Is JW preaching an invitation to marital infidelity?

[Mapi]

It’s a communication program. Here’s the link so you can see for yourself, I don’t know much about it, so I don’t want to tell you what it is and give you the wrong information.

www.retrouvaille.org

Thanks for sending me the link but, there is no Retrouvaille in the state of Utah

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Dear Yessian,
I will be committing Retrouvaille to prayer all week because I can tell you right now if your husband even lets on to the JWs he is going to do this with you they will have him before a committee of elders and discipline him for even thinking about going!
I can’t even imagine they would go for this.
also, just to put a bug in your ear, JWs have also been known to send in spies to forums to check on certain ones in their congregations.
Ravyn

 

[yessisan]

for us catholics a true understanding of marriage is that both have equal rights and respect for each other. I am surprised you didnt put any bible verses that quote that issue. I know you dont know that for catholics to be married it is a sacrament a vocation and so therefore the institution of marriage should at all times be considered . What you are saying is that since he is the head of the house because he is a man he should be allowed to do God’s work at the expense of how she feels. Wrong!!!
Second we dont take marriage lightly because it is a covenant with God that we as a couple decide to make. So the marriage itself is never taken lightly before God.

I totally agree with you on this one. The Sacrament of itself IS sacred. That is why I told Steve that in my house, both DH and I are equal. But remember, the only things JWs know about Catholics are lies the WTBS tells them.

This is such a deja vu, I was taliking about this w/DH after our argument…

Yessisan, I just read that other thread you mentioned that I did not know about.
This is not advice but an observation:
As I said before, I THOUGHT Jw’s were to lead spotless lives.
Clearly that thread indicates to me, he is not taking HIS religion seriously let alone…

He isn’t really, I found porn many times in our home computer and add that to the other incident, not true JW behavior, or what they say is JW behavior. He wasn’t really shunned by his friends, they used to go out and get drunk before we married, and he was already disfellowshipped, not to mention the dinking being wwong…

…suddenly, Pop- out of nowhere this woman with a kid needs a “study” with- of all people YOUR husband.

It adds up to suspect behavior to me.

He is probobly doing this because an elder engineered this whole thing with high hopes to get RID of the Catholic problem in this marriage and destroy it.

I wouldn’t doubt it… they are very sneaky, ask Ravyn.

I dont trust them, they distort the truth to ludicruous proportions and I could say more but that is enough.

I don’t either.

Why didnt your DH have to go in front of the elders to confess this shameful behavior? Dont the JW’s MAKE the members do this? I read an article on their official page that so much as made it very clear. I wish they had a CCC type format to review their teachings but I can see why they dont want to.

I asked him the same thing yesterday, and you know what he said? “Don’t judge me! God is the only one that knows if I feel bad about those things” I wasn’t judging him… but here we go again w/the JW behavior that is against his religion. I did confess, and my priest recommended retrouvaille after I had already signed up for it…

If you ever found out that you were lied to in a grand way you would be very upset and here we have you who still believes these lies

Who wouldn’t in Ravyn’s case?

exactly. marriage is a Sacrament. the only ones involved in this is the husband, wife and God. It is highly disrespectful to interfere in this relationship. And Steve crossed that line. To me, I imagine it might be the same as a Jewish person being forced to eat pork or someone spitting on the Koran to a Muslim.
Ravyn

Just as you stated, the husband, wife and God…

The Scriptures give valuable advice to both husbands and wifes…

But in your man-centered religion, the woman is nothing in the marriage. All she is is the cook, the caregiver, and the pleasure factor. I’ve seen how JW women act around their husbands. I’ve seen how they are treated. They are more than submissive, they are their slaves.

Exactly Ravyn,
I dont know much on how JWs conduct their marriages but let me tell you it has not been exemplery. I know that many catholics married or not dont live out their faith but I am speaking on those of us who try to…

They are repeatedly told to have the woman be the “slave” and the man is the one who makes ALL decisions.

