Is Judeo-Christian ethics compatible with Kantianism?

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Immanuel Kant, in short, argued that for something to be moral, it must: (a) be done out of duty; (b) be universal and not circumstantial (i.e., lying is wrong because if everybody lied, nobody could be trusted), and (c) treat human beings as ends, not as a means to an end.

Just going by the basics, it seems like his metaphysics fits in well with Catholicism. Are there any deeper teachings of his, that the Church has condemned?
 
Duty is bound by moral, not vica-versa. God, the Lawgiver, is not bound by duty.
 
Duty is bound by moral, not vica-versa. God, the Lawgiver, is not bound by duty.
That is Kant’s position, actually. The point of that is to say that something is good only if its intentions are good (i.e., done out of duty or divine imperative); the outcome is irrelevant, since humans cannot control that. God has no duty, since whatever he ought to do, he already does. Sorry if I articulated that poorly.
 
My mother (a philosophy professor) likes to say that “Kant got as far as anybody could using nothing but what he found in his head.” The tragedy is that Kant’s formidable mind was trapped in the serious errors of Hume and Descartes before him; it would have been wonderful to see what he could have done otherwise.

I’ve only rarely encountered situations where a Kantian and a Thomist disagree about conclusions. They disagree sharply about the reasoning behind those conclusions, but, for practical purposes, Kant and the Church can get along very well.

Now, if we could just get them to deny Hume’s skepticism…
 
Immanuel Kant, in short, argued that for something to be moral, it must: (a) be done out of duty; (b) be universal and not circumstantial (i.e., lying is wrong because if everybody lied, nobody could be trusted), and (c) treat human beings as ends, not as a means to an end.

Just going by the basics, it seems like his metaphysics fits in well with Catholicism. Are there any deeper teachings of his, that the Church has condemned?
Well, seems i’m in luck here. My personal moral theory is kantian-Divine Command theory with just a dab of prima facia ethics thrown in for good measure.

Both Kant’s virtue ethics and Divine Command theory fall under the deontological category of ethics… that is to say, the consequences do not determine the moral right, but that rather morality is a set moral law which must be followed regardless of consequences, such as lying is ALWAYS wrong, no matter what motivation there could be to lie.

The major difference between the two is the source of what is right. Kant was a believer in independent natural law… that is to say, Kant would argue that IF there is a God, and IF that God tells us what is moral, that God is telling us that because those strictures come from an independent and moral natural law. Divine Command theory is just the opposite: there is no natural law in regards to ethics. What is right to do, is right simply because God says it is so. In that one regard, the two theories are incompatible.

I’ll stop for now on that point… if you’d like to know about how I combined the two or where prima facia school of thought comes in, let me know and i’ll go on.
 
I’m going to write an essay on this, and I was wondering if you knew of any scripture verses which would indicate a belief in the idea that morality has to be universally consistent?
 
Have you ever read this?.
I’m not particularly a fan of Peter Kreeft because he oversimplifies many of his arguments. And I’m fairly certain this is guilty of it.

I have never gotten the impression that truth is subjective by Kant. In fact, he himself was a devout Lutheran so I find that hard to believe. I would say that Kant’s brilliant reasoning of morals fits in well with faith, being that he himself spoke of a Kingdom of Ends (Sec. 3 of the Groundwork) where God was the supreme moral law.

What Kreeft perhaps is referring to is Kant’s idea of transcendental idealism. That is to say, experience is based on how we perceive something, not what qualities that object actually has. This is almost undebatably true; only God’s vision isn’t affected by subjectivity. But this doesn’t mean that all truth is subjective itself.

