Is Jesus God?

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Of course! In that sense we are all sons of God.
But in the sense that Jesus was son of God for lack of earthly father, that’s Greek Mythology.

Ben: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
…you are completely at a loss; they have determined that Jesus is equating Himself to God; they desire to kill Him (though they understand that all Israelites are sons/daughters of Yahweh God) because they are fully aware that Jesus is claiming Divine Sonship not the mere subject sonship with which Yahweh allotted Israel (Jacob).

The problem you have is that you refuse to accept Scriptures and prefer to think yourself a linguist separating your “truth” from the Truth:

41 While the Pharisees were gathered round, Jesus put to them this question, 42 ‘What is your opinion about the Christ? Whose son is he?’ They told him, ‘David’s.’ 43 He said to them, 'Then how is it that David, moved by the Spirit, calls him Lord, where he says: 44 The Lord declared to my Lord, take your seat at my right hand, till I have made your enemies your footstool? 45 ‘If David calls him Lord, how then can he be his son?’ 46 No one could think of anything to say in reply, and from that day no one dared to ask him any further questions. (St. Matthew 22:41-46)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
…with me is not so much the anonymity as much as the unreasonableness of some of the posters; they enter a Catholic site with an anti-Christian agenda while simultaneously claiming to be searching for the Truth… regardless of the exchange, they continue to spew their venon almost at every opportunity–both the contempt and the ignorance with which they compose their statements is almost palpable…
So, if I drop in on Carm.org with my anti-real-Christian agenda while simultaneously claiming to be searching for the Truth… 😉
Dealing face to face with people affords us the opportunity to walk away (and they usually do not follow past 10 feet or so)… the net experience is not as forgiving since here they tend to be relentless, prolific, intractable, and suffering from a pit bull mentality!

…on top of that add my personal limitations… I often pray for patience and humility… I think I’m gonna have to tripple the order! :whistle:

Maran atha!

Angel
Yeah, add me to that prayer list for humility. Its one of these reasons I use my moniker, to remind me of what I am (or should it be “of what I am Not”).
 

Of course! In that sense we are all sons of God.
But in the sense that Jesus was son of God for lack of earthly father, that’s Greek Mythology.

Ben: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The only mythology here is your belief that Jesus did not claim to be God. It is understandable if you have not spent much time reading the Christian scriptures…why would you? However, in the Gospel of John, we find Jesus talking with a Samaritan woman with whom the following exchange occurs:

John 4:25-26
25The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26Then Jesus declared, “I who speak to you am he.”

Ben, Jesus declared Himself to be the Messiah. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Jesus also declared that God is His Father, and that He and the Father are one.

John 8:54
Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one.” - Jesus Christ

Again, this has nothing to do with Greek mythology. It has everything to do with the fulfillment of Judaism.

The Messiah has come, God incarnate. Jesus is Lord. Amen!
 
So, if I drop in on Carm.org with my anti-real-Christian agenda while simultaneously claiming to be searching for the Truth… 😉
…firstly, I am not a present member of Carm.org, so it would be close to impossible for us to have an exchange at that particular site; secondly, it depends upon your claims and statements.
Yeah, add me to that prayer list for humility. Its one of these reasons I use my moniker, to remind me of what I am (or should it be “of what I am Not”).
Done and done!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
.

41 While the Pharisees were gathered round, Jesus put to them this question, 42 ‘What is your opinion about the Christ? Whose son is he?’ They told him, ‘David’s.’ 43 He said to them, 'Then how is it that David, moved by the Spirit, calls him Lord, where he says: 44 The Lord declared to my Lord, take your seat at my right hand, till I have made your enemies your footstool? 45 ‘If David calls him Lord, how then can he be his son?’ 46 No one could think of anything to say in reply, and from that day no one dared to ask him any further questions. (St. Matthew 22:41-46)

Maran atha!

Angel
I am going to explain to you the truth about Psalm 110:1. But before doing so, I request that you read Isaiah 2:2,3. It says in there that when the Gentiles wish to be instructed in the Word of God, the address is Zion, I mean, the Jewish People.

This is only to build my credibility and make it easier for you to take the word of those whom the Almighty has entrusted His Word to,and that we be the guardians of It. That’s in Psalm 147:19,20. Now, let me explain to you Psalm 110:1.

“The Lord said to my Lord: ‘Sit at My right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.’” Most psalms of David were used to be chanted in the Temple by the Levites. When David wrote that Psalm it read thus: “The Lord said to me: ‘Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.’”

It would become awkward for the choir in the Temple to sing, “The Lord said to me.” Therefore, an alteration was made in the psalm and it came out to be, “The Lord (God) said to my Lord (David): ‘Sit at My right hand till I make of your enemies your footstool.’” I hope you have understood my explanation.