Bible Steve,

Yessisan DOES honor her husband!
If you are accusing her of something, then say it. Dont hide behind a bible verse.
You did read Yessisans other thread did you not? The man is the stronger vessel and I am dissapointed all his bible studies with the JW’s never DROVE home that Point.

I do honor my husband, Steve doesn’t know what goes on in my house. Remember the man in a JW marriage is the head and he’s basically not to be questioned. I found that to be hillarious when I heard it at their meetings.

 

[yessisan]

YOUR chaste conduct together with deep respect.

If my husband was doing something that I considered not chaste where is the respect for me and for himself?

Where is it? It doesn’t exist.

If someone outside our marriage says that they need something that either of us find questionable and are not comfortable with where is the honor and fidelity to one another. Not even my own mother has rights over me let alone someone from our parish. I consult my dh as he does me period.

The problem here is that I consulted DH and he doesn’t see anything wrong, and he’s not willing to let that study go.

That only brings me to 2 questions, “Should I let him have it at home?” or “Should I ask him again to take someone with him?”

When I told him I wasn’t comfortable he said he can take me to introduce me to the mom…

 

[yessisan]

Dont worry about it being catholic they have the utmost respect for poeple of other faiths. It was such a blessing and am most grateful that we went. I think that he is just paranoid and he really he nothing to worry about. There is a priest always present and you are always free to talk to him. Your dh does not have to particiapte at the mass its his decision, although I think you shouldnt skip that part of the weekend just because he cant handle anything catholic. Many couples of other faiths skipped out on the mass, just really try to to learn the dialogue techniques and you will be fine.

I won’t be missing the Mass, but he already said he won’t attend. I don’t care really, because I don’t want him to expect me to attend his meetings.

 

[yessisan]

Dear Yessian,
I will be committing Retrouvaille to prayer all week because I can tell you right now if your husband even lets on to the JWs he is going to do this with you they will have him before a committee of elders and discipline him for even thinking about going!
I can’t even imagine they would go for this.
also, just to put a bug in your ear, JWs have also been known to send in spies to forums to check on certain ones in their congregations.
Ravyn

Ha, they actually do that? Well, they don’t know who my husband is, so I’m not worried.

Anywho, DH hasn’t told the JWs he’s going, and he won’t. I know this because he asked me not to tell his sisters he’s attending. Plus, he’s doing this as a promise he made me for me to come back home after an incident we had 3 wks ago… but once again, the JW is not really a JW, doesn’t confess, doesn’t attend, hits his wife, looks at porn, goes to bdays parties, somewaht celerates Christmas and Thanksgiving, buys bday and xmas presents, celebrates his bday… oh, we even had a Chritsmas tree, nutrcrakers, a Nativity and stocking… Maybe it’s just a matter of time before he leaves them.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Remember the man in a JW marriage is the head and he’s basically not to be questioned. I found that to be hillarious when I heard it at their meetings.

let me tell you how hilarious that is—if there is adultery in the marriage and the husband is the guilty party, he can ask forgiveness of his wife and he does not have to go before the elders, and if they then proceed to have sex after she knows of his infidelity–she has forgiven him and it is done–there is no going back to it even if it happens again. There is no JW grounds for divorce if there was make-up sex!
BUT if the wife is the guilty party the husband can bring her before the elders, she might be disfellowshipped (most of the time she is) and the husband is free to remarry another JW.
My annointed JW elder father cheated on my mother their whole marriage but after 33 years of being married to her he finally ran off with the other woman. Because he ran off with her and it was obvious–he was disfellowshipped. However, he was reinstated because he claimed my mother was a lesbian and had cheated on him first! (My mother never cheated on him with anyone and to accuse her of being a lesbian is utterly ridiculous, but he thot if he said she was a lesbian then he didn’t have to come up with another man involved! ) So not only did he destroy her marriage but he destroyed her reputation–her friends and most of her non-JW family even rejected her because of his claims. Of course the elders and everyone else believed him because he was one of the annointed. And he is still with the woman he left my mother for some 20 years later and she never even pretended to be interested in becoming a JW. But he is in good standing. He pretends the first 33 years never happened, including his two children.
BEWARE.
Ravyn

