Is Jesus God?

[read_me]

continuation…

The trinity is wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are as mystified by it as the child of seven. [Martin J. Scott, S.J., God and Myself, Nihil Obstat: Arthurus J. Scanlan, S.T.D., Imprimatur: Joannies Cardinalis Farley (P.J. Kennedy and Sons, 1917), pp. 118-119].
After hundreds of years of philosophizing and theologizing and speculating, here is a very revealing statement from the Catholic Church: 'The trinity is a mystery no one understands. And how indeed could anyone understand the teaching that the three persons, each of whom is the true God, are only one? In other words how could anyone understand the teaching that one plus one plus one equal to one? What kind of teaching is that? Perhaps Jesuit priest John Walsh can give us an idea:

God, of course cannot perform an absurdity, a contradiction in terms, He cannot, for instance make two and two equal five. [John Walsh, This is Catholicism (New York: Image Books, 19590, p. 25]

Today say that one plus one plus one plus one equal to one is no better than saying two and two equal five. What kind of equation is that? It is an absurdity, says Walsh, a contradiction in terms, God of course would never do, much more teach, a thing like that just as He would never make up such an absurdity as the so-called trinity.

So when another Jesuit priest C.F. Blount states, in his book The Blessed Trinity, that “the dogma of the Blessed Trinity is a mystery in the fullest sense” he could have substituted “absurdity” for “mystery” without making any substantial change in meaning. After all, as Blount himself adds, the dogma of the trinity “cannot be proved by the reason, … nay, it cannot even be proved to be possible.” [Rev. C.F. Blount, S.J., The Blessed Trinity (London: Catholic truth Society), p.2.]

The dogma of the so-called trinity is not only impossible and absurd but also unscriptural. It strenuously oppose the biblical teaching on the absolute oneness of God.

Did not God Himself say: “Is there a God besides me? Yes, there is not god: I know not any” (Is. 44:8)?

Surely, when God said: “Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me” (Is. 43:10), He pronounced an eternal truth which no amount of conciliar statements such as those formulated in the councils of Nicea and Constantinople in the fourth century could change.

In Deuteronomy 32:39, God said: “I, and I alone, am God; no other God is real.”
“Alone,” says Webster’s New World Dictionary of the American Language (p. 41), means “without any other person.”

Those self-proclaimed interpreters of the Bible who seem able to read “three divine persons” in these and other similar passages are either simply reading too much in the verse or just sorry of their own distorted vision and mental astigmatism.

For if there is such a thing as “persons in the Godhead” there are not three but only one “person,” the Father. Says the Prophet Malachi:

Have we not all one Father? Hath not one God created us? (Mal. 2:10)
Unfortunately to the vast majority of people today there are Gods other than the Father; “But to us,” say the Apostles to the members of the true Church of Christ, “there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him” (I Cor. 8:6).
But all the arguments and explanations we can muster to prove the absolute, numerical oneness of God the Father cannot be clearer than the statement of the Lord Christ Himself when He, in a solemn prayer to His Father, said:

Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that they Son also may glorify thee… And this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God . . . (Jn 17:1,3)

—END—
this were a long explanation about the trinity… and the sources are also from some books of the catholics. to anyone interested what trinity is, just read all these and so with patience! haha

 

[ready]

To those who do not believe in the divinity of Christ:

It takes the gift of faith to accept that Jesus is God. If you don’t believe that He is God just yet, consciously make a deliberate choice to accept that He is God. The understanding you need will follow later. But if you don’t willfully choose to believe Jesus is God in the present, I don’t see how God can give you understanding of his divinity in the future. As I understand things, faith is a gift, but it is also a choice. I learned that myself last October when I experienced a dark night of faith.

 

[jean8]

Isn’t God a woman, then?

The Shack? never heard of it. What is this book about and who is the author?

jean

 

[jean8]

Readme,

If we use your “pick and choose” literalistic interpretation and implement it into the rest of the New Testament, we would have to wonder who the Father of Jesus is.

Wouldn’t it be the Holy Spirit, and not God?

not worthy,
Your wondering who the Holy Spirit is?
Sometime too much information can be confusing. Especially when the Trinity is involved.
Lu. 1;26-38 will give you some of the answers you seek.

