Tell me how Matthew 16:18 fits with the whole idea of a restoration church? Christ said that the “gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church”. JWs, Mormons, and others claim the early Church quickly went corrupt. Just tell me how a great apostasy wouldn’t pit itself against this passage.Jehovah’s Witnesses retain their Jewish roots. We are like the Jews in the first century who accepted Christ as the Messiah. There is one God and he is the Father of Jesus.
When Jesus was resurrected, the head of the church (Col 1:18) was released form Hades (DR=Hell).Tell me how Matthew 16:18 fits with the whole idea of a restoration church? Christ said that the “gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church”. JWs, Mormons, and others claim the early Church quickly went corrupt. Just tell me how a great apostasy wouldn’t pit itself against this passage.
That didn’t answer my question. Let me put it this way, what does it mean for the “gates of hell will not prevail against the Church?”When Jesus was resurrected, the head of the church (Col 1:18) was released form Hades (DR=Hell).
NJB Acts 2:31 he spoke with foreknowledge about the resurrection of the Christ: he is the one who was not abandoned to Hades, and whose body did not see corruption.
They became part of the body of Christ at Pentecost (you call this the mystical body). Jesus was given the keys to death and Hades and he will resurrect the Church (ie his body) at the last day.
NJB Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead, but he laid his right hand on me and said, 'Do not be afraid; it is I, the First and the Last; I am the Living One, 18 I was dead and look – I am alive for ever and ever, and I hold the keys of death and of Hades.
I did answer that. It means that the Church will be released from Hell and resurrected. Jesus has the keys. He was already resurrected, ans so the head of the Church is already released from Hell. Later the rest of his body, the Church, will be resurrected.That didn’t answer my question. Let me put it this way, what does it mean for the “gates of hell will not prevail against the Church?”
**How do I know that Judaism is true and what actual evidence do I have? Canto, the question is excellent and I do have an equally excellent answer, which will need only your honesty to understand.The point I’m getting at is that you say that Jesus is not divine, that there’s mythology etc, etc. Well how do you know that Judaism is truth? What actual evidence do you have? How do you know that God is one for example, aside from people having believed it for ages?
Jehovah’s Witnesses have no Jewish roots. Their roots are Christian. There were no Christians at the time of Jesus. They started about 30 years after Jesus had been gone. And they started with Paul in Antioch. Read Acts 11:26. Jesus never saw a single Christian in his lifetime. Indeed there is only one God and He never had a son with a woman because there is no such a thing as Pagan Mythology in Judaism.Jehovah’s Witnesses retain their Jewish roots. We are like the Jews in the first century who accepted Christ as the Messiah. There is one God and he is the Father of Jesus.
Okay, in that case, Jesus’ Faith was incorrect and false, because as we all know, his Faith was Judaism. This that you say everyday at Mass in the Credo that you believe in one God, it does not mean a lot because Muslims have been saying for almost 2000 years that Muhammad was the last prophet of God, and I am sure you don’t believe them, do you?Five thousand years of Jewish Monotheism you said in an earlier post. And Catholics believe in one God too as I noted.
I believe in one God… - we say everyday at Mass in the Credo
You say you know this by history, but how do you know the history is correct? Just because people have believed somethying for 5000 years doesn’t make it correct. Catholicism looks to history too as do other relgions. The age of the Jewish faith doesn’t neccesarily make it currently correct.
Look - you make Catholicism out to be false - mythology etc but can’t prove Judaism at the same time. We believe different things, that’s life and beliefs must be respected, that’s cool.**How do I know that Judaism is true and what actual evidence do I have? Canto, the question is excellent and I do have an equally excellent answer, which will need only your honesty to understand.
You love Jesus and you even consider him Divine. Okay, during his lifetime in this world, Jesus was a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism. Do you think Jesus would be a member of a false Faith? I didn’t think so. I could list here a few more evidences, if you were not a Catholic, but being yourself a Catholic, I have given you the most important evidence: Judaism as the Faith of Jesus.
