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jesusfreak1234
Guest
If Jesus is God in the flesh why does he always ask “the father” for help? If they are truly one in the same then he is talking to himself…
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Robbinson
Guest
When God chose to walk among us in the flesh as Jesus, he chose to assume a human nature. While divine, Jesus lived as a man (albeit with the power to perform miracles through the strength of His faith and the power of God, the Father). The trinity is a difficult concept. If you ask who God is, He is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - if you ask what God is, He is a unity.
Just as a man and a woman become “one flesh” (echad), so God, while with three distinct natures, is “one” (echad). Note, the same Hebrew word is use the Shema (the Lord is our God, the Lord is “One” "echad’]) as in when man and woman (two people) unite in Genesis and become “one” flesh (echad).
If you wonder where the model of the family came from - it came from the nature of God who has been living as a family with ultimate love from the foundation of the universe.
Blessings,
Brian
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jesusfreak1234
Guest
Thanks for googles answer, but that doesn’t explain anything I asked I am assuming that none no one really knows then?
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thistle
Guest
If you want a discussion and answers please don’t insult the posters in advance.
I would be interested to know what your religion is. Your profile just states n/a. Your forum name could indicate you are some kind of Christian. Yes it makes a diffference to know who we are talking to as it can indicate motives for certain questions.
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NeedImprovement
Guest
Hi jesusfreak1234.
You might not have any answers due to the fact that you might not really have a clear question. I sincerely don’t mean that in a bad sense, it’s just that all throughout the bible, (NT) I can’t find “Jesus always asking the Father for help”. Actually, there’s only one time I can find in the Gospels,and that is during Christ’s Passion, where it might be construed as such; possibly in the garden of Gethsemene and more notably Matt 27:46 where our Blessed Lord is hanging on the Cross and crys out,“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
On the other hand, it is recounted more frequently in the scriptures that Jesus *speaks with or prays *to the Father…but this shouldn’t be mistaken as “always asking for help”, as St. John Vianney says - even for us, “prayer to God is conversation with a friend.”
As Robbinson said, one has to have a grasp on the concept of the Trinity … and as hinted by thistle, most Christians tend to have a basic understanding of this concept. In a sentence, there are three Persons in one God. So if each one is a person, then they can’t be talking to themselves when they talk to one another … right?
When a Catholic makes the sign of the cross, it is first of all a profession of faith. We say, “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”, as opposed to in the "names of "…etc… Three Persons - one Nature - God.
Jesus came to walk among us, to save us from sin and its consequences. To do this, He took upon Himself a human nature, although he was divine. There’s a fair amount of proof given to us humans in the bible that Jesus and his Father are both distinct persons. There is the Transfiguration, where not only the Father’s voice is heard from a cloud while Jesus is there with several disciples, but the Father also calls Jesus His “Son”.
It can be read at any of these references - Matt 17: 1-9 ; Mark 9: 2-8 ; Luke 9: 28-36 ; and St. Peter reiterates what he saw there in 2 Peter 1: 16-18 .
Additionally in the Baptism of Jesus [Matt 3: 16-17] we also hear the Father’s voice calling Jesus His Beloved and the Holy Spirit descends on Jesus in the form of a dove to prepare Him for his public mission. So all three “Persons” are manifested to us in that scene.
Maybe it’s more the wording of your question, because I can personally see how it might be interpreted as “talking to one’s self” where it pertains to Christ’s obedience.
Although we are only able to have an understanding of this from our weak human perspective: We are told that Christ was obedient,yet we often refer to something as being **the “will” of God **- **not the “wills” **of God. That in itself suggests a real transparency of will of the three Persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit … not so far, in purely imperfect human terms, from “talking to one’s self”.
The difference is Jesus also has a human nature. This means he had to have a human will. And that explains how Jesus could be obedient: He obeyed His divine will with His human will. If you can grasp that one - it will give new sense to the scriptures when you read them.
One more thing to bear in mind: While Jesus walked on this earth there was much interaction that went on between Jesus and the Father which is not recorded in the Gospels - it simply says he “spent the night in prayer with the Father”. The parts we read about recorded in the Gospel where Jesus speaks to the Father or the Father speaks to Him are written for us … they are meant to be examples for us …as Jesus himself indicates just before raising Lazarus from the dead:
John 11: 39-45
39 “Roll the stone aside,” Jesus told them. But Martha, the dead man’s sister, said, “Lord, by now the smell will be terrible because he has been dead for four days.” 40 Jesus responded, “Didn’t I tell you that you will see God’s glory if you believe?” 41 So they rolled the stone aside. Then Jesus looked up to heaven and said, “Father, thank you for hearing me. 42 You always hear me, but I said it out loud for the sake of all these people standing here, so they will believe you sent me.” 43 Then Jesus shouted, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 And Lazarus came out, bound in graveclothes, his face wrapped in a headcloth. Jesus told them, “Unwrap him and let him go!” 45 Many of the people who were with Mary believed in Jesus when they saw this happen.
