Is justifying violent Old Testament narratives online, wise?

[Renarax]

I recently had an idea to start an animated You tube series as an apologetics series. The topics would include the 2 bears and 42 youth , killing of Canaanites because of child sacrifice to Molech, and the “condoning” of slavery.

But when I posted my views on the topics on an atheist forum, I was called many things.

Is this venture wise? I don’t want bad comments on YouTube for others to see

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Speaking from personal experience, it won’t matter what you post on atheist forums, you will be called many things.

However you need to be pretty thoughtful about what you post. While some atheists have the all the manners of a barnyard fowl, and use invective rather than debate, a lot of them are well versed in anything to do with religion. They often have a good grip on Old Testament detail, but they read it with the specific intention of finding anything that they think makes our God look bad, violent, unjust, unfair.

The killing of 42 boys by a cranky she-bear for nothing more than ridiculing a prophet falls right into their hands. I’ve seen that very episode ridiculed on atheist forums as displaying a vindictive God.

I mean when it’s all said and done, we Christians have a hard enough time reconciling God as personified in Christ, compared to the somewhat vindictive and harsh God of the Old Testament. So what do you expect atheists to think?

If you’re going to argue with atheists, be careful what you say.

 

[Faxero]

The atheists are right. God the Father is indeed a vindictive God. Taking revenge on the wicked is one of his favorite hobbies. He’s awfully good at it too, but, knowing our situation, and according to the abundance of his mercy, he thankfully stepped back and allowed Jesus Christ to take command.

I think the primary reason why God is “nicer” rolleyes in the New Testament is because Jesus Christ, not God the Father, was the one leading the war against Satan. Even though the members of the Trinity are the same God, they are, in a strange way, different entities, with unique minds and personalities.

There are 4 parenting styles. God the Father would be an Authoritarian parent, while Jesus Christ would be an authoritative and permissive parent.

God is not an un-involved parent, and rightly so; such a parenting style should not even exist. :banghead:

source: discipline.about.com/od/typesofdiscipline/a/Types-Of-Discipline-Strategies-And-Parenting-Styles.htm

 

[meltzerboy]

The atheists are right. God the Father is indeed a vindictive God. Taking revenge on the wicked is one of his favorite hobbies. He’s awfully good at it too, but, knowing our situation, and according to the abundance of his mercy, he thankfully stepped back and allowed Jesus Christ to take command.

I think the primary reason why God is “nicer” rolleyes in the New Testament is because Jesus Christ, not God the Father, was the one leading the war against Satan. Even though the members of the Trinity are the same God, they are, in a strange way, different entities, with unique minds and personalities.

There are 4 parenting styles. God the Father would be an Authoritarian parent, while Jesus Christ would be an authoritative and permissive parent.

God is not an un-involved parent, and rightly so; such a parenting style should not even exist. :banghead:

source: discipline.about.com/od/typesofdiscipline/a/Types-Of-Discipline-Strategies-And-Parenting-Styles.htm

What you are saying sounds to me not kosher according to Catholic teaching regarding the Trinity. And I know, according to Jewish teaching, it is not really correct.

 

[Joe_5859]

I recently had an idea to start an animated You tube series as an apologetics series. The topics would include the 2 bears and 42 youth , killing of Canaanites because of child sacrifice to Molech, and the “condoning” of slavery.

But when I posted my views on the topics on an atheist forum, I was called many things.

Is this venture wise? I don’t want bad comments on YouTube for others to see

If you don’t want bad comments on YouTube, then don’t post anything on YouTube. Or, at the very least, you can always disable comments for your videos. But, rest assured, if you post something on YouTube regarding religion, you will get bad comments (unless, of course, it doesn’t generate any views at all).

 

[Bob_Crowley]

What you are saying sounds to me not kosher according to Catholic teaching regarding the Trinity. And I know, according to Jewish teaching, it is not really correct.

Well, seeing you’re Jewish, what’s your take on what appears to be an authoritarian Father-figure in the Old Testament, or Jewish Scriptures if we give them a more correct title?

I happened to be at a seminar in early July on the Scriptures where I had the good fortune to be taught by our Archbishop for a day and a half (highly unusual for an Archbishop these days - they don’t usually have the time).

He commented we can learn a lot from the Jewish Rabbis about the Old Testament.

And since they’re your Scriptures, what’s the Jewish take on the seemingly harsh God of the Old Testament aka Jewish Scriptures?

Mind you there are overtones of harshness in the New Testament as well - Judas was the man “who must be lost”; Christ was the one who ushered in the teaching about hell in all its awful threat; Peter pronounced the death sentence on Ananias and Sapphira and they dropped dead on the spot, killed by God; Christ predicted the destruction of the Jewish Temple and all the bloodshed that came with it. It’s not all beer and skittles.

But anyway, I wonder what the Jewish take is on the seemingly harsh God of the Jewish Scriptures - plagues, earthquakes swallowing people, the 40 years wandering in the desert, the destruction of the northern tribes and the captivity in Babylon, the Maccabean period and all the violence of that era? To be honest with you, I really wonder just what the Jewish people did to deserve it all?