EDIT: I just caught this quote on this article:
Two things fill me with wonder,” Kant confessed: “the starry sky above and the moral law within.” What a man wonders about fills his heart and directs his thought. Note that Kant wonders about only two things: not God, not Christ, not Creation, Incarnation, Resurrection and Judgment, but “the starry sky above and the moral law within.” “The starry sky above” is the physical universe as known by modern science. Kant relegates everything else to subjectivity. The moral law is not “without” but “within,”** not objective but subjective, not a Natural Law of objective rights and wrongs that comes from God but a man-made law by which we decide to bind ourselves.** (But if we bind ourselves, are we really bound?) Morality is a matter of subjective intention only. It has no content except the Golden Rule (Kant’s “categorical imperative”).
This is the opposite of what Kant argued. He said that the laws of reason dictate that moral laws have to absolutely objective, and this is in fact his basis for human rights; all human beings have to be an end, not a means to an end.
 
I would personally approach ethics in the Thomistic light more so than the Kantian light.

The first major problem with Kant’s philosophy is solipsism. According to his epistemology, we cannot get outside of our heads. That is, he attempted to amalmagate the Newtonian physics that was in the air of his day into a moralism, and this is wrought with problems.

He held that we had apriori forms that constituted reality from within our own heads (i.e. they were in us by nature and were what made reality), but here’s the problem, if I cannot know ‘things in themselves’ exterior to me (which Thomas will say to some extent is true as to the absolute essence of a thing), and my mind constitutes those things, then how do I know what I experience in the realm of the senses is the same as what you experience?

This plays right into his ethics because, if it is the case that my own mind is the form of my experiences, then why does it create a world that is a hindrance to my own autonomy? Why would I make a world of sense that is constantly a problem to my world of intellegibility?

Furthermore, like the poster before said, the conclusions drawn from Kant typically agree with those drawn by a Thomist, but the means to arrive at them are far different.
Kant makes a classic mistake – something that modern Christians have bought into that has, to my mind, given Christianity a bad name – and that is to treat contingent realities as if they were necessary (see the beginning of N. Ethics.)

Basically, his understanding of ethics has created the great “thou shalt not” and that morality is all about Law and not about happiness. How often do we hear secular folks saying they cannot accept Christianity because it only tells us what we cannot do, rather than what we can? For Kant, like the Stoics, freedom was essentially saying no to the senses. It commands, do this but only for duty. What enticement is there in that? I much prefer Aquinas’ take, in that happiness is the principle of law, i.e. do not sin and you will be happy, rather than do not sin just because it will make you autonomous and almost holy (I’ve always wondered what Kant really meant by holiness – what is it other than happiness?)

According to Kant, furthermore, we can never be happy because, as he says in the Critique of Practical Reason, we cannot ever have a holy will, even in the afterlife. That my friend, is not Catholic.For Aristotle and Aquinas, freedom was reason properly guiding the senses to their ultimate end.

To my mind, Kant is a temptation to Christians because at first glance he appears to be an answer to relativism. However, there are major flaws in his ethics, none more than his elimination of happiness from the realm of ethics. What motivation have we to behave well on Kant’s account? He has no answer to why the categorical imperative drives us. In short, his philosophy winds up a moralism with no justification for itself.

You’d be better off studying Aristotle and Aquinas, because they are much more in line with Catholic theology. They avoid relativism because they say there are objectively evil acts, but they do not eliminate consequences from their reasoning (i.e. consequences, intentions, accidents, etc. are all absorbed into the object of an act which then determines whether it is good or bad.) Why is it, do you think that we charge a drunk driver with a DUI when he doesn’t kill people, and with manslaughter when he does? It’s because we instinctively recognize that consequences do matter (although not as much as the utilitarians say.)

For Kant, there is one right way to act in all moral situations. For Aristotle and Aquinas, there is a right way to act in every situation, but it requires prudence and good tastes.

Finally, Kant’s philosophy is not impervious to the performance of intrinsically evil acts. For instance, “never tell a lie in your whole life except once.” This is perfectly acceptable on account of the categorical imperative. So I would strongly urge you not to use Kant’s philosophy for the sheer fact that it is not as sound as Thomism. It has many more holes, and on a cultural level, it makes Christianity look bad. We become the duty people instead of those who will make you happy.

