Is Jesus still on the Cross?

[minkymurph]

As far as I understand the sacrifice of the Mass, the crucifixion of Jesus was not a one of event in the past. The ‘bloody’ sacrifice of the cross, the human body of Jesus offered, was once as human. However, he rose and as Hebrews says, he continually pleads at the right hand of the Father. He continually offers his sacrifice in heaven, not in the ‘bloody’ manner, the human body sacrifice, but in the ‘unbloody’’ manner. He is not in the human sense offered again and again by the human form of crucifixion, but his body is in heaven being continually offered for the atonement of sin and during the Mass, he communes with us in that sense.

The crucifixion was not a one off event in human history. The sacrifice of Christ is an eternal sacrifice because Christ rose, body and soul, to heaven and he continually offered on the heavenly altar of God for us and with us. The Mass is a re-inactment of the human sacrifice during which, Christ communes with us. Hebrews also makes reference to those who by apostacy, ‘impale the son of man afresh’ so in a greater sense than the human body sacrifice of the cross, he is eternally crucified for the atonement of sin. We where not alive when Christ was on earth but he is still offered eternally on our behalf.

Therefore, in a sense Christ is always on the cross and offered in our behalf, but not in the ‘bloody’ manner, in the ‘unbloody’ manner. Therefore, the sacrifice of the cross is continual.

Hope this makes sense. I may not have explained it as well as some others have done.

 

[Reformed]

but he still is crucified in his brothers and sisters who try to stay true to Him…

He lives in us… and so he suffers with us (persecution, hatred, etc…).

i often wonder why God doesn’t put an end to the whole world… according to St. Faustina, he wants to… Mary holds him back, apparently… Mary and the prayers of the ones who love Jesus…

Please help me understand your posting regards to St. Faustina and Mary. Are you saying Mary is sovereign over God?

 

[ryanclewis]

What is this discussion about? What exactly does it mean for Jesus to be on or off of the cross?

 

[notsmart]

What is this discussion about? What exactly does it mean for Jesus to be on or off of the cross?

Some say he never was on the Cross. Some say he never existed. Some say he was only a prophet. Some say he was a leader of a rebellious cult. Some say he was God who came to us in the flesh, as a babe in a manger, born of a virgin, the savior, the messiah, the son of God, the truth, the way, and the life, the bread of life, the I AM, the …
And he was scourged, and crucifyed, died and rose again and will judge all the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
And comes to us now as a fragile host, just as fragile as the babe he was in the manger
Who do you say he is?

 

[ryanclewis]

Some say he never was on the Cross. Some say he never existed. Some say he was only a prophet. Some say he was a leader of a rebellious cult. Some say he was God who came to us in the flesh, as a babe in a manger, born of a virgin, the savior, the messiah, the son of God, the truth, the way, and the life, the bread of life, the I AM, the …
And he was scourged, and crucifyed, died and rose again and will judge all the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
And comes to us now as a fragile host, just as fragile as the babe he was in the manger
Who do you say he is?

I say say he was God who came to us in the flesh, as a babe in a manger, born of a virgin, the savior, the messiah, the son of God, the truth, the way, and the life, the bread of life, the I AM…

But what does that have to do with this topic?

 

[notsmart]

I say say he was God who came to us in the flesh, as a babe in a manger, born of a virgin, the savior, the messiah, the son of God, the truth, the way, and the life, the bread of life, the I AM…

But what does that have to do with this topic?

Is he with us always?

 

[zografou]

Is he with us always?

Absolutely! His own words!

…Is it not written in The Scripture than He was taken down from the Cross and taken to the sepulcre?

And ressurected?

And ascended into Heaven?

Is He sitting at the right hand of the Father and yet still with us?
Absolutely!

He clearly is not still *physically crucified on *the cross…Though it is absolutely certain that the precious and life-giving Cross still bears His Divine Power and Mercy!

A Great and Holy Mystery indeed!

 

[brkn1]

As far as I understand the sacrifice of the Mass, the crucifixion of Jesus was not a one of event in the past. The ‘bloody’ sacrifice of the cross, the human body of Jesus offered, was once as human. However, he rose and as Hebrews says, he continually pleads at the right hand of the Father. He continually offers his sacrifice in heaven, not in the ‘bloody’ manner, the human body sacrifice, but in the ‘unbloody’’ manner. He is not in the human sense offered again and again by the human form of crucifixion, but his body is in heaven being continually offered for the atonement of sin and during the Mass, he communes with us in that sense.

The crucifixion was not a one off event in human history. The sacrifice of Christ is an eternal sacrifice because Christ rose, body and soul, to heaven and he continually offered on the heavenly altar of God for us and with us. The Mass is a re-inactment of the human sacrifice during which, Christ communes with us. Hebrews also makes reference to those who by apostacy, ‘impale the son of man afresh’ so in a greater sense than the human body sacrifice of the cross, he is eternally crucified for the atonement of sin. We where not alive when Christ was on earth but he is still offered eternally on our behalf.