God Bless you.
You might not have any answers due to the fact that you might not really have a clear question. I sincerely don’t mean that in a bad sense, it’s just that all throughout the bible, (NT) I can’t find “Jesus always asking the Father for help”. Actually, there’s only one time I can find in the Gospels,and that is during Christ’s Passion, where it might be construed as such; possibly in the garden of Gethsemene and more notably Matt 27:46 where our Blessed Lord is hanging on the Cross and crys out,“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
On the other hand, it is recounted more frequently in the scriptures that Jesus *speaks with or prays *to the Father…but this shouldn’t be mistaken as “always asking for help”, as St. John Vianney says - even for us, “prayer to God is conversation with a friend.”
As Robbinson said, one has to have a grasp on the concept of the Trinity … and as hinted by thistle, most Christians tend to have a basic understanding of this concept. In a sentence, there are three Persons in one God. So if each one is a person, then they can’t be talking to themselves when they talk to one another … right?
When a Catholic makes the sign of the cross, it is first of all a profession of faith. We say, “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”, as opposed to in the "names of "…etc… Three Persons - one Nature - God.
Jesus came to walk among us, to save us from sin and its consequences. To do this, He took upon Himself a human nature, although he was divine. There’s a fair amount of proof given to us humans in the bible that Jesus and his Father are both distinct persons. There is the Transfiguration, where not only the Father’s voice is heard from a cloud while Jesus is there with several disciples, but the Father also calls Jesus His “Son”.
It can be read at any of these references - Matt 17: 1-9 ; Mark 9: 2-8 ; Luke 9: 28-36 ; and St. Peter reiterates what he saw there in 2 Peter 1: 16-18 .
Additionally in the Baptism of Jesus [Matt 3: 16-17] we also hear the Father’s voice calling Jesus His Beloved and the Holy Spirit descends on Jesus in the form of a dove to prepare Him for his public mission. So all three “Persons” are manifested to us in that scene.
Maybe it’s more the wording of your question, because I can personally see how it might be interpreted as “talking to one’s self” where it pertains to Christ’s obedience.
Although we are only able to have an understanding of this from our weak human perspective: We are told that Christ was obedient,yet we often refer to something as being **the “will” of God **- **not the “wills” **of God. That in itself suggests a real transparency of will of the three Persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit … not so far, in purely imperfect human terms, from “talking to one’s self”.
The difference is Jesus also has a human nature. This means he had to have a human will. And that explains how Jesus could be obedient: He obeyed His divine will with His human will. If you can grasp that one - it will give new sense to the scriptures when you read them.
One more thing to bear in mind: While Jesus walked on this earth there was much interaction that went on between Jesus and the Father which is not recorded in the Gospels - it simply says he “spent the night in prayer with the Father”. The parts we read about recorded in the Gospel where Jesus speaks to the Father or the Father speaks to Him are written for us … they are meant to be examples for us …as Jesus himself indicates just before raising Lazarus from the dead:
John 11: 39-45
39 “Roll the stone aside,” Jesus told them. But Martha, the dead man’s sister, said, “Lord, by now the smell will be terrible because he has been dead for four days.” 40 Jesus responded, “Didn’t I tell you that you will see God’s glory if you believe?” 41 So they rolled the stone aside. Then Jesus looked up to heaven and said, “Father, thank you for hearing me. 42 You always hear me, but I said it out loud for the sake of all these people standing here, so they will believe you sent me.” 43 Then Jesus shouted, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 And Lazarus came out, bound in graveclothes, his face wrapped in a headcloth. Jesus told them, “Unwrap him and let him go!” 45 Many of the people who were with Mary believed in Jesus when they saw this happen.
God Bless you.
T
TheDoctor
Guest
Hi Jesusfreak1234 and welcome to the forums! Nice to have you here. It helps for me to keep it simple:First, I know that Jesus in His divine nature is part of the triune God - Father/Son/Holy Spirit that existed as three in one from the beginning of time.
Then, I know that Jesus in His human nature came to us through the Virgin Mary around 33 B.C., but he was both fully God and fully human.
As fully God, Jesus did not need to speak to the Father for He and the Father were one. (See John 10:30 and John 12:45). As fully human, Jesus was our model of faith and prayer. In his human nature, he showed us how to pray and approach the Father. So in the Bible when you see Jesus “talking” to the Father, look at the context. You will see that he is doing so from his Human nature for our benefit.
Even in his time of agony Jesus does not abandon his Human nature, in fact, he offers up one of the greatest prayers of love and charity “Father, forgive them…” from Luke 23:24.
Then, I know that Jesus in His human nature came to us through the Virgin Mary around 33 B.C., but he was both fully God and fully human.
As fully God, Jesus did not need to speak to the Father for He and the Father were one. (See John 10:30 and John 12:45). As fully human, Jesus was our model of faith and prayer. In his human nature, he showed us how to pray and approach the Father. So in the Bible when you see Jesus “talking” to the Father, look at the context. You will see that he is doing so from his Human nature for our benefit.