Just some thoughts.
 
I would personally approach ethics in the Thomistic light more so than the Kantian light.
I was approaching some means as to reconcile the two. I obviously don’t think Kant was infallible, but I do think the categorical imperative is something worth exploring.
The first major problem with Kant’s philosophy is solipsism. According to his epistemology, we cannot get outside of our heads. That is, he attempted to amalmagate the Newtonian physics that was in the air of his day into a moralism, and this is wrought with problems.
Solipsism is the belief that only I exist. This is clearly not what Kant believes; did you mean, rather, that it is impossible to break through the fact that our senses are subjective? I agree with Kant on this point, actually. In fact, I think this melds well with Aquinas’ harmony between faith and reason. We can use reason to determine many earthly questions, but we have to have faith that fundamentally our reason can be of use at all.
but here’s the problem, if I cannot know ‘things in themselves’ exterior to me (which Thomas will say to some extent is true as to the absolute essence of a thing), and my mind constitutes those things, then how do I know what I experience in the realm of the senses is the same as what you experience?
This is why I find Kant’s philosophy to be so attractive. This is an elephant-in-the-room that other intellectuals were afraid to touch because it would lead to solipsism. I highly admire Kant for the fact that he was able to admit that our senses are fallible, but while holding onto the idea of an objective morality.

Immanuel Kant’s ethics are based on the premise that good intent is what counts, since humans cannot control the outcome at all for various reasons; the main one being that we can’t see the whole picture.
Basically, his understanding of ethics has created the great “thou shalt not” and that morality is all about Law and not about happiness.
He did say that following the moral law will inevitably leave us unhappy, because if we seek happiness, then that taints our actions with a circumstantial desire; as opposed to unconditional good will. I disagree with Kant on this point, being that you can be happy without actively seeking happiness.
How often do we hear secular folks saying they cannot accept Christianity because it only tells us what we cannot do, rather than what we can? For Kant, like the Stoics, freedom was essentially saying no to the senses.
On the contrary, the third section of the Grounding of the Metaphysics of Morals establishes two kinds of freedom: negative freedom, whereby other things do not interfere with us (like a law); and positive freedom, whereby we use our free will to follow the moral law.

Freedom and morality has to be a balance between the two. We have to do good, and not solely avoid evil; and on the other side, we have to willingly follow the categorical imperative, not have it forced upon us.
It commands, do this but only for duty. What enticement is there in that?
Kant is a bit vague on this point. I think doing good because it is the will of God will qualify as doing something for the sake of duty. Perhaps not; in which case, I agree with you.
According to Kant, furthermore, we can never be happy because, as he says in the Critique of Practical Reason, we cannot ever have a holy will, even in the afterlife. That my friend, is not Catholic.
I agree with you. I am not advocating raw Kantianism, I am only enticed by the fact that he was able to use reason to develop a consistent moral law that for the most part agrees with Catholicism. I think Thomism and Kantianism can be reconciled, which would largely increase the rational basis for the Catholic faith, I think.

But correct me if I’m wrong: wasn’t Kant’s point that we can’t be happy in this life, only the afterlife, because it is the afterlife in which we attain an unconditionally good will?
What motivation have we to behave well on Kant’s account?
The Aristotle quote comes to mind: “I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without being commanded, what others do only from fear of the law.”

Although I do disagree with Kant in that we can’t be happy in this life.
You’d be better off studying Aristotle and Aquinas, because they are much more in line with Catholic theology.
I adore Aquinas, I really do. But I feel that Aquinas’ proof for Christianity are not solid enough to convince most other thinkers, and his writings on the moral law are almost entirely based on the fact that they are in accords with divine law. Kant’s philosophy shows that this isn’t the case, that moral law is inherently rational; so even an atheist should follow it.