Verse 35 reads, 'The angel answered, “the Holy Spirit will come upon you,(Mary) and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God.”;

The Holy Spirit is God, Acts 5;3-4 The son is God 1Jn.5:20 and the Father is God. Gal.1:1
Are there there gods, no there is one God

Today the Holy Spirit indwells every believer Rom.8:9, Jn.7:37-39
The Holy Spirit was sent to the church as the Comforter Jn.14;16.

God bless,
jean

 

[read_me]

To those who do not believe in the divinity of Christ:

It takes the gift of faith to accept that Jesus is God. If you don’t believe that He is God just yet, consciously make a deliberate choice to accept that He is God. The understanding you need will follow later. But if you don’t willfully choose to believe Jesus is God in the present, I don’t see how God can give you understanding of his divinity in the future. As I understand things, faith is a gift, but it is also a choice. I learned that myself last October when I experienced a dark night of faith.

a big “no” to you, and please, read the whole explanation about trinity, just what i had posted to clearly understand it, that even the priests of the catholic churches says

"The trinity is wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are as mystified by it as the child of seven. [Martin J. Scott, S.J., God and Myself, Nihil Obstat: Arthurus J. Scanlan, S.T.D., Imprimatur: Joannies Cardinalis Farley (P.J. Kennedy and Sons, 1917), pp. 118-119].

After hundreds of years of philosophizing and theologizing and speculating, here is a very revealing statement from the Catholic Church: 'The trinity is a mystery no one understands. And how indeed could anyone understand the teaching that the three persons, each of whom is the true God, are only one? In other words how could anyone understand the teaching that one plus one plus one equal to one? What kind of teaching is that? Perhaps Jesuit priest John Walsh can give us an idea:

God, of course cannot perform an absurdity, a contradiction in terms, He cannot, for instance make two and two equal five.** [John Walsh, This is Catholicism (New York: Image Books, 19590, p. 25]"…
**

this is just one of the evidence about your trinity… just read it all, ok??

 

[NotWorthy]

not worthy,
Your wondering who the Holy Spirit is?
Sometime too much information can be confusing. Especially when the Trinity is involved.
Lu. 1;26-38 will give you some of the answers you seek.

Verse 35 reads, 'The angel answered, “the Holy Spirit will come upon you,(Mary) and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God.”;

The Holy Spirit is God, Acts 5;3-4 The son is God 1Jn.5:20 and the Father is God. Gal.1:1
Are there there gods, no there is one God

Today the Holy Spirit indwells every believer Rom.8:9, Jn.7:37-39
The Holy Spirit was sent to the church as the Comforter Jn.14;16.

God bless,
jean

Yes, I know that, Jean.

I’m just trying to see how “Read me’s” illogic produces an answer.

 

[NotWorthy]

a big “no” to you, and please, read the whole explanation about trinity, just what i had posted to clearly understand it, that even the priests of the catholic churches says

"The trinity is wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are as mystified by it as the child of seven. [Martin J. Scott, S.J., God and Myself, Nihil Obstat: Arthurus J. Scanlan, S.T.D., Imprimatur: Joannies Cardinalis Farley (P.J. Kennedy and Sons, 1917), pp. 118-119].

After hundreds of years of philosophizing and theologizing and speculating, here is a very revealing statement from the Catholic Church: 'The trinity is a mystery no one understands. And how indeed could anyone understand the teaching that the three persons, each of whom is the true God, are only one? In other words how could anyone understand the teaching that one plus one plus one equal to one? What kind of teaching is that? Perhaps Jesuit priest John Walsh can give us an idea:

God, of course cannot perform an absurdity, a contradiction in terms, He cannot, for instance make two and two equal five.** [John Walsh, This is Catholicism (New York: Image Books, 19590, p. 25]"…
**

this is just one of the evidence about your trinity… just read it all, ok??

Read me, if St. Paul, the divinely inspired author, can speak of some things as mysteries, I’m not sure there is a fallacy in the Church teaching the same.

 

[read_me]

Read me, if St. Paul, the divinely inspired author, can speak of some things as mysteries, I’m not sure there is a fallacy in the Church teaching the same.

ohh, and now you are slight learning about what trinity is, and you know what? i just search what trinity is because even i show all the proofs by picking up verses in the bible, still it cannot convince others that jesus is not god! why?? it is because of the belief of trinity!! so, you are not sure that there are a fallacy in your church?? well, now, see and think of these…!!!

