Is Jesus the Archangel Michael?

[rabarker]

My Brother-In-Law is a Seventh Day Adventist and has been visiting us for the last couple months. He converted to Seventh Day Adventist about 15 years ago so we’ve been having a few discussions regarding his beliefs. The latest discussion was about Jesus being Michael the Archangel. He referenced Daniel 8:11-25, 10:13-21, 12:1, Jude 1:9, 1 Thes 4:16, and Joshua 5:14-15 as “proof”.

The only thing I could not easily counter is Daniel 12:1. He says I’m making too many assumptions that can’t be proven.

Any suggestions?

 

[Ignatius]

My Brother-In-Law is a Seventh Day Adventist and has been visiting us for the last couple months. He converted to Seventh Day Adventist about 15 years ago so we’ve been having a few discussions regarding his beliefs. The latest discussion was about Jesus being Michael the Archangel. He referenced Daniel 8:11-25, 10:13-21, 12:1, Jude 1:9, 1 Thes 4:16, and Joshua 5:14-15 as “proof”.

The only thing I could not easily counter is Daniel 12:1. He says I’m making too many assumptions that can’t be proven.

Any suggestions?

No, that is an innovation started by Jehovah’s witnesses and, unfortunately, being copied by some Protestant denominations.

 

[Micosil]

My Brother-In-Law is a Seventh Day Adventist and has been visiting us for the last couple months. He converted to Seventh Day Adventist about 15 years ago so we’ve been having a few discussions regarding his beliefs. The latest discussion was about Jesus being Michael the Archangel. He referenced Daniel 8:11-25, 10:13-21, 12:1, Jude 1:9, 1 Thes 4:16, and Joshua 5:14-15 as “proof”.

The only thing I could not easily counter is Daniel 12:1. He says I’m making too many assumptions that can’t be proven.

Any suggestions?

John 8:57-59

John 10:33

Matthew 9:1-8

Luke 5:17-26

 

[Peregrinans]

From the Gospel of John: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. Jn 1:1-3.

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth: we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.” Jn 1:14

So in sum, Jesus is God, not the angel Michael, Gabrial or any other, for the simple reason that angels are not God.

 

[Casilda]

No, Jesus is God, angels were created BY God.

 

[Avdima]

No, that is an innovation started by Jehovah’s witnesses and, unfortunately, being copied by some Protestant denominations.

No the Jehovah Witnesses started about 10 years after the Seventh Day Adventists, So the Adventists held that belief before the Jehovah Witnesses.

One of the many fruits of going Bible Only!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

One of the many fruits of going Bible Only!

If they actually went by the Bible there’s no way they could arrive at this conclusion. This is 100% man-made nonsense…

 

[rabarker]

I DO NOT think, even for a second, that Jesus is Michael.

The Seventh Day Adventists claim Jesus appeared in the Old Testament as Michael the Archangel.
My Brother-In-Law claims that Daniel 12:1-3 proves it since Daniel had a vision of Gabriel telling him that Michael will come at the end.
Dan 12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time; but at that time your people shall be delivered, every one whose name shall be found written in the book,”
Dan 12:2 " And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Dan 12:3 “And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.”

Apparently, I can’t grasp the meaning of this vision well enough to explain it to him. I’m hoping someone else can steer me in the right direction.

 

[Dpoc41]

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels has he ever said,
“Sit at my right hand*until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?

 

[adf417]

The only thing I could not easily counter is Daniel 12:1. He says I’m making too many assumptions that can’t be proven.

Everybody interpreting the bible for themselves gets to use this conclusion if they don’t want to answer the hard questions and consider an alternative position but if he were trying to use this in the early church, you know, before the bible existed as we know it today, between the time of the apostles and the formation of the canon in 397, what would his proof be?

Peace!!!

 

[rabarker]

Everybody interpreting the bible for themselves gets to use this conclusion if they don’t want to answer the hard questions and consider an alternative position but if he were trying to use this in the early church, you know, before the bible existed as we know it today, between the time of the apostles and the formation of the canon in 397, what would his proof be?

Peace!!!

He has no other proof. The fact that it says Michael will arise and not Jesus is enough proof for him since he knows Jesus is the Messiah then He must be Michael as well.

Thanks guys. I’ll keep digging at this. There’s no way I can just let it go and give up.

 

[rabarker]

John 8:57-59, John 10:33, Matthew 9:1-8, Luke 5:17-26

He believes Jesus is God. His point is that Jesus is also Michael (in disguise sorta) since his time had not come even to be born yet, He was referred to as Michael the Archangel.

I know. This sounds ridiculous but, he’s convinced.

 

[porthos11]

My Brother-In-Law is a Seventh Day Adventist and has been visiting us for the last couple months. He converted to Seventh Day Adventist about 15 years ago so we’ve been having a few discussions regarding his beliefs. The latest discussion was about Jesus being Michael the Archangel. He referenced Daniel 8:11-25, 10:13-21, 12:1, Jude 1:9, 1 Thes 4:16, and Joshua 5:14-15 as “proof”.

The only thing I could not easily counter is Daniel 12:1. He says I’m making too many assumptions that can’t be proven.

Any suggestions?

Wait a minute: that doesn’t sound right. Seventh Day Adventists are Trinitarian and believe in the divinity of Christ. Despite their anti-Catholicism and odd obsession with end-time prophecy and speculation, SDA’s are Christians.