While our final goal should be to bring others to the Catholic Church, it is possible to do this by showing that the Catholic view of moral law is the most reasonable, through Kantian conclusions.
They avoid relativism because they say there are objectively evil acts, but they do not eliminate consequences from their reasoning (i.e. consequences, intentions, accidents, etc. are all absorbed into the object of an act which then determines whether it is good or bad.) Why is it, do you think that we charge a drunk driver with a DUI when he doesn’t kill people, and with manslaughter when he does? It’s because we instinctively recognize that consequences do matter (although not as much as the utilitarians say.)
This is another point that I strongly agree with Kant on. We can’t control circumstances at all. Only an omniscient God could calculate what the end result is of every action. So aiming at a specific end can often be impossible, being that humans don’t have the intellectual capacity to see if in fact, what we do will have the intended consequence. This is why I feel that morality based on intent is the only system that can be internally consistent.
Finally, Kant’s philosophy is not impervious to the performance of intrinsically evil acts. For instance, “never tell a lie in your whole life except once.” This is perfectly acceptable on account of the categorical imperative.
In what way?
 
E.D.,

First there has been an attempt to reconcile the two philosophers and they are what are known as the “transcendental Thomists” (i.e. Marachel, Lonergan, etc.)

Second, Kant may not have believed his philosophy was guilty of solipsism, but that is where his principles land him. Why? How do I know anything exists outside of me if I am the one constituting that reality? He is rather vague, and difficult to decipher (even his contemporaries said as much), but ultimately, if we accept his principles we cannot know anything actually exists outside of us because our reason is ultimately the making of that reality. We have vague notions, on his account, of things like cause and effect, but other than that we really cannot know that anything truly exists outside of us. (You’ll have to forgive me as its been awhile since I’ve read his Critique of Pure Reason.)

Third, there is a huge difference between Aquinas’ notion of us coming to know things exterior to us and Kant’s. For Thomas, all knowledge originates in the senses, thus there is no doubt that things are exterior to us, but what we know about them is not perfect. For Kant, we make that reality and we have apriori forms. My understading, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that Kant’s transcedentalism is that we are incapable of knowing anything about God or have metaphysical knowledge. We cannot know anything but can only have vague notions of the intelligible realm. For Aquinas, it is much different. It’s the via negativa. We can know things about God by negating things that he is not. Thus we know that God is one, that He is not a body, etc. So I definitely see a difference between the two.

Fourth, Aquinas was not of the opinion that the senses were infallible, but that they were the origin of our knowledge. Like Aristotle, he held that we have the proper, common, and accidental senses. As far as proper sensibles are concerned (like color or smell) we cannot be mistaken. But as to common and accidental senses, we most certainly can be mistaken, i.e. what that thing is that is blue we can be mistaken on. So Aquinas was aware of the errors of sense, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t have senses or that they are always lying to us.

Fifth, while it is true that human beings cannot control the outcomes of actions, nevertheless, you would have a hard time convincing me that they make no difference at all, which is reflected in most forms of law.

Sixth, you mentioned the two kinds of law, negative and positive (In the Metaphysics of Morals); my question is, what is the motivation for following the law on Kant’s account? He himself doesn’t answer it, which is why I call his philosophy a moralism as it lacks justification.

Seventh, as I read the Critique of Practical Reason, Kant basically says that we cannot even have a holy will in the next life, but that we will have to continually better ourselves even there (that is, to my mind, the covering of the dung).

Eigth, I don’t think we necessarily have to base Aquinas’ notion of law on the Eternal Law. 1-2 q.94 a.2 lays out some hardcore philosophy that is not dependent on the existence of God for the natural law. Basically, Aquinas resorts to the idea that we have certain indemonstrable principles (i.e. non-contradiction) that, and there is dispute on this, come from our experience of things rather than apriori. As such, there is philosophical justification for his ideas on law. They are not mere fideism.

I’ve got to go to Mass now, so I cannot finish answering all our ‘disputed questions.’ Be back later.

(Also, this may read like I think I am an expert on Kant, which I am certainly not, but this is how I have interpreted him, so feel free to show me where I am mistaken.)
 
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