 

[read_me]

ABOUT CHRISTMAS

still, source.iglesianicristo.info/incarticles_/christmas.html

THE TWENTY-FIFTH OF December is considered by many Catholics and Protestants as Christmas day—the birthday of Christ. It is the most celebrated holiday of the year throughout the world. It has inspired men of music to create such nostalgic and soothing tunes of “Silent Night,” the jolly beat of “Joy to the World” and other familiar Christmas carols. People could not help but listen to these tunes announcing the most awaited festival of the year. Young and old, men and women, rich and poor, all anxiously breathe the Christmas spirit and eagerly participate in one way or another in the celebration of the alleged birth anniversary of Christ.

Yet amidst all merrymaking activities of the yuletide season, members of the Iglesia ni Cristo are visibly non-participants in the worldwide commemoration of the alleged birth of Jesus on December 25.

“Why?” others would surely ask. “Don’t they believe in Jesus as the Christ, our Savior? Are they not happy about the birth of the Savior? Are they not Christians? If they do celebrate their own birthdays, why not Christmas?” These questions readily arise whenever one comes to know the beliefs of the Iglesia ni Cristo regarding the December 25 date of the Nativity of Jesus.

However, our non-participation in the December 25 festivities does not mean that we are against fun and merriment; neither are we anti-social nor against fostering peace and goodwill among men. Neither are we opposed to the idea that the birth of Christ is a day of rejoicing. On the day Christ was born, angels from heaven rejoiced, saying glory to God and peace among men (Lk. 2:13-14). We are one in the belief that the baby boy born in Bethlehem who was the son of Mary is Christ the Savior.

But for valid reasons, we refrain from participating with the world in activities alien to the Gospel. Christ has nothing to do with the December 25 celebration though He is supposed to be the center of the festivities. Nowhere in the New Testament is December 25 specified as the birth date of Christ. There has never been a single statement from Jesus or from His disciples commanding the commemoration of His birth. Instead, we find extra-biblical sources for the celebration traceable to pagan festivities of which the Catholic Church is fond of adopting as its own. More so, these appeared only centuries after the establishment of the Church of the New Testament.

The First “Christmas”
"How old is Christmas day?.. One would naturally think that the anniversary of so great an event as the birth of the Son of God would have been a day of religious joy from the earliest years of the Church; but it is clear that this was not the case. There is no mention of it in any of the oldest lists of the Church festivals… In the part of the Church which follows the Latin rite the celebration of Christmas on the twenty-fifth of December was begun probably about the middle of the fourth century. An ancient tradition assigned ^that day as the probable date of the great mystery of the Nativity…"l

"The first mention of Christmas as a festival of the Church on 25 December, goes back to AD 336. It comes in the Philocalian Catalogue (354), a civil and religious calendar compiled at Rome."2

If these records were accurate, the “first Christmas” would have been held on December 25,336 A.D., i.e., more than three centuries after the birth of Christ in Bethlehem. Certainly, however, Christ had nothing to do with the date for He had ascended into heaven in the first century. Obviously, His Apostles could not be the source of the selection of the date of the Nativity in the fourth century since they all had died even before the second century.

The Biblical Account
"In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled. This was the first enrollment, when Quirinius was governor of Syria. And all went to be enrolled, each to his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered. And she gave birth to her first-born son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.

“And in that region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.” (Lk. 2:1-8 Revised Standard Version)
Biblical historians know so well this narrative account of the events surrounding the birth of the Savior. On this, Catholic Bible scholars have this to say:

"Origin of Date - Concerning the date of Christ’s birth the Gospels give no help; indeed, upon their data contradictory arguments are based. The census would have been impossible in winter… Authorities moreover differ as to whether shepherds could or would keep flocks exposed during nights of the rainy season."3

 

[NotWorthy]

ohh, and now you are slight learning about what trinity is, and you know what? i just search what trinity is because even i show all the proofs by picking up verses in the bible, still it cannot convince others that jesus is not god! why?? it is because of the belief of trinity!! so, you are not sure that there are a fallacy in your church?? well, now, see and think of these…!!!

Read me, if you interpret Scripture as inaccurately as you interpret sarcasm, then you’ve got a long way to go.

To believe that there is fallacy in the teaching of the Catholic Church is to believe that Jesus was wrong in His promises to the Church.

