Is Jesus the Old Testament God?

[R_C]

I forgot to mention that it would also be a good idea to read the writings of St. Augustine of Hippo against the error of the gnostic sect of the Manicheans - related to the more ancient one of Marcionism. Their vision of God is wrapped up in the following words attributed to the founder of that group, Mani:

The devil god which created the world was the Jewish Jahweh. It is the Prince of Darkness who spoke with Moses, the Jews and their priests. Thus the Christians, the Jews, and the Pagans are involved in the same error when they worship this God. For he leads them astray in the lusts he taught them. Now, he who spoke with Moses, the Jews, and the priests he says is the archont of Darkness, and the Christians, Jews, and pagans are one and the same, as they revere the same god. For in his aspirations he seduces them, as he is not the god of truth. And so therefore all those who put their hope in the god who spoke with Moses and the prophets have (this in store for themselves, namely) to be bound with him, because they did not put their hope in the god of truth. For that one spoke with them (only) according to their own aspirations.

It may be of some comfort to know that St. Augustine himself - a Doctor of the Church - for a long time held these ideas. He eventually learned the truth (that is, found the error in those teachings) and this is how he briefly describes it in his Confessions:

With great eagerness, then, I fastened upon the venerable writings of thy Spirit and principally upon the apostle Paul. I had thought that he sometimes contradicted himself and that the text of his teaching did not agree with the testimonies of the Law and the Prophets; but now all these doubts vanished away. And I saw that those pure words had but one face, and I learned to rejoice with trembling.

And Lactantius, Christian author of the III Century called by some the “Christian Cicero”, wrote in his * Divine Institutes*:

All Scripture is divided into two Testaments. What preceded the advent and passion of Christ’that is, the law and the prophets’is called the Old [Testament]; but what was written after his resurrection is named the New Testament. The Jews make use of the Old, we of the New. Yet, they are not dissonant. The New Testament is the fulfilling of the Old, and in both there is the same testator, even Christ who suffered death for us and made us heirs of his everlasting kingdom.

I also found a nice post on this very topic by senior apologist Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers here.

 

[brb3]

Why not Jesus? Couldnt he had spoken out against slavery and rules on slavery / sex slavery in the OT. Heros like Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. Others like Joshua committed genocide. Wasnt these crimes worth correcting?

Yes, and he did, via the Law of Love, Beatitudes ! Its in Matthew’s Gospel. Read it and tell me if it doesn’t address every possible error in society of 1st and 21st Centuries !

Do/can you fully follow them ? I doubt you can, w/o being a Christian, in full communion with Christ & Church.

 

[sirach2v4]

We see many examples of the “brutal” judgments of God in the Old Testament. I think these were given to be instructional, to show the justice of God.

The one I’m reading through right now is how 600,000 Jews were liberated from Egypt, from their slavery, but because they were not faithful to God, for the most part, only two of that original number finished the journey into the Promised Land.

We cannot judge God, plain and simple, end of discussion. So, we cannot, for example, know the eternal destiny of those Jews who died in the desert. Moses was one who didn’t make it to the promised land, but he seems to fare well in the NT (viz. the transfiguration account).

Bill Gates was interviewed on CBS news tonight, talking about his foundations that work to eliminate childhood disease and deaths. His foundation, along with the governments who he enlists in the fight, have made a huge difference over the last 20 years. But, so even today, there are millions of children who do not survive past the age of seven. The God of the OT is the same God of the NT, /q.e.d.

Let’s get one thing on the table in this discussion We must accept the judgments of God. I don’t have my Bible right here. In Sirach, there is a verse something like this, life and death, wealth and riches, good and bad, come from God.

And back in Exodus where I’ve been reading recently, there is a broad statement attributed to God (speaking to Moses) that whether a man is blind or is not, etc. etc. is a decision and action of God.

When Jesus was asked why a certain man was born blind, Jesus said it was so that the works of God might be revealed in him.

My God is a God who knows exactly what he is doing. (Consider the irony of so many martyrs who died for their faith – and the quip that if this is how God treats his friends, imagine how he is going to treat his enemies).

 

[Josephene]

Yet , there is the mention that the law of Old Testament was given by angels -

newadvent.org/summa/2098.htm ;

Other articles also discusses this in more lenght, under the title of ’ law as given by angels ’ - unsure how much of it is in accordance with teaching of The Church.

One of the major aims of the Old Law is thought to be , to prepare a line that was holy enough , to bring forth The Woman who would be the Mother of The Lord !

Thus , some of the genocides in OldTestament times and even other laws might have been events executed under angelic wisdom and foresight - they would have known what type to adversary the Jewish people were against , in the weakness of their sinful nature and thus possibly gave laws in accordance , trying to help and guide the chosen people .

 

[cap76]

MichaelHowling, TimothyH, Zecariaya,

Two thumbs up!!