Therefore, in a sense Christ is always on the cross and offered in our behalf, but not in the ‘bloody’ manner, in the ‘unbloody’ manner. Therefore, the sacrifice of the cross is continual.

Hope this makes sense. I may not have explained it as well as some others have done.

Jesus is no longer on the cross. “It is finished!”
Jesus never was a “Victim” either. He went willingly, which means He did not go as a “Victim” much less an “eternal Victim”.

If the Mass was a “re-enactment” as some claim, then those offering it would be “impaling the Son afresh”. This can not be dismissed with the “bloodless sacrifice” nonsense that can not purge sin. Blood must be shed to remit sin.
The idea of Jesus being “eternally crucified” in humiliation would not allow for the resurrection, which is the Father’s acceptance of Jesus’ ONE sacrifice that is finished. The Father’s acceptance is critical or we do not have our sins attoned for.

Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father, which means that His one redeeming sacrifice is finished and accepted by the Father. Jesus is now acting as our Mediator based on what He once did as High Priest on the cross and in the Heavenly Temple.

 

[notsmart]

Do this, in memory of me

He did not say do it one time.

 

[LilyM]

“in the midst of the ancients, a Lamb standing as it were slain, …” Revelation 5:6 - even in Heaven Jesus, the Lamb is still ‘as it were slain’. Calvary is an eternal event, still happening, which is the reason, the only possible reason, that the Mass is NOT a mere re-enactment of it.

 

[Reformed]

Jesus is no longer on the cross. “It is finished!”
Jesus never was a “Victim” either. He went willingly, which means He did not go as a “Victim” much less an “eternal Victim”.

If the Mass was a “re-enactment” as some claim, then those offering it would be “impaling the Son afresh”. This can not be dismissed with the “bloodless sacrifice” nonsense that can not purge sin. Blood must be shed to remit sin.
The idea of Jesus being “eternally crucified” in humiliation would not allow for the resurrection, which is the Father’s acceptance of Jesus’ ONE sacrifice that is finished. The Father’s acceptance is critical or we do not have our sins attoned for.

Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father, which means that His one redeeming sacrifice is finished and accepted by the Father. Jesus is now acting as our Mediator based on what He once did as High Priest on the cross and in the Heavenly Temple.

Aloha!

 

[jean8]

i would like to hear your answer to this question…

Thanks…

No. Jesus’ last words from the cross before he died was “It is finished.” Jn.19:30
He’s at the right hand of God the Father.

God bless,
jean8

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
Why would he still be on the cross? He was taken down and put in a tomb.**

And on the third day rose from the dead in His glorified human nature.

 

[Ridgerunner]

God’s thought is his act. We, who have thoughts that fade, and who live on a timeline like so many connected dots, cannot comprehend the timelessness of God or His eternal “present”. Necessarily, God intended the Crucifixion and the Resurrection from all time and into eternity. Since Jesus was and is fully human, and, consequently, was on our “timeline”, His physical suffering in that continuum ended on the cross. As He is fully Divine, and thus “immune” to time, His suffering is fully present to Him, and thus to the Father from all eternity and into all eternity. With His institution of the Eucharist, He told us this, and gave us His “eternal present” thereby, so we could know that He did not go through a one time event for us, but that He has incorporated His sacrifice for us into His very Being. It is an act of love whose vastness we can only perceive in a limited way. But that perception is renewed for us in every Mass, and every Mass should be the occasion for our contemplating, even in our limited way, that mystery.

 

[Cinette]

God, the Father is “everywhere”, Jesus, at least in “tangible form” is not everyewhere… Jesus is in the tabernacles of the Catholic Churches throughout the world…

This statement of yours is confusing. Can one separate the Trinity? Where the Father is so is the Son and the Spirit, surely?



:dts:

 

[Cinette]

As far as I understand the sacrifice of the Mass, the crucifixion of Jesus was not a one of event in the past. The ‘bloody’ sacrifice of the cross, the human body of Jesus offered, was once as human. However, he rose and as Hebrews says, he continually pleads at the right hand of the Father. He continually offers his sacrifice in heaven, not in the ‘bloody’ manner, the human body sacrifice, but in the ‘unbloody’’ manner. He is not in the human sense offered again and again by the human form of crucifixion, but his body is in heaven being continually offered for the atonement of sin and during the Mass, he communes with us in that sense.

The crucifixion was not a one off event in human history. The sacrifice of Christ is an eternal sacrifice because Christ rose, body and soul, to heaven and he continually offered on the heavenly altar of God for us and with us. The Mass is a re-inactment of the human sacrifice during which, Christ communes with us. Hebrews also makes reference to those who by apostacy, ‘impale the son of man afresh’ so in a greater sense than the human body sacrifice of the cross, he is eternally crucified for the atonement of sin. We where not alive when Christ was on earth but he is still offered eternally on our behalf.