 

[read_me]

continuation… about christmas…

Furthermore, a secular historian writing about Christmas noted that:
"The most widespread myth in the Christendom is that of Christmas. Those who take the Bethlehem birth-story as history readily accept the traditional date of Christ’s birthday. But all branches of the Church agree that no data exist for determining the day, month, or year of the event, nor was such festival celebrated in Apostolic or early Post-Apostolic times."4

It is evident that the Bible is silent regarding the exact date of Christ’s birth. The Gospel narrates that He was born during the period when the Roman census was in progress. Contrary to the December 25 tradition, it is argued that the census would have been impossible in winter. Some authorities pointed out that shepherds could not or would not keep their flocks exposed, during the nights of the rainy season. Moreover, it would have been absurd for the inspired writers of the New Testament to miss recording the date of Christ’s birthday if it should be commemorated by His disciples. Thus, it is not surprising for us to find neither explicit pronouncements nor implicit statements from the Bible effecting the celebration of Christmas more so on December 25, as the birthday of Christ.

The Origin Of The Date
Who was responsible for the initiation of the December 25 celebration? What were the reasons for choosing that particular date from among the 365 days of the year?

"No official reason has been handed down in ecclesiastical documents for the choice of this date… Some early Fathers and writers claimed that December 25 was the actual date of Christ’s birth, and that the authorities in Rome established this fact from the official records of the Roman census that had been taken at the time of the Saviour’s birth. Saint John Chrysostom held this opinion and used it to argue for the introduction of the Roman date in the Eastern Church. He was mistaken, however, for nobody in Rome ever claimed that the records of the census of Cyrinus were extant there in the fourth century, and much less that Christ’s birthday was registered in the lists. In fact, it was expressly stated in Rome that the actual date of the Saviour’s birth was unknown and that different traditions prevailed in different parts of the world."5

"Formerly Christmas was celebrated on January 6, but Pope Julius I, at the beginning of the fourth century, changed the day to December 25, since the date is unknown."6

Catholic authorities have not given any official statement for choosing December 25. If any biblical verse would be cited to support their claim, we should have found it in their writings on Christmas. But again, nowhere could we find substantial presentation of biblical evidences but rather their admission of the absence of any evidence at all. The fact is that a Roman Pope by the name of Julius I was responsible for assigning December 25 in the absence of a known date.

Whose Birthday Was Christinas?
Readers might have noticed that Julius I changed the date of Christmas from January 6 to December 25. Why?
"Pentecost and Epiphany were the next feasts added to the calendar; the latter, on January 6, coincided with the pagan festivals celebrating the birth of the new year. Christmas originated in the fourth century, when Constantine joined it with a pagan feast celebrating the birthday of the sun on December 25."7

“After the triumph of Constantine, the Church at Rome assigned December 25 as the date for the celebration of the feast, possibly about AD 320 or 353. By the end of the fourth century the whole Christian world was celebrating Christmas on that day, with the exception of the Eastern churches which celebrated it on January 6.”

Obviously, Julius I not only erred in assigning the date of Christ’s birth per se but was even indecisive in moving the date from January 6 to December 25. Doing so, he tried to avoid coincidence with one pagan festival just to coincide Christmas with another but greater pagan festival.
Any diligent student of Church history can easily discern why this is so. The influence of paganism to the Catholic Church began overtly when Constantine the Great ascended to the throne as the first “Christian Emperor.” He joined the pagan festival of celebrating the birthday of the sun and the celebration of the birth of Christ. Later, Pope Julius I, officially declared December 25 as the birthday of Jesus when in fact it is the supposed birthday of a pagan god.

Paganism Over “Christianity”
What made Julius I, the alleged head of Christendom, subscribe to pagan festivals and practices?

“The pagan Saturnalia and Brumalia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence. The recognition of Sunday (the day of Phoebus and Mithras as well as the Lord’s Day) by the emperor Constantine as a legal holiday, along with the influence of Manicheism, which identified the Son of God with the physical sun, may have led Christians of the fourth century to feel the appropriateness of making the birth day of the Son of God coincide with that of the physical sun. The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit or in manner.”

 

[read_me]

continuation… about christmas…

"… the choice of December 25 was influenced by the fact that the Romans, from the time of Emperor Aurelian (275), had celebrated the feast of the sun god, (Sol Invictus: the Unconquered Sun) on that day. December 25 was called the ‘Birthday of the Sun/ and great pagan religious celebrations of the Mithras cult were held all through the empire. What was more natural than that Christians celebrate the birth of Him Who was the TJght of the World’ and the true ‘Son of Justice’ on this very day?.."10

Obviously, December 25 as Christmas is not the birthday of Christ but of the pagan sun god, Sol Invictus.

