Is Jesus God?

[NotWorthy]

RESPONSE:

“Lord” or “My Lord” is a title of respect, not a claim of divinity. Does the English “House of Lords” consider its members divine? Same thing.

Ahhhh, so this is what happens when pure logic comes across the refusal to acknowledge the truth.

As I’ve demonstrated, none of the other “Lord’s” in Luke 1 & 2 refer to “terms of respect”. It would be improper for Luke to simply switch in a “term of respect” among all those “God’s”.

It would be like saying, “I went on a 5 mile run. Yesterday’s **run **was bad. Today’s **run **was good.”

Now, did you understand that yesterday’s run was a run in my wife’s stockings, while today’s run was the 5 mile run. No, the context was unclear. That’s exactly the same as throwing in a “Lord, my Master” amongst all of the “Lord, my God”.

 

[JP_Marat]

Ahhhh, so this is what happens when pure logic comes across the refusal to acknowledge the truth.

As I’ve demonstrated, none of the other “Lord’s” in Luke 1 & 2 refer to “terms of respect”. It would be improper for Luke to simply switch in a “term of respect” among all those “God’s”.

It would be like saying, “I went on a 5 mile run. Yesterday’s **run **was bad. Today’s **run **was good.”

Now, did you understand that yesterday’s run was a run in my wife’s stockings, while today’s run was the 5 mile run. No, the context was unclear. That’s exactly the same as throwing in a “Lord, my Master” amongst all of the “Lord, my God”.

RESPONSE:

It sounds like you are beginning to lose it.

One last time and I’ll leave you to your error. Try using a dictionary and looking up the word “lord.” It means “a person who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler.” It does not necessarity mean God.

If you read more of Luke you will find that he considers Jesus to merely be a man (messiah) favored by God, but not having the powers of God himself.

"You who are Israelites, hear these words. Jesus the Nazorean was a man commended to you by God with mighty deeds, wonders, and signs, which God worked through him in your midst, as you yourselves know.

This man, delivered up by the set plan and foreknowledge of God, you killed, using
But God raised him up, releasing him from the throes of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it."

Summary:

Jesus is a man favored by God.

God worked signs through him. Not by Jesus’ power.

God raised Jesus from the dead much like Lazarus. Jesus did not rise by his own power.

 

[Canto]

Luke 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the **Lord God **shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob forever.

Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Luke 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel: because he hath visited and wrought the redemption of **his people. **

Luke 4:12 And Jesus answering, said to him: It is said: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

 

[NotWorthy]

It sounds like you are beginning to lose it.

One last time and I’ll leave you to your error. Try using a dictionary and looking up the word “lord.” It means “a person who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler.” It does not necessarity mean God.

Except, of course, when you look at it in context, eh? You simply ignore that little fact that I’ve dwelt on for some time.

If you read more of Luke you will find that he considers Jesus to merely be a man (messiah) favored by God, but not having the powers of God himself.

I get it! Ignore what disagrees with you and believe only what supports your argument.

Let me ask you, did you look up my earlier questions? Who only can tread the waters? Who can calm the sea? Who did God tell Jeremiah that He would send to shepherd His people?

Answer these, please and I’ll address whether Luke thought Jesus was God or not?

 

[ready]

RESPONSE:

“Lord” or “My Lord” is a title of respect, not a claim of divinity. Does the English “House of Lords” consider its members divine? Same thing.

I think it was Scott Hahn who said that in the Bible “Lord” means God. If I didn’t hear this from him, I heard it from some other reputable speaker on EWTN.

 

[JP_Marat]

Luke 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the **Lord God **shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob forever.

Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Luke 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel: because he hath visited and wrought the redemption of **his people. **

Luke 4:12 And Jesus answering, said to him: It is said: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

RESPONSE:

1.>> He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the **Lord God **shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob forever.<<

Catholic Encyclopedia: The leaders of the people, kings, princes, judges, as holding authority from God, were called sons of God. The theocratic king as lieutenant of God, and especially when he was providentially selected to be a type of the Messias, was honoured with the title “Son of God”.

1. Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? <<

This would apply to many mothers esp KIng David’s mother.

1. Luke 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel: because he hath visited and wrought the redemption of **his people. **<<

Yes. God is sometimes refered to as Lord.

1. Luke 4:12 And Jesus answering, said to him: It is said: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.<<

Yes. So Jesus didn’t ask God to do what the devil wanted.

“The lord said to my lord” Were both divine?

 

[JP_Marat]

Except, of course, when you look at it in context, eh? You simply ignore that little fact that I’ve dwelt on for some time.

I get it! Ignore what disagrees with you and believe only what supports your argument.

Let me ask you, did you look up my earlier questions? Who only can tread the waters? Who can calm the sea? Who did God tell Jeremiah that He would send to shepherd His people?

Answer these, please and I’ll address whether Luke thought Jesus was God or not?

RESPONSE:

One just has to love the old “context” argument where plain words can be said to mean something entirely different.

For example, the scriptural passages that say Jesus will return on clouds when “placed in context” might be claimed to be proof that he will return in a helicopter, right?

No. Ignore obvious error as in the case of your argument.

Anyone who knows where the rocks are can walk on water.

I’ve demonstrate from Acts of the Apostles that Luke considerd Jesus to be a man favored by God through whom God (not Jesus) worked signs.

I

 

[Canto]

RESPONSE:

1.>> He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the **Lord God **shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob forever.<<

Catholic Encyclopedia: The leaders of the people, kings, princes, judges, as holding authority from God, were called sons of God. The theocratic king as lieutenant of God, and especially when he was providentially selected to be a type of the Messias, was honoured with the title “Son of God”.

1. Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? <<

   The same Cath Encyc writes of the divinity of Christ.
   
   1 shows Lord as God
   2 11 verses later we see Lord used, a coincidence???
   3 The Lord God has visited His people - and the Word was made flesh
   
   from forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=140501
   
   Jn 8:58-59 “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’”
   
   “I am” in Scripture is the preeminent way God identifies Himself. See Ex 3:14
   
   Jn 10:38 “the Father and I are one.”
   
   Jn 12:45 “…whoever sees me sees he one who sent me.”
   
   Jn 20:28 Jesus accepts Thomas’ profession of faith: “My Lord and my God!”
   
   Col 2:9 “For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily…”
   
   Tit 2:13 “awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ”
   
   +2000 years of Christian Tradtion

 

[NotWorthy]

RESPONSE:

One just has to love the old “context” argument where plain words can be said to mean something entirely different.

For example, the scriptural passages that say Jesus will return on clouds when “placed in context” might be claimed to be proof that he will return in a helicopter, right?

And that has nothing to do with the argument. Just because SOME arguments for context are invalid, doesn’t mean ALL arguments fall short. You’ve yet to addressed why Luke would change the meaning of “Lord” once or twice in 2 chapters (out of 20 times) and not make it clear, even though you admit Luke was grammatically savvy.

No. Ignore obvious error as in the case of your argument.

And yet you haven’t been able to pin-point that error. You tried, but I don’t think the Book of Moses could be considered to be in the same context as the infant narratives. It’s like claiming that Jesus comes down in the clouds in a helicopter!

Anyone who knows where the rocks are can walk on water.

Nice dodge. Are you claiming that Jesus walked on rocks, or are you simply trying to duck the point?

I’ve demonstrate from Acts of the Apostles that Luke considerd Jesus to be a man favored by God through whom God (not Jesus) worked signs.

And once you address the issue, I may take the time to address yours.

 

[JP_Marat]

And that has nothing to do with the argument. Just because SOME arguments for context are invalid, doesn’t mean ALL arguments fall short. You’ve yet to addressed why Luke would change the meaning of “Lord” once or twice in 2 chapters (out of 20 times) and not make it clear, even though you admit Luke was grammatically savvy.