Ben: 🙂
 
I am going to explain to you the truth about Psalm 110:1. But before doing so, I request that you read Isaiah 2:2,3. It says in there that when the Gentiles wish to be instructed in the Word of God, the address is Zion, I mean, the Jewish People.

This is only to build my credibility and make it easier for you to take the word of those whom the Almighty has entrusted His Word to,and that we be the guardians of It. That’s in Psalm 147:19,20. Now, let me explain to you Psalm 110:1.

“The Lord said to my Lord: ‘Sit at My right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.’” Most psalms of David were used to be chanted in the Temple by the Levites. When David wrote that Psalm it read thus: “The Lord said to me: ‘Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.’”

It would become awkward for the choir in the Temple to sing, “The Lord said to me.” Therefore, an alteration was made in the psalm and it came out to be, “The Lord (God) said to my Lord (David): ‘Sit at My right hand till I make of your enemies your footstool.’” I hope you have understood my explanation.

Ben: 🙂
Let’s see, who are we going to believe when it comes to Bible interpretations, Jesus the Christ? Or Ben Mesada?

Um, I’ll get back to you on that one.
 
“The Lord said to my Lord: ‘Sit at My right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.’” Most psalms of David were used to be chanted in the Temple by the Levites. When David wrote that Psalm it read thus: “The Lord said to me: ‘Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.’”

It would become awkward for the choir in the Temple to sing, “The Lord said to me.” Therefore, an alteration was made in the psalm and it came out to be, “The Lord (God) said to my Lord (David): ‘Sit at My right hand till I make of your enemies your footstool.’” I hope you have understood my explanation.

Ben: 🙂
So, first of all, you are saying an outside source changed the words of the Psalms? That sounds so “christian-like”, doesn’t it? 😉

But, to prevent any further confusion, it seems our good choir should have sang, “The Lord said to David, sit at my right hand…”, wouldn’t you say?
 
I am going to explain to you the truth about Psalm 110:1. But before doing so, I request that you read Isaiah 2:2,3. It says in there that when the Gentiles wish to be instructed in the Word of God, the address is Zion, I mean, the Jewish People.

This is only to build my credibility and make it easier for you to take the word of those whom the Almighty has entrusted His Word to,and that we be the guardians of It. That’s in Psalm 147:19,20. Now, let me explain to you Psalm 110:1.

“The Lord said to my Lord: ‘Sit at My right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.’” Most psalms of David were used to be chanted in the Temple by the Levites. When David wrote that Psalm it read thus: “The Lord said to me: ‘Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.’”

It would become awkward for the choir in the Temple to sing, “The Lord said to me.” Therefore, an alteration was made in the psalm and it came out to be, “The Lord (God) said to my Lord (David): ‘Sit at My right hand till I make of your enemies your footstool.’” I hope you have understood my explanation.

Ben: 🙂
Ben, there’s no problem with your explanation… the problem is with your interpretation of Scriptures… you’ve reject Jesus as the Messiah and thusly you’ve truncated God’s Word. You speak of credibility, yet you lack the humility to accept that Abraham’s trek did not end with the Old Testament.

You are reaching and do not even know it because you blind yourself to the Truth. Do you recall David’s birth and status? He was the youngest of the sons of Jesse; he was so insignificant (young and showing very little signs of being extraordinary) that his own father did not even consider him when the prophet Samuel asked for Jesse and his sons to gather, make an offering to Yahweh and purify themselves.

David became the second king of Israel after Saul failed Yahweh God and he was deposed; interestingly enough that is exactly what Israel did to Yahweh when they demanded a human being as their king rather than their God, the true King.

You must do some fantastic contortions in order to reconcile David’s humble beginnings, a young shepherd, with the definition in Psalm 110:3:

Royal dignity has been yours from the day of your birth, sacred honour from the womb, from the dawn of your youth.

Now compare Jesus’ birth:

1 After Jesus had been born at Bethlehem in Judaea during the reign of King Herod, suddenly some wise men came to Jerusalem from the east 2 asking, ***‘Where is the infant king of the Jews? We saw his star as it rose and have come to do him ***homage.’ 3 When King Herod heard this he was perturbed, and so was the whole of Jerusalem. 4 He called together all the chief priests and the scribes of the people, and enquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5 They told him, ‘At Bethlehem in Judaea, for this is what the prophet wrote: 6 And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, you are by no means the least among the leaders of Judah, for from you will come a leader who will shepherd my people Israel.’ …And suddenly the star they had seen rising went forward and halted over the place where the child was. 10 The sight of the star filled them with delight, 11 and going into the house they saw the child with his mother Mary, and falling to their knees they did him homage. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh. (St. Matthew 2:1-11)

Then there’s the issue of the Priesthood–king David was never a king! Even if you were to somehow distort Scripture to make David a Priest, you would have a tough time explaining that he is somehow a Priest not in the line of Levi but that of Melchizedek!:

Yahweh has sworn an oath he will never retract, you are a priest for ever of the order of Melchizedek. (Psalm 110:4)

Finally we come to verses 5 and 6:

5 At your right hand, Lord, he shatters kings when his anger breaks out. 6 He judges nations, heaping up corpses, he breaks heads over the whole wide world. (Psalm 110:5-6)

This King sits on the Right Hand of Yahweh God and Rules and Judges the nations… when exactly did David accomplish that?