Hence, the December 25 tradition with its practices is a Christianized pagan festival. The riot and merrymaking is dedicated no longer to Sol Invictus but now to Christ Jesus! What were once dedicated to a pagan god are now dedicated to Christ as birthday presents. What insult can be greater than this?

Yet Catholic authorities neither mind nor prohibit lay Catholics from participating in pagan festivals. Why? John F. Sullivan, a noted Catholic theologian states:

"It is interesting to note how often our Church has availed herself of practices which were in common use among pagans, and which owed their origin to their appropriateness for expressing something spiritual by material means… she has often found that it was well to take what was praiseworthy in other forms of worship and adapt it to her own purposes, for the sanctification of her children. Thus it is true, in a certain sense, that some Catholic rites and ceremonies are a reproduction of those of pagan creeds; but they are the taking of what was best from paganism, the keeping of symbolical practices which express the religious instinct that is common to all races and times."11

Catholic authorities admit their interest in adopting customs and traditions from pagan rites and ceremonies in their worship allegedly for the sanctification of her members.

What’s Wrong With Paganism?
The meaning of the term pagan gives us reasons to reject anything pagans do and practice. Webster’s New World Dictionary states:
“Pagan -… .the opposite of Christian. … a person who is not a Christian. … not a Christian.”
It is interesting to note that even the etymology of the term pagan would show the incompatibility of Christianity and paganism. Any good book on church history would contain the origin of the term.

"Churches were first established in the cities. The people in the country continued to be heathen when the people in the cities had already become Christians. The Latin word for country people was pagani. So the name pagani of pagans became equivalent to heathen. From the cities Christianity spread among the heathen, or pagans, in the country."12

Yes it would be unwise for true Christians to base their positions on secular history and not on the Holy Scriptures. How do true Christians view pagans and their practices? In Ephesians 4:17-18, 20, Apostle Paul states:

"In particular, I want to urge you in the name of the Lord, not to go on living the aimless kind of life that pagans live. Intellectually they are in the dark, and they are estranged from the life of God, without knowledge because they have shut their hearts to it.

“Now that is hardly the way you have learned from Christ, unless you failed to hear him properly when you were taught what the truth is in Jesus.” (Jerusalem Bible)

The most traveled among the Apostles attested to the fact that pagans live an aimless life, being estranged from the life of God. Living the way as they do is hardly the way of Christ and Apostle Paul urged all Christians not to go on living as the pagans do.

The supposed celebrant of Christmas has this to say:
“And he said to them, ‘How ingeniously you get around the commandments of God in order to preserve your own tradition!’” (Mk. 7:9, Ibid.)

To the Catholic claim that pagan forms of worship could sanctify her children, God said:

“This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men’.” (Mt. 15:8-9, Revised Standard Version)

The Christmas celebration is pagan and anything pagan is abhorrent to Christ. To make this as an activity honoring Him on His birthday is not only erroneous and unscriptural but a great insult to Him as well. How can one, in his right mind, offer a person something which the latter abhors?

 

[NotWorthy]

Read me,

All you’ve proved in these last several posts is that you are capable of cutting and pasting. This puts you at least on par with the average 2nd grader.

If most of the other followers of this thread are like me, than they haven’t read more than a couple of lines of this drivel and moved onto the next post (or another thread).

Please observe forum rules about cutting and pasting and learn to “cut to the chase” instead. To those of us with the attention span of a tree frog, you are simply wasting your time and trying to waste ours.

 

[read_me]

Read me, if you interpret Scripture as inaccurately as you interpret sarcasm, then you’ve got a long way to go.

To believe that there is fallacy in the teaching of the Catholic Church is to believe that Jesus was wrong in His promises to the Church.

again, i will say a big “no” to you…
you have said that.

"To believe that there is fallacy in the teaching of the Catholic Church is to believe that Jesus was wrong in His promises to the Church"

and now you are questioning of jesus? ohh, i wish god to forgive you. that is not the right understanding about that! it is just that the priests made your church to become not to god! or moves you to the wrong way of worshiping god, because the priests made many additions to their teachings. one proof is about the teaching of Christmas every dec25. just read it with understanding… and think of that, ok??

