Thus have the paths of those on earth been straightened and people have been taught what pleases you, and have been saved, by Wisdom.’ (Wisdom 9:9-18–compare with 1 Corinthians 2:6-16)

FYI - Jesus as the Lamb of God did not come into the world to Judge the world but to offer Salvation; yet, as the Lion (Wrath) of Israel He will Judge all on the Judgment Day; Jesus as the Son of man can determine who is worshiping God in Spirit and Truth and He can chastise those who live in error; finally, Jesus established His Church and Commanded that those who refused to separate themselves from unrighteousness be removed from the Community.

Maran atha!

Angel