And yet you haven’t been able to pin-point that error. You tried, but I don’t think the Book of Moses could be considered to be in the same context as the infant narratives. It’s like claiming that Jesus comes down in the clouds in a helicopter!

Nice dodge. Are you claiming that Jesus walked on rocks, or are you simply trying to duck the point?

And once you address the issue, I may take the time to address yours.

RESPONSE:

Until you are able to produce a quotation by Jesus claiming that he is divine in the synoptic gospels (written before about 90 AD), the question has been asked and answered.

 

[NotWorthy]

RESPONSE:

Until you are able to produce a quotation by Jesus claiming that he is divine in the synoptic gospels (written before about 90 AD), the question has been asked and answered.

OK, nice dodge.

I didn’t know that those were the qualifying parameters. But why the synoptics? What’s wrong with John’s Gospel? That little Motza Ball by Thomas a little too blatant?

 

[JP_Marat]

OK, nice dodge.

I didn’t know that those were the qualifying parameters. But why the synoptics? What’s wrong with John’s Gospel? That little Motza Ball by Thomas a little too blatant?

RESPONSE:

Gospel of Mark written about 70 AD

Gospel of Matthew written about 80 AD

Gospel of Luke written about 85 AD

Christians expelled from Jewish synagogues.

Gospel of John written 95 -105 AD

See the difference. What does John say about exclusion from the Temple? Why?

 

[adrift]

RESPONSE:

Oxford Dictionary:

“Lord Used in both OT and NT, as in addressing Moses as leader (Num. 32: 25) and **masters by slaves **(Matt. 18: 25); also by Jesus in reference to the authority of the Son of Man over the Sabbath (Mark 2: 28) and by others in speaking to Jesus as a person with authority (Matt. 7: 21).”

“Lord” is a title of respect for any person with authority. It is not synonymous with God.

Oxford is not a religious dictionary. The religious definition is

Title commonly used of God in the Old Testament (Adonai), and commonly applied to Christ in the New Testament (Kyrios). In the Vulgate it is used in place of Yahweh. The consistent way that St. Paul and other New Testament writers use the term of Christ indicates that they regarded Him as God.

 

[NotWorthy]

RESPONSE:

Gospel of Mark written about 70 AD

Gospel of Matthew written about 80 AD

Gospel of Luke written about 85 AD

Christians expelled from Jewish synagogues.

Gospel of John written 95 -105 AD

See the difference. What does John say about exclusion from the Temple? Why?

Are you saying the Gospel of John is not inspired? :whacky:

I don’t see that the temple has anything to do with it.

 

[adrift]

RESPONSE:

Then how about giving us a summation of what you claim is being proven.

For example, if I want to use the Encyclopedia Britannica to prove a point, should I just cite the Encyclopedia and expect readers to believe me?

I think what the guidelines are saying is not to cut and paste the entire article, not no information at all that the article contains.

But if that is the case, should posters only cite “The Bible” if they are discussing a point in scripture?

Post 441 has a link to a previous discussion

Perhaps this wasn’t clear enough. It is another thread about the scripture you quoted. That is about as much as a summary as you can get.

 

[adrift]

RESPONSE:

Gospel of Mark written about 70 AD

Gospel of Matthew written about 80 AD

Gospel of Luke written about 85 AD

Christians expelled from Jewish synagogues.

Gospel of John written 95 -105 AD

See the difference. What does John say about exclusion from the Temple? Why?

You state this as if it is provable fact not what it is an on going debatable topic.
So I will follow your lead

Mathew was written before 70 AD and as early as 50 AD
Mark beteen 50 and 70 AD
Luke 62 AD
John 80’s to 90’s.

 

[Canto]

RESPONSE:

Gospel of Mark written about 70 AD

Gospel of Matthew written about 80 AD

Gospel of Luke written about 85 AD

Christians expelled from Jewish synagogues.

Gospel of John written 95 -105 AD

See the difference. What does John say about exclusion from the Temple? Why?