 

[NotWorthy]

again, i will say a big “no” to you…
you have said that.

"To believe that there is fallacy in the teaching of the Catholic Church is to believe that Jesus was wrong in His promises to the Church"

I agree with this statement.

But…

and now you are questioning of jesus? ohh, i wish god to forgive you. that is not the right understanding about that!

…then again you display your ineptitude at interpreting my words. I do not question Jesus on this matter. I trust Jesus in this matter, so to be frank with you, you’ve don’t have to ask God to forgive me for this. You may wish to ask God to strengthen your abiliity to understand the words that you read, however.

it is just that the priests made your church to become not to god! or moves you to the wrong way of worshiping god, because the priests made many additions to their teachings. one proof is about the teaching of Christmas every dec25. just read it with understanding… and think of that, ok??

I read enough of that drivel to come up with one point.

Your author seems to speak out of both sides of his mouth. First he claims that the Church “infallibly” teaches that Jesus was born on December 25th. Then he goes on to claim that nowhere does the Church say that they know on what day this happened.

So which is it…

 

[NotWorthy]

Read me,

Let me show you a scenario which will show you how ridiculous the author of that article on December 25th’s conclusions are:

In my area, some Christian churches feel that Halloween is a pagan celebration and they wish that their congregations would not take part in this ungodly tradition (their thoughts… not mine).

So these churches start up a “Fall Festival” on Halloween night to offer an alternative to the trick or treating.

Now, let me ask you. Are these churches adopting pagan traditions or combating them?

If the Church chose December 25th to celebrate Christ’s birth to combat pagan rituals, than I am proud of them for finding ways of pulling to weak in spirit away from such corruptible acts.

 

[jcrichton]

and i had just realized that i make my self tired…
do all you noticed it? haha

You make yourself tired because you are fighting Yahweh God; you refuse to accept Him as He chooses to reveal Himself: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit!

FROM: iglesianicristo.info/incarticles_/fundamentalbelief.html

It should read “iglesia anti-Cristo” since it is denying Christ’s Divinity; all Christians very well know that to deny the Son is to deny the Father and the one who denies Christ it is
the anti-Christ!

Notwithstanding the ordinary members… What is the etymology and meaning of the word Trinity, and when was it introduced into the language of the church?.. The Greek word trias was first used in this connection by Theophilus, bishop of Antioch, in Syria, from A.D. 168 to A.D. 183. The Latin term Trinitas was first introduced by Tertullian, circum. 220 [A.A. Hodge, Outline of Theology: for Students and Laymen (Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1879), p. 164.]… words as “persona,” “substancia,” “hypostasis,”… the invention of the term trinity did not occur until the latter part of the second century and the early part of the third century and that it only came into the religious scene long after the death of the Apostles and after the last books of the New Testament were written… a series of gradual but very discernible changes that occurred in the doctrines of the true Christ Church after the death of the Apostles. Such changes indicated falling away or departure from the faith. They clearly reflected in the writings of the early Catholic Church Fathers… And this is no wonder, for it means the transition from the truth given by infallible inspiration to truth reproduced by fallible pioneers. [Louis Berkhol, The History of Christian Doctrines (Michigan: Mallby, Inc., 1937), p. 38]…

You are either very well versed in semantics or are a blind follower of one who is… regardless of the actual state, you are a great deceiver who rejects Scriptures for the wisdom of man:

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Romans 8:5-11
5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if ***the Spirit of God ***lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the ***Spirit of God ***says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

I pray to the Holy Spirit that you would stop your nonsence (seeking to know God through human wisdom), that you stop challenging Christ’s Authority, and that you humbly submit to God’s Will. I offer you the perfect passage to study if you truly are seeking to know God’s revelation; do not simply reject God’s Word, rather, study the Scriptures deligently with an open mind and heart and the Holy Spirit, Who is the Spirit of the Father and of the Son, will reveal to you the Mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:1-16):

1 Corinthians 12:4-11
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.** 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

Consider, for instance, the introduction of the teaching that presents Christ as the true God. It has no biblical foundation. Rather, it contradicts every biblical teaching on the absolute oneness of God.