Now, with regards to being God absolutely One, you can read Deuteronomy 6:4. And to make it stronger in your case as a Catholic, you can read Mark 12:29. Both quotations speak of God being One and the Only Lord.**
God is the one and only Lord, AMEN!!! And you bring up a wonderful point - Judaism is the Faith of Jesus. And when we get to the parable of the Wicked Tenants, we see what happens to Judaism. This is also hinted at in the Parable of the Prodigal Son.**How do I know that Judaism is true and what actual evidence do I have? Canto, the question is excellent and I do have an equally excellent answer, which will need only your honesty to understand.
You love Jesus and you even consider him Divine. Okay, during his lifetime in this world, Jesus was a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism. Do you think Jesus would be a member of a false Faith? I didn’t think so. I could list here a few more evidences, if you were not a Catholic, but being yourself a Catholic, I have given you the most important evidence: Judaism as the Faith of Jesus.**
Now, with regards to being God absolutely One, you can read Deuteronomy 6:4. And to make it stronger in your case as a Catholic, you can read Mark 12:29. Both quotations speak of God being One and the Only Lord.
Christians of the 1st century were at first Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah. They broke ranks with Jews who did not accept Jesus. That is no reason to throw out centuries of true worship, all of it leading up to its fulfillment in Jesus.God is the one and only Lord, AMEN!!! And you bring up a wonderful point - Judaism is the Faith of Jesus. And when we get to the parable of the Wicked Tenants, we see what happens to Judaism. This is also hinted at in the Parable of the Prodigal Son.
When did I say throw out the true worship of the Jews? The parable of the Sowers talks of leaving the vineyard with different tenants. It doesn’t say get rid of the vineyard.Christians of the 1st century were at first Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah. They broke ranks with Jews who did not accept Jesus. That is no reason to throw out centuries of true worship, all of it leading up to its fulfillment in Jesus.
Ah, but we have a new covenant.Likewise, true Christianity today will be very similar to that of Jews who accepted Christ. The truths as to the oneness and absolute unity of God is not something that would have changed.
A new covenant does not change the truth about absolute monotheism.When did I say throw out the true worship of the Jews? The parable of the Sowers talks of leaving the vineyard with different tenants. It doesn’t say get rid of the vineyard.
Likewise, the Prodigal Son ends with the Father pleading with the oldest son (Israel) to join him and his son (the Gentiles) at the feast (The New Church).
Ah, but we have a new covenant.
Think of it this way. The Jews under the Egyptian rule were members of the Abrahamic Covenant. If, say, the tribe of Benjamin, upon traveling to Mt. Sinai were to reject Moses and the Covenant that he brought in, they’d still be a part of the Abrahamic Faith. The Same people as they ever were, with the same faith. But they didn’t cross over into the New Covenant, and hence, wouldn’t have been allowed into the Promised Land.
Sadly, our brother Jews did not follow Jesus into the New Covenant. Christians did not throw off their Jewish Roots as they followed Jesus into the New Covenant. We still carry those roots and it can be seen very clearly in the Catholic Mass.
I wasn’t aware that I said it did.A new covenant does not change the truth about absolute monotheism.
That is because I am waiting for your comment on what I brought up first:I wasn’t aware that I said it did.
But… you didn’t address a single point of my post.
… and I don’t deny that the Jews, bound by the Covenant, had anything other than a true worship (… well, had the opportunity to worship as God wanted them to. The rest was up to them).That is because I am waiting for your comment on what I brought up first:Christians of the 1st century were at first Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah. They broke ranks with Jews who did not accept Jesus. That is no reason to throw out centuries of true worship, all of it leading up to its fulfillment in Jesus.