Maran atha!

Angel

PS: When you find it difficult to handle heavy text, do as I do:
  • I select pertinent material
  • I remove excess text and insert ellipsis (…) in its place.
PPS: It is best to discuss 1 point (at most 2) at a time due to constraints on amount of text per post (about 6K).
 
I think you’ve got the wrong poster.

But, in regards to Jesus calling God “Father”, what causes the dilemma. If God is a Trinity (Three Persons in One), then wouldn’t the Son address the Father in that way?
not worthy,
Yes , Jesus is God. See Jn.8:58, Col.1:15–20, Jn.1:1-3
Please reply. 🙂

God bless,
jean8
 
The Jewish Belief???

I (a Catholic) once talked with an orthodox Jew about scripture. In that conversation, I was startled to learn a really weird Jewish belief.

He informed that because God gave the Jews the Bible, they had every right to change if they saw fit! Why? BECAUSE … God gave it to them! Is it possible to enter into any debate then with anyone who believes something as ridiculous as that!

I was shocked… I mean … what more can be said. Maybe that God rewards lawyers for clever arguments or philosophers for clever word play.
 
The Jewish Belief???

I (a Catholic) once talked with an orthodox Jew about scripture. In that conversation, I was startled to learn a really weird Jewish belief.

He informed that because God gave the Jews the Bible, they had every right to change if they saw fit! Why? BECAUSE … God gave it to them! Is it possible to enter into any debate then with anyone who believes something as ridiculous as that!

I was shocked… I mean … what more can be said. Maybe that God rewards lawyers for clever arguments or philosophers for clever word play.
I suppose they feel they could change the book because they hold the original copyright. But what about the parts of the book that were “carved in stone?” Do they think they can rewrite the 10 Commandments? God wrote those in his own hand and then they lost the tablets so I don’t think they have a right to change the tablets they no longer have and never wrote.
 
🙂 Yeah … those Ten Commandments etched (are) etched in stone! 😛 👍

Never heard of “Iron Yamaka Style Kung Fu”? Maybe with it you can break stone tablets with your head. :confused: 🤷
 
The Jewish Belief???

I (a Catholic) once talked with an orthodox Jew about scripture. In that conversation, I was startled to learn a really weird Jewish belief.

He informed that because God gave the Jews the Bible, they had every right to change if they saw fit! Why? BECAUSE … God gave it to them! Is it possible to enter into any debate then with anyone who believes something as ridiculous as that!

I was shocked… I mean … what more can be said. Maybe that God rewards lawyers for clever arguments or philosophers for clever word play.
You now can understand why they reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah and their Lord and Savior!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I suppose they feel they could change the book because they hold the original copyright. But what about the parts of the book that were “carved in stone?” Do they think they can rewrite the 10 Commandments? God wrote those in his own hand and then they lost the tablets so I don’t think they have a right to change the tablets they no longer have and never wrote.
…not to mention what is written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
When Jesus prays to the Father, and when he says the Father is greater than He is, it is a matter of filial relationship. Isn’t your father greater than you are? Don’t you ask him for favors, etc.?

Although the Father is greater than He is, He still shares the power, glory, and majesty of the Holy Trinity.
 
When Jesus prays to the Father, and when he says the Father is greater than He is, it is a matter of filial relationship. Isn’t your father greater than you are? Don’t you ask him for favors, etc.?

Although the Father is greater than He is, He still shares the power, glory, and majesty of the Holy Trinity.
…and it was as the Word Incarnate that Jesus spoke those words so they were totally Truth!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
When Jesus prays to the Father, and when he says the Father is greater than He is, it is a matter of filial relationship. Isn’t your father greater than you are? Don’t you ask him for favors, etc.?

Although the Father is greater than He is, He still shares the power, glory, and majesty of the Holy Trinity.
He not only shares it; Jesus is fully God.

the Father can be said to be greater than the Son pertaining to their relation within the inner life of God, but not with respect to their shared nature as being fully and equally God. The Father alone is the first principle of life in the Godhead; thus, the Catechism of the Catholic Church can say, in paragraph 246: “Everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born . . .” (emphasis added). In this sense, the Father can be said to be greater than the Son relationally, while they are absolutely equal with regard to their essence as God.