Therefore, in a sense Christ is always on the cross and offered in our behalf, but not in the ‘bloody’ manner, in the ‘unbloody’ manner. Therefore, the sacrifice of the cross is continual.

Hope this makes sense. I may not have explained it as well as some others have done.

I thought Jesus died on the cross for our sins ONCE for all time.

Even if we came after the cruxificion He died for our sins “in advance” as it were.


:ehh:

 

[Reformed]

I thought Jesus died on the cross for our sins ONCE for all time.

Even if we came after the cruxificion He died for our sins “in advance” as it were.


:ehh:

I agree!

Heb 10 - Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All

10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Consequently, when Christ [1] came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ [2] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”

17 then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

The Full Assurance of Faith
19 Therefore, brothers, [3] since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, 33 sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. 34 For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. 35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. 37 For,

“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38 but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,
my soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

i would like to hear your answer to this question…

Thanks…

No. Of course not.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Jesus is no longer on the cross. “It is finished!”
Jesus never was a “Victim” either. He went willingly, which means He did not go as a “Victim” much less an “eternal Victim”.

Jesus made a decision to do His Father’s will… which was that Jesus be the sacrificial victim. He was not “victimized” in the sense that He was taken advantage of without his consent. But He most certainly did consent to be the victim whose sacrifice would reconcile us with God.
brkn:

If the Mass was a “re-enactment” as some claim, then those offering it would be “impaling the Son afresh”. This can not be dismissed with the “bloodless sacrifice” nonsense that can not purge sin. Blood must be shed to remit sin.

First, the mass is not a “re-enactment” of anything, much less a re-crucifiction. It is the re-presentation of the same sacrificial offering - “This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.” Jesus does not get “crucified anew” - but the presentation of body and blood is made real for us in the mass.
brkn:

The idea of Jesus being “eternally crucified” in humiliation would not allow for the resurrection, which is the Father’s acceptance of Jesus’ ONE sacrifice that is finished.

The mass is not an eternally repeated crucifixion. It is an eternally repeated offering of the one sacrifice that has efficacy - the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
brkn:

The Father’s acceptance is critical or we do not have our sins attoned for.

No one will argue this point with you. We all agree that the acceptance is critical. The mass acknowledges the efficacy of His sacrificial work.
brkn:

Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father, which means that His one redeeming sacrifice is finished and accepted by the Father. Jesus is now acting as our Mediator based on what He once did as High Priest on the cross and in the Heavenly Temple.

I agree that relationally, Jesus is at the right hand of the Father in terms of his authority. However, Jesus is also now High Priest as well, eternally offering the Father the acceptable sacrifice of his body and blood. He is not being re-crucified. His sacrifice is being re-presented in an unbloody manner, through the offering of bread and wine. The mass is our participation in that offering by Christ Son-to-Father reconciliation by which Jesus mediates our relationship with God.

Your comments evidence that you have some incorrect notions about what the mass is, and what it is not. I think you need to understand the Catholic position regarding the mass, so that you are not arguing against phantoms or straw men.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[brkn1]

Jesus made a decision to do His Father’s will… which was that Jesus be the sacrificial victim. He was not “victimized” in the sense that He was taken advantage of without his consent. But He most certainly did consent to be the victim whose sacrifice would reconcile us with God.

First, the mass is not a “re-enactment” of anything, much less a re-crucifiction. It is the re-presentation of the same sacrificial offering - “This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.” Jesus does not get “crucified anew” - but the presentation of body and blood is made real for us in the mass.

The mass is not an eternally repeated crucifixion. It is an eternally repeated offering of the one sacrifice that has efficacy - the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

No one will argue this point with you. We all agree that the acceptance is critical. The mass acknowledges the efficacy of His sacrificial work.

I agree that relationally, Jesus is at the right hand of the Father in terms of his authority. However, Jesus is also now High Priest as well, eternally offering the Father the acceptable sacrifice of his body and blood. He is not being re-crucified. His sacrifice is being re-presented in an unbloody manner, through the offering of bread and wine. The mass is our participation in that offering by Christ Son-to-Father reconciliation by which Jesus mediates our relationship with God.

Your comments evidence that you have some incorrect notions about what the mass is, and what it is not. I think you need to understand the Catholic position regarding the mass, so that you are not arguing against phantoms or straw men.

Peace,
-Robert

One of the problems with your presentation is that an “unbloody” sacrifice can not effect the remission of sin. The actual shedding of blood (death of the sacrifice) is the biblical requirement for the remission of sin. Paul was very clear about that requirement.

Jesus made that Offering Himself. We could never participate in the Perfect Offering as “co-offerers”, since such an Offering requires a Perfect Priest to be accepted by the Father. Our imperfection would ruin the offering. We can only receive the benefit of Christ’ Offering, not participate in the actual Offering. We do not shed our blood in that offering either. That is the role of Jesus alone as our Perfect Redeemer.