 

[Joe_5859]

Well, seeing you’re Jewish, what’s your take on what appears to be an authoritarian Father-figure in the Old Testament, or Jewish Scriptures if we give them a more correct title?

I happened to be at a seminar in early July on the Scriptures where I had the good fortune to be taught by our Archbishop for a day and a half (highly unusual for an Archbishop these days - they don’t usually have the time).

He commented we can learn a lot from the Jewish Rabbis about the Old Testament.

And since they’re your Scriptures, what’s the Jewish take on the seemingly harsh God of the Old Testament aka Jewish Scriptures?

Mind you there are overtones of harshness in the New Testament as well - Judas was the man “who must be lost”; Christ was the one who ushered in the teaching about hell in all its awful threat; Peter pronounced the death sentence on Ananias and Sapphira and they dropped dead on the spot, killed by God; Christ predicted the destruction of the Jewish Temple and all the bloodshed that came with it. It’s not all beer and skittles.

But anyway, I wonder what the Jewish take is on the seemingly harsh God of the Jewish Scriptures - plagues, earthquakes swallowing people, the 40 years wandering in the desert, the destruction of the northern tribes and the captivity in Babylon, the Maccabean period and all the violence of that era? To be honest with you, I really wonder just what the Jewish people did to deserve it all?

I’m interested in Meltzerboy’s response, too, but I will just say that the perception of God as vindictive and harsh in the Old Testament is really incomplete and does not adequately factor in all of the Old Testament. Look at Psalm 51. Or Hosea 11. There is plenty of talk of God’s tender love for His people, even in the Old Testament.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

The atheists are right. God the Father is indeed a vindictive God. Taking revenge on the wicked is one of his favorite hobbies. He’s awfully good at it too, but, knowing our situation, and according to the abundance of his mercy, he thankfully stepped back and allowed Jesus Christ to take command.

I think the primary reason why God is “nicer” rolleyes in the New Testament is because Jesus Christ, not God the Father, was the one leading the war against Satan. Even though the members of the Trinity are the same God, they are, in a strange way, different entities, with unique minds and personalities.

There are 4 parenting styles. God the Father would be an Authoritarian parent, while Jesus Christ would be an authoritative and permissive parent.

God is not an un-involved parent, and rightly so; such a parenting style should not even exist. :banghead:

My parents were “involved.” They punished me if I spoke rudely to someone. They didn’t maul me to death with bears. I’m not saying I had the best parents in the world, but I’m pretty happy they didn’t do that. Not saying they’re better parents than God, but yeah, don’t kill your children with bears for making a mistake does seem like a fine parenting tip.

Also, other stuff, like don’t ask your children to perform a ritual murder of their child as a sign of their loyalty to you. That’s also not advisable on so many levels.

 

[Faxero]

My parents were “involved.” They punished me if I spoke rudely to someone. They didn’t maul me to death with bears. I’m not saying I had the best parents in the world, but I’m pretty happy they didn’t do that. Not saying they’re better parents than God, but yeah, don’t kill your children with bears for making a mistake does seem like a fine parenting tip.

Also, other stuff, like don’t ask your children to perform a ritual murder of their child as a sign of their loyalty to you. That’s also not advisable on so many levels.

:tsktsk:

As a human parent, your job is to maintain your offspring’s physical health, which is but dust.

As creator and master of the universe, God’s job is to maintain our spiritual health, which lasts forever.

There is a difference between a mistake and a sin. A mistake is any action, either physical or verbal, that is done accidentally.

The dimwits who ridiculed the prophet did so willingly, and so death surprised them. Holy Scripture seems to assert the idea that the children deserved to die, and since Scripture is God’s word, then it is advisable to trust the prophet’s judgement.

Don’t defend the wicked, so matter how young or old they are!

The apostles praised Abraham for following God’s plans, not his own. Would you be willing to hate your family in order to follow Christ? (figuratively)

And for the record, God’s parenting skills are certainly better than those of all human parents, including your own.

God bless them for rearing you properly, though. For scripture has it: “Raise your children in the way they should go, so when they age they won’t depart from it.”

 

[AMFV]

The problem is that we don’t have the exact context or all of the information for any of these particular events. We have only partial information. I don’t know why the children were killed by the bears, and in this lifetime it is unlikely that I will ever know. It is very likely something that we cannot fathom. God is just, but his justice is not ours, and his ways are not our ways. Why was Cain’s sacrifice not pleasing, why did God permit David to sacrifice before a battle but not Saul? We don’t have enough information to accurately assess the scenario, or even enough to make an inaccurate assessment.

I would say that this is not a matter for apologetics, this is a case of the human ideal of justice being limited and flawed. We tend to view death as the WORST punishment, but really death is not the worst way a person could be punished, maybe in the case of those children it was a mercy, maybe they would have grown to forsake God, and to commit terrible crimes, I don’t really know, God’s justice and God’s judgement is all-knowing and it exists in a way that is not comprehensible to us. But it is just.