Another—and perhaps simpler—way one can legitimately interpret this text is to point out that John 14:28 seems to be emphasizing the humanity of Christ. Thus, because Jesus is fully man, it would be appropriate to say the Father would be greater than the Son. The entire verse reads: “You heard me say to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

Jesus was emphasizing here and in previous verses his impending death, resurrection, and departure from the apostles. This would apply to his humanity most particularly. Thus, the same Jesus who can say, “I and the Father are one” in John 10:30—as God—can say, “The Father is greater than I” in John 14:28—as man.

catholic.com/thisrock/2008/0811btb.asp

Also,

John 14:28 is to be understood in light of passages such as Philippians 2:6-8, which show us that Christ in John 14:28 was speaking strictly in terms of his office as Messiah, which entailed a giving up, not of the Divine Nature, but of certain prerogatives of glory and Deity which are enjoyed by the Father. Christ subjected Himself to the Father in order to undertake His role as the Incarnate Son and Mediator between God and man (1 Tim 2:5). Similarly, one might say that “the President of the United States is a greater man than I am,” but this would not mean he was necessarily a better man. In any event, he is still a man like us. Since Jesus is still God, even while “humbling” Himself (Phil 2:8), Scripture also indicates that the Father is, in a sense, “subject” to the Son:

JOHN 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew {it} unto you.

JOHN 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give {it} you.

When the Father is called the “head” of the Son (1 Cor 11:3), this also does not entail any lessening of the equality between the Son and the Father. The Bible also talks about wives being subject to their husbands (1 Pet 3:1,5), even while the two are equals (Gal 3:28, Eph 5:21-22), and indeed, “one flesh” (Mt 19:5-6). Likewise, one Person of the Godhead can be in subjection to another Person and remain God in essence and substance (Phil 2:6-8). Luke 2:51 says that Jesus was “subject” to Mary and Joseph. Yet no orthodox Christian of any stripe would hold that Jesus was lesser in essence than His earthly parents! The same Greek word for “subject” in Luke 2:51 (hupotasso) is used in 1 Cor 15:28, and in 1 Pet 2:18 below. Besides, submissiveness and servanthood is not presented as a sign of weakness in Scripture. Quite the contrary:

socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/01/jesus-is-god-biblical-proofs.html
 
If he is the Alpha and the Omega the begining and the end then why does he tell people to Pray to the Father and why does he say through himself he can do nothing, only what the Father allows, and he siad Abba Father why have you forsaken me why would he say into your hands I commend my spirit, Yes I’ve heard of the trinity and the mystery of God, but many people claim Jesus and a prophet, who is healing the hindu, the muslim, the buddist, the atheist when they get sick?
YES. Both the Bible and Tradition calls for it.

You can fully understand why Jesus said and done all that you are asking by going through ALL the beautiful online lessons from St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology. Scott Hahn is very catholic. Start here.

It is good that you ask. By asking you will be opened to more wonders of God and His work of salvation for all men.

God bless us all.
 
YES. Both the Bible and Tradition calls for it.

You can fully understand why Jesus said and done all that you are asking by going through ALL the beautiful online lessons from St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology. Scott Hahn is very catholic. Start here.

It is good that you ask. By asking you will be opened to more wonders of God and His work of salvation for all men.

God bless us all.
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except through the son, what about Jewish people, I know Jesus was Jewish, what about Hindu’s, Buddist’s, Muslim’s, Atheist’s, 12 stepers in AA, God heals them, Blesses them, answer them,
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      if people don't believe Jesus was God can they be forgiven for their sin, do they have eternal life, where do they go of they don't know Jesus. Jesus said mercy is what pleases me not sacrifice.

        What if a man or woman lived a good life, but never recieved Jesus,  but a man or woman who recieved Jesus and sinned their whole life and asked for forgiveness, it seems the person who obeyed withot know the complete truth was more faithful than the person who knew the truth but was sinful, Do we have a license to sin all we need to do is repent and we can live anyway we want? Jesus said if you love me you will obey my commands,
if we have love and then live for pleasure or money or fame or other motives what’s the truth the scripture say many things, many contradictions. Could the people that wrote it down got it wrong? What’s the most important thing, love right , what are signs of love, jesus said you would know his disciples by their love for one another.
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       I know we are to interpret scripture thruogh the magistirum, tradition and the bible, but I don't uderstand what the church teach's in her writing's  the protestant have commentaires, they are easily read and cover the entire scriptue not portions our cathechism doesn't qoute much scripture or explain what was meant or the context in which the author's were referencing when writing.
Peace, Grace, Joy
 
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