The synoptic gospels are not the earliest documents in the New Testament. The earliest documents are generally agreed to be Paul’s letters, which contain some of the strongest statements of Jesus’ divinity, such as Colossians 2:9: “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” and Philippians 2:5-7: “Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.”

whyfaith.com/2009/04/ - a non Catholic site

Jesus said only God should be worshiped - Matthew 4:10
Jesus was worshiped by those in a boat – Matthew 14:33
Jesus was worshiped by a ruler – Matthew 9:18
Jesus was worshiped by women – Matthew 28:9
Jesus was worshiped by his disciples – Matthew 28:17
Jesus never rebuked them or objected

In Acts 10:25 however Peter is worshiped by Cornelius and in the next verse Peter says “Arise: I myself also am a man.”

 

[JP_Marat]

You state this as if it is provable fact not what it is an on going debatable topic.
So I will follow your lead

Mathew was written before 70 AD and as early as 50 AD
Mark beteen 50 and 70 AD
Luke 62 AD
John 80’s to 90’s.

RESPONSE:

Perhaps you aren’t following the question. The issue was why does John address the divinity of Jesus while the synoptics don’t.

Since John mentions the exclusion of the Christians for the synagogue (c 85 A.D.) it’s safe to think that he wrote after this time. The Synoptics wrote earlier. The Christians were still a devout Jewish sect “zealous for the law.” They didn’t claim a second divinity or they never would have been allowed to continue as a Jewish Temple worshipping sect.

 

[JP_Marat]

Oxford is not a religious dictionary. The religious definition is

I don’t recall which Oxford dictionary I used. But it may have been the Oxford Dictionary of World Religions. There are a number of such Oxford dictionaries.

But this need not trouble us. From the Bible itself we can find passages refering to “Lord” clearly not meaning God.

For example, 2 Sam 19:27 "He replied: "My lord the king, my servant betrayed me. For your servant, who is lame, said to him, ‘Saddle the *** for me, that I may ride on it and go with the king.’

A respectful form of address for anyone in authority was “Lord”

If Lord always meant God, and Jesus was addressed as “Lord,” wouldn’t the monotheistic Jews have had something to say about it?

 

[Steven_John]

Jesus said only God should be worshiped - Matthew 4:10
Jesus was worshiped by those in a boat – Matthew 14:33
Jesus was worshiped by a ruler – Matthew 9:18
Jesus was worshiped by women – Matthew 28:9
Jesus was worshiped by his disciples – Matthew 28:17
Jesus never rebuked them or objected

In Acts 10:25 however Peter is worshiped by Cornelius and in the next verse Peter says “Arise: I myself also am a man.”

Matthew 14:33*(Young’s Literal Translation)
*33and those in the boat having come, did bow to him, saying, `Truly – God’s Son art thou

Matthew 9:18*(Young’s Literal Translation)
*18While he is speaking these things to them, lo, a ruler having come, was bowing to him, saying that `My daughter just now died, but, having come, lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.’

Matthew 28:9*(Young’s Literal Translation)
*9and as they were going to tell to his disciples, then lo, Jesus met them, saying, `Hail!’ and they having come near, laid hold of his feet, and did bow to him.

Matthew 28:17*(Young’s Literal Translation)
*17and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver.

It is right and just that we bow or bend the knee before Our Brother Yeshua (pbwh).
Our Brother is our king, some would say lord.

Our Father reveals of Himself in the authority He gives to our brother, he is worthy.

Our Father is G-d Our Brother Yeshua (pbwh) taught us this as was taught by messengers before him.

Our Father loves us much, when we as nations were not doing well with the word of creation and understanding of His spirit he gave us of His own substance Yeshua (pbwh) so we can have life.

Our Father is G-d only G-d could do so much for me and Yeshua (pbwh) Our Brother told us to worship and pray to G-d His Father, Our Father.

Bow to Our Brother Yeshua (pbwh) teaching that you may obey and worship and pray to Our Father our G-d.

Well at least from this translation on these verses i would be convinced that their would be no error living its lesson.

oops edit, IMO Peter (pbuh) should not have allowed him self that that Our Father willed in Our Brother.