The New Testament never taught that Christ is the true God. Some Catholic theologians came to realize this after attempting to find biblical support for the doctrine of the deity of Christ. Raymond Brown testifies that

This is so flawed that I can only believe that the anti-Christ inspired such reason… here’s the truth from the Sacred Scriptures:

1 John 5:19-21 (New International Version)
19We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

May you humble yourself to God’s Holy Sprit so that the Truth, Christ Jesus, may be revealed to you!

Maran atha!

Angel**

 

[jcrichton]

continuation…
Jesus is never called God in the Synoptic Gospels… This negative conclusion is substantiated by the fact that Paul does not use the title in nay epistle written before 58. [Raymond Brown, Jesus God and Man (Milwaukee: The Bruce Publishing Company, 19670, p. 30]… The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600) (Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1971), p. 173).]

Rudolf Bultmann, a well-known theologian, observes that “it is only with the Apostolic Fathers that free unambiguous reference to Jesus Christ as ‘our God’ begins” [Raymond Brown, Jesus God and Man, p. 29.].

These confirm Berkhol’s observation that “in passing from the study of the New Testament to that of the Apostolic Fathers one is conscious of a tremendous change.” The change from the Apostles’ belief that Christ is man to the early Catholic Church Fathers’ belief that He is God is indeed a tremendous one.

It should not surprise us though, for the Apostles had forewarned that deceivers would come preaching “another Jesus, whom we have not preached” (II Cor. 11:4). We now know that fulfillment of that prophecy.

Now, take note that we are not actually digressing from the subject we set out to discuss here, namely, the trinity. The doctrine of the so-called trinity is very closely related to the doctrine of the so-called deity of Christ. As a matter of fact the two doctrines have, what we may call, a symbiotic relation. If they are valid at all, this “validity,” too, is interdependent, so that they are from the very start doomed to crumble together.

To trace the origin of the doctrine of the trinity one has to begin with the doctrine of the so-called deity of Christ. After all, as Shedd puts it:

The construction of the doctrine of the Trinity started not so much from a consideration of the three Persons, as from a belief in the deity of one of them, namely the Son. This was the root of the most speculative dogma in the Christian system. [William G.T. Shedd, D.D., History of the Christian Doctrine, Vol. I (Minnesota: Klock and Klock Christian Publishers, 1889), p. 262.]

We have seen that it was not until after the death of the Apostles that the doctrine of the deity of Christ emerged. It w as introduced by the early Catholic Church Fathers, and the Apostles had nothing to do with them nor with their teachings. This fact poses a very pertinent question: Why did the early Catholics, the so-called Christians of the second and third centuries, teach that Christ is the true God?

During the second and third centuries the Church was severely persecuted by both the Greeks and the Jews. One particular object of such attacks was the Christian practice of worshipping Christ. The Jews denounced such worship as utter polytheism. This is understandable, considering the Jews’ strict adherence to the Old Testament teaching on the absolute oneness of God. The Greeks, on the other hand, denounced the Christians as atheists. Church historian Williston Walker puts it thus:

The charges brought against the Christians were atheism and anarchy. Their rejection of the old gods seemed atheism; and their refusal to join in emperor-worship appeared treasonable. [Williston Walker; A History Of The Christian Church, 3rd ed. (New York: Charles Scribner’s, 1970), p.43).

Some of the contemporary philosophers charged them with polytheism too:
Thus Celsus, a scoffing philosopher of the third century, contended that the Christians had no right to criticize the polytheism of the pagan world since their own worship of Christ was essentially polytheistic. ‘The Christians,’ he declared, ‘worshipped no God; no, not even a demon, but only a dead man … If they do not wish to worship the pagan gods,’ he said, 'why should they not rather pay their devotions to some of their own prophets than to a man who had been crucified by the Jews?" [Rev. John A. O’Brien, Ll. D., The Faith of Millions, Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward A. Miller, Imprimatur: John Francis Noll (Indiana: Our Sunday Visitor, Inc., 1939) p. 99.]