Even in his time of agony Jesus does not abandon his Human nature, in fact, he offers up one of the greatest prayers of love and charity “Father, forgive them…” from Luke 23:24.
C
Chatter163
Guest
Answer to title question: Yes 
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cazayoux
Guest
Read all of John Chapter 10.
Here is a snipit
[30] I and the Father are one."
[31] The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
[32] Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?”
[33] The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
Now the New World Translation ends the last quote with ‘a god’.
A blatant change of the text.
However, the theme is clear.
Jesus is about to be stoned for blasphemy.
I asked a JW that visited the house a couple of times if the Jews would really want to stone him for being ‘a’ god?
His answer was yes.
However, this is not the case.
The Jews are monotheistic and would not consider Jesus claiming to be ‘a’ god a stoning offense.
Jesus even claimed to be God.
michel
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Timothysis
Guest
I thought the same way when I was 8 years old. I’ve since gained, at least a little, in wisdom. If you are 8 years old then I apologize; if not, you may need to do a little learning about Christianity.
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palmas85
Guest
Well the way it was described to me was as follows:
The Holy Trinity, consists of three distinct and specific individuals, namely;
The Father
The Son
The Holy Ghost or Spirit if you prefer.
While distinct individuals completely and totally, they share one divine nature or in other words collectively they are defined as
God
Not three Gods, three individuals comprising one Divine Nature.
Now how exactly that is possible i don’t have a clue.
But that is the way it is.
So, The Father is God but He is not Jesus or the Holy Ghost
Jesus is God, but He is not the Father or the Holy Ghost
The Holy Ghost is God, but He is not Jesus or The Father
Each of the three has a function that they perform within the divine nature of God, that is unique to Them…
That is the best way that I can explain it. Maybe someone else can do better.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
If Jesus is God in the flesh why does he always ask “the father” for help? If they are truly one in the same then he is talking to himself…
**Wrong.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons (which word has a technical meaning here) of one essence/nature (which term is also technical).
In MERE CHRISTIANITY, C. S. Lewis gives a simple explanation of what this is like.**
**Wrong.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons (which word has a technical meaning here) of one essence/nature (which term is also technical).
In MERE CHRISTIANITY, C. S. Lewis gives a simple explanation of what this is like.**
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Nickkname
Guest
Jesus is both God and Man. As Man, He prayed to the Father. All of His human actions were directed by His Divinity, so He was not only truly praying as Man but was truly giving us an example: To do God’s will and to pray to the Father. Jesus even gave the Our Father when His disciples asked Him how they ought to pray.
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joseph_virgen
Guest
“are you the Christ, the So of the Blessed One?”
“I Am,” “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven”
that’s as good as it gets. all that remains is for us to ask for wisdom. and that is the job of the Holy Spirity. it is for that reason that God sent him to us
“I Am,” “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven”
that’s as good as it gets. all that remains is for us to ask for wisdom. and that is the job of the Holy Spirity. it is for that reason that God sent him to us
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Philthy
Guest
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ
The only son of God
Eternally begotten of the Father
God from God
Light from light
True God from True God
Begotten, not made
One in being with the Father
The only son of God
Eternally begotten of the Father
God from God
Light from light
True God from True God
Begotten, not made
One in being with the Father
J
jfoges
Guest
Jesus is both fully man and fully God. When he prays he is acting as a human being.
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richardRC
Guest
Yes Jesus is God!
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Sheridan
Guest
I’m going off topic in a sense here… as I have mentioned in the few post I’ve initiated that I am new here, have neglected the Lord for to long in a daily basis, and am not very knowledgeable in matters of the bible.
One question I have been having with myself is how best to describe “the Holy Sprit”. One of you here,I think, did a pretty good job of it - thanks.
I enjoy browsing this forum - I can’t say much because I do not know much but I thank all of you for the insight and offering me even more food for thought.
I’ve always believed but I have not actually appreciated the sacrifice of Christ, it’s meaning, and the gift he gave to us by His selfless act until recent times… I pray He will forgive me this fault.
Again, off topic, but thank you all for helping this individual. Bless you.
One question I have been having with myself is how best to describe “the Holy Sprit”. One of you here,I think, did a pretty good job of it - thanks.
I enjoy browsing this forum - I can’t say much because I do not know much but I thank all of you for the insight and offering me even more food for thought.
I’ve always believed but I have not actually appreciated the sacrifice of Christ, it’s meaning, and the gift he gave to us by His selfless act until recent times… I pray He will forgive me this fault.
Again, off topic, but thank you all for helping this individual. Bless you.
C
cazayoux
Guest
I’ve heard one way recently that I liked.
The Father came to earth in the form of the Son.
These two love each other SO much that the love between them is SO real that it is another being entirely that it has a name, the Holy Spirit.
As we mirror in marriage the trinity, a couple will love each other SO much that in 9 months they might have to name that love as well.
michel
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