I thought Catholics taught about the One God. It didn’t change, it just was fully revealed in Jesus Christ. God, our One True God, is made up of the three Persons of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Its the way the Catholic Church has prayed and worshiped since the first century, even alongside our brother Jews.Likewise, true Christianity today will be very similar to that of Jews who accepted Christ. The truths as to the oneness and absolute unity of God is not something that would have changed.
It was never revealed in the New Testament that God is three persons. My point was that Christianity in the 1st century was Judaism which accepted the Messiah.… and I don’t deny that the Jews, bound by the Covenant, had anything other than a true worship (… well, had the opportunity to worship as God wanted them to. The rest was up to them).
I thought Catholics taught about the One God. It didn’t change, it just was fully revealed in Jesus Christ. God, our One True God, is made up of the three Persons of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Its the way the Catholic Church has prayed and worshiped since the first century, even alongside our brother Jews.
I don’t think Cornelius would agree with that. Christianity was the fulfillment of numerous Covenant promises. One was the unity of the Gentiles with the Jews. Judaism in the 1st century rejected this, along with the Messiah. Judaism, like my earlier example of the Benjamins rejecting the Mosaic Covenant - a fictional account to demonstrate a point. The Jews languished in the Old Covenant, at least those who didn’t convert. Those who did, reached the fulfillment of Judaism.It was never revealed in the New Testament that God is three persons. My point was that Christianity in the 1st century was Judaism which accepted the Messiah.
The first Christians were Jews and Cornelius was the first gentile. However Jewish practices were still very much a part of Christian life. It was not until much later that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised. That was one of the big controversies in the 1st century. There was notably no controversy as to the SHEMA and the oneness of God. Bible writers continued to consider the Father to be the one God of Jewish/Christian monotheism.I don’t think Cornelius would agree with that. Christianity was the fulfillment of numerous Covenant promises. One was the unity of the Gentiles with the Jews. Judaism in the 1st century rejected this, along with the Messiah. Judaism, like my earlier example of the Benjamins rejecting the Mosaic Covenant - a fictional account to demonstrate a point. The Jews languished in the Old Covenant, at least those who didn’t convert. Those who did, reached the fulfillment of Judaism.
It was within a few years… maybe 5 before the Jerusalem Council rectified that.The first Christians were Jews and Cornelius was the first gentile. However Jewish practices were still very much a part of Christian life. It was not until much later that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised.
There is one God. The first major controversy among Christians seemed to be the nature of Jesus. These heresies were dealt with, but sadly they seem to spring up from time to time.That was one of the big controversies in the 1st century. There was notably no controversy as to the SHEMA and the oneness of God. Bible writers continued to consider the Father to be the one God of Jewish/Christian monotheism.
I’m sorry. I’d much rather see what the Catholic Church teaches. Thanks, though.See my link on monotheism for those passages.
I dont doubt that, in my post i offeredSt. John tells us that some sins are deadly and even prayer doesn’t help them. So yes, there are sins and there are SINS.
The action by me here is the same regardless to the sin, My Fathers word and my actions of love is my judge. How i live here will be the same to all sinners. rebuke the sin and not the sinner. I am commanded love my enemys.If there is difference in sins My Father will be just according to His mercy we have shown unto others. The action in my heart will be the same. The Law is the Law.
Originally Posted by Steven John View Post
If she tells me to confess my sins she is on the money, even the non believers know this.
I thought the word governed us and the church was a place we came together being every where as one body. My Father calls me to submit to Him not other parts of the body, Yeshua (pbwh) witness living My Fathers word, Yeshua (pbwh) My King…
I understand what you are saying and while i am not against it the people of the early church in the book of acts did not have the 70 plus books we do. They were sharing and guiding probably a lot of people that could not even read. No doubt the Church still does this for those who seek, thats what we each do as a parts of that body.Then you haven’t read much of Acts and St. Paul’s Epistles. They are full of times where the Church is guiding the people, setting up rules ("… what you bind on earth is bound in heaven") and even unmaking the rules they set up ("… what you loose in earth will be loosed in heaven")