If he actually believes this, he is going against what the SDA community teaches.
adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/articles/official-statements/28Beliefs-Web.pdf

 

[bitznbitez]

He believes Jesus is God. His point is that Jesus is also Michael (in disguise sorta) since his time had not come even to be born yet, He was referred to as Michael the Archangel.

I know. This sounds ridiculous but, he’s convinced.

Thats pretty standard SDA teaching. Rather than argue see if he’ll pray the prayer to St. Michael with you since “its Jesus and not a saint”

 

[Micosil]

He believes Jesus is God. His point is that Jesus is also Michael (in disguise sorta) since his time had not come even to be born yet, He was referred to as Michael the Archangel.

I know. This sounds ridiculous but, he’s convinced.

So, in Hebrews 1:6, where it says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”, he worships himself?

And Jude 1:9 has the archangel Michael refusing to pronounce judgement on Satan, instead saying “The Lord rebuke you.” If Jesus is both God and Michael, why didn’t Michael directly rebuke Satan?

I think these should be things your friend thinks over. There is absolute no Biblical basis for Jesus being both God and Michael.

These sorts of heresies are nothing new; Arianism had the Holy Spirit as a person, or a high-ranking angel.

Wait a minute: that doesn’t sound right. Seventh Day Adventists are Trinitarian and believe in the divinity of Christ. Despite their anti-Catholicism and odd obsession with end-time prophecy and speculation, SDA’s are Christians.

If he actually believes this, he is going against what the SDA community teaches.
adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/articles/official-statements/28Beliefs-Web.pdf

This is also what I thought, but on doing some research, this is what I uncovered.

Seventh-day Adventists have traditionally identified Michael the archangel of Jude 9 and Revelation 12:7 as Jesus Christ. This has led to the criticism that Adventism denies the divinity of Christ, a charge which Adventists responded to in chapter 8 of Questions on Doctrine.

"We believe that the term 'Michael' is but one of the many titles applied to the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead. But such a view does not in any way conflict with our belief in His full deity and eternal pre-existence, nor does it in the least disparage His person and work."[57]

 

[Micosil]

Wait a minute: that doesn’t sound right. Seventh Day Adventists are Trinitarian and believe in the divinity of Christ. Despite their anti-Catholicism and odd obsession with end-time prophecy and speculation, SDA’s are Christians.

If he actually believes this, he is going against what the SDA community teaches.
adventist.org/fileadmin/adventist.org/files/articles/official-statements/28Beliefs-Web.pdf

This is also what I thought, but on doing some research, this is what I uncovered.

Seventh-day Adventists have traditionally identified Michael the archangel of Jude 9 and Revelation 12:7 as Jesus Christ. This has led to the criticism that Adventism denies the divinity of Christ, a charge which Adventists responded to in chapter 8 of Questions on Doctrine.

"We believe that the term 'Michael' is but one of the many titles applied to the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead. But such a view does not in any way conflict with our belief in His full deity and eternal pre-existence, nor does it in the least disparage His person and work."[57]

 

[bitznbitez]

This is also what I thought, but on doing some research, this is what I uncovered.

SDAs started out in the mid 1800s and non trinitarians was one of the things floating around in US protestantism back then. Their leaders and publications intiially were anti trinitarian. They also adopted this idea Michael was Christ then. Since that time they have become fully trinitarian, at least formally, but never went back and decided Michael wasn’t Jesus. Partly because their prophetess made comments that would be contradicted if they declared it otherwise, if memory serves.

Even though they are fully trinitarian formally there are to this day pockets among them that refuse to accept it. They are the minority.

 

[adf417]

He has no other proof. The fact that it says Michael will arise and not Jesus is enough proof for him since he knows Jesus is the Messiah then He must be Michael as well.

Thanks guys. I’ll keep digging at this. There’s no way I can just let it go and give up.

If he has no other proof and the bible, as we know it, did not exist till 397, what would he use as proof in the year 300 to make his point?

Peace!!!

 

[Pythons]

As another said earlier in the thread the JW’s splintered off the “Adventists” not necessarily SDA’s. Here is a short break-down of it.
A Baptist Preacher named William Miller predicted the definite timing of Christ’s 2nd Coming & in doing so attracted a large following of Christians from “many” different religions.
Eventually Mr. Miller’s teachings were proven to be false teachings when Jesus didn’t show up ( for the 2nd time ).
The second date provided for Jesus to arrive was provided by George Storrs ( a proto Jehovah’s Witness if you will ).

After it was realized that everything about predicting the definite timing of the 2nd Coming was bunk ( these people should have known this from Jesus’ own teaching on the subject ). The “Millerites” disbanded and returned to their former Churches leaving ONLY the anti-Trinitarians.
Soon these anti-Trinitarians started to squabble over what were and were not true teachings - they broke up into factions going slightly different directions. This is where we get the:

A) JW’s.
B) SDA’s
C) Christadelphians
D) WWCOG

The above groups teach that Jesus was “subject to moral corruption” & as such yearned for sin but though prayer and dedication to His Father Jesus was able to resist these temptations and eventually become “Christ”.

The teaching goes on to say that “IF” Jesus would have sinned then God would have insured that Jesus rotted in the tomb and eternally become as if He never existed in the 1st place.

As if the above wasn’t bad enough Jesus is also claimed to actually be Michael the archangel.

Ellen White taught both the above points with militant, feverish velocity.

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels has he ever said,
“Sit at my right hand*until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?

AMEN It’s just the little details, gems like this
that escape people who create and spread error