It was in the process of answering this hostile criticism, that the early Catholic Church Fathers came up with the teaching that presents Christ as God. That, certainly, was a great blunder! They could have simply retorted that the Christians worship Christ not because He is God but because it was the will of God. As it is written in Philippians 2:9-11:

For this reason God raised him to the highest place above and gave him the name that is greater than any other name. And so, in honor of the name of Jesus all beings in heaven, on earth, and in the world below will fall on their knees. And all will openly proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. (TEV)

…for someone who claimed to be Christian you sure have alligned yourself with anti-Christian pretenders!:

I will guide you to some understanding… if you need the actual passages I suggest you search for yourself:

I and the Father are One.
If you have seen the Son you seen the Father.
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and that the Father is in Me?
…now we know that you know everything and that there’s no need to ask you.
what have we to do with you, have you come to torture us before time?
I know who you are, you are the Holy One of God.
…I will send my messenger ahead of me and the Lord who you are awaiting will come to the Temple
they will be taught by Yahweh God.
None have seen the Father, Only the Son, who is in the Father’s presence, has revealed it.

…what has been revealed? …simply that:

In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word is God!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

continuation…
Had they held fast to that teaching, maybe, just maybe, they would not have fallen away from the pristine Christian faith. But it seems that they did not want to justify their act of worshipping Christ using only the express teachings of the Apostles.

Are you as thick as the people you emulate?:

Matthew 4:7
Jesus answered him, "It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ "

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ "

Matthew 22:37
Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

Mark 12:29
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Mark 12:30
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Luke 1:6
Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.

Luke 1:16
Many of the people of Israel will he bring back to the Lord their God.

Luke 1:32
He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,

Luke 1:68
"Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, because he has come and has redeemed his people.

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, "It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ "

Luke 4:12
Jesus answered, "It says: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ "

Luke 10:27
He answered: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ ; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ "

Luke 20:37
But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’

John 11:27
“Yes, Lord,” she told him, “I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world.”

John 20:28
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

So… how many Lords did the Apostles (which is inclusive of all Believers) have?:

Romans 10 (New International Version)

1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them.“6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.” 19Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.” 20And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.” 21But concerning Israel he says,
“All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

…and if you, and your teachers, still believe that there are more than one Lords… I would love for you to study the following:

Revelation (Apocalypse) 17:14
They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."

I hope you know who that Lamb is!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

continuation…
…God, of course cannot perform an absurdity, a contradiction in terms, He cannot, for instance make two and two equal five. [John Walsh, This is Catholicism (New York: Image Books, 19590, p. 25]

The dogma of the so-called trinity is not only impossible and absurd but also unscriptural. It strenuously oppose the biblical teaching on the absolute oneness of God.

Did not God Himself say: “Is there a God besides me? Yes, there is not god: I know not any” (Is. 44:8)?

Surely, when God said: “Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me” (Is. 43:10), He pronounced an eternal truth which no amount of conciliar statements such as those formulated in the councils of Nicea and Constantinople in the fourth century could change.

In Deuteronomy 32:39, God said: “I, and I alone, am God; no other God is real.”
“Alone,” says Webster’s New World Dictionary of the American Language (p. 41), means “without any other person.”

Those self-proclaimed interpreters of the Bible who seem able to read “three divine persons” in these and other similar passages are either simply reading too much in the verse or just sorry of their own distorted vision and mental astigmatism.

For if there is such a thing as “persons in the Godhead” there are not three but only one “person,” the Father. Says the Prophet Malachi:

Have we not all one Father? Hath not one God created us? (Mal. 2:10)
Unfortunately to the vast majority of people today there are Gods other than the Father; “But to us,” say the Apostles to the members of the true Church of Christ, “there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him” (I Cor. 8:6).
But all the arguments and explanations we can muster to prove the absolute, numerical oneness of God the Father cannot be clearer than the statement of the Lord Christ Himself when He, in a solemn prayer to His Father, said:

Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that they Son also may glorify thee… And this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God . . . (Jn 17:1,3)

—END—
this were a long explanation about the trinity… and the sources are also from some books of the catholics. to anyone interested what trinity is, just read all these and so with patience! haha

You are as confused as these who reject Yahweh God’s revelations!

Anyone who follows you and your teachers are blind men who seek damnation rather than Salvation.

You are welcomed to follow Satan in his rejection of God’s Authority.

…sadly, you have come close to understanding (but have given yourself to your finite reason) that there is Only One God, who is Only One Lord, who is Only One King, who is the Alpha and the Omega, the One who Was, Is, and Is to Come: they Pierced One, the Lion of Israel, the Amen!

To understand the Holy Trinity and the fact that there is One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, all, including yourself and those poor souls who are so so so lost, should simply contemplate what the Holy Spirit is Revealing:

Romans 14:6-18
6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:
" ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’ " 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

Maran atha!

Angel