 

[yessisan]

let me tell you how hilarious that is—if there is adultery in the marriage and the husband is the guilty party, he can ask forgiveness of his wife and he does not have to go before the elders, and if they then proceed to have sex after she knows of his infidelity–she has forgiven him and it is done–there is no going back to it even if it happens again. There is no JW grounds for divorce if there was make-up sex!
BUT if the wife is the guilty party the husband can bring her before the elders, she might be disfellowshipped (most of the time she is) and the husband is free to remarry another JW.
My annointed JW elder father cheated on my mother their whole marriage but after 33 years of being married to her he finally ran off with the other woman. Because he ran off with her and it was obvious–he was disfellowshipped. However, he was reinstated because he claimed my mother was a lesbian and had cheated on him first! (My mother never cheated on him with anyone and to accuse her of being a lesbian is utterly ridiculous, but he thot if he said she was a lesbian then he didn’t have to come up with another man involved! ) So not only did he destroy her marriage but he destroyed her reputation–her friends and most of her non-JW family even rejected her because of his claims. Of course the elders and everyone else believed him because he was one of the annointed. And he is still with the woman he left my mother for some 20 years later and she never even pretended to be interested in becoming a JW. But he is in good standing. He pretends the first 33 years never happened, including his two children.
BEWARE.
Ravyn

This makes me sick. It also makes me think of the fact that when a JW woman is raped, she needs 2 witnesses, otherwise, she can’t prove it. The more I talk about them, the more angry I get, and the more arguments I have with DH. Let’s not go into how man-centered this religion is, it makes me sick.

 

[Hellisreal]

I can’t believe what I am reading here.
(I do believe you Rayvn, I am saying I cant believe this is how JW’s handle marriage situations- to be clear!)

Is any of this mentioned in their literature or on their site? Does anyone who joins the JW’s know these things when they join?

Bible Steve, I am hoping you can clarify a bit. As I said before, I wish there was a CCC type of format for anyone to see all the teachings so one could be armed with the facts before joining. I dont understand how the things I am reading here regarding marriage and elders involvement in one could be remotely construed as bible based. so as not to hyjack the thread if you want to PM me with an answer to this feel free.
But, I must say I am dissapointed in the results of your bible studies to be sure. It shows to me there are a lot of passages being skipped over.

Getting back to the topic (sorry Yessisan for the sidetrack) -
Is this bible study under these circumstances an invitation to marital infidelity?

Well, I will have to get the CCC out and lets take it from there.

 

[Hellisreal]

This makes me sick. It also makes me think of the fact that when a JW woman is raped, she needs 2 witnesses, otherwise, she can’t prove it. The more I talk about them, the more angry I get, and the more arguments I have with DH. Let’s not go into how man-centered this religion is, it makes me sick.

How many rapists rape with witnesses around?!?!

ISLAM demands 4 witnesses if I am not mistaken!

Both religions deny the Trinity!

 

[yessisan]

I can’t believe what I am reading here.
(I do believe you Rayvn, I am saying I cant believe this is how JW’s handle marriage situations- to be clear!)

Is any of this mentioned in their literature or on their site? Does anyone who joins the JW’s know these things when they join?

This isn’t in writing. Let’s say they are “traditions”. And if you’re referring to joining as in baptizing, yes, they know. If you’re referring to joining as in starting to study the bible, then no they don’t, they find out after a while if they attend the meetings.

Getting back to the topic (sorry Yessisan for the sidetrack) -
Is this bible study under these circumstances an invitation to marital infidelity?

Well, I will have to get the CCC out and lets take it from there.

The bible study location could be the invitation to adultery, not the study itself. I don’t know if his bible study is w/that intention for the mother of that child, but my DH is not willing to put our marriage in risk (in that sense, or so he says). I hope this is the answer you were looking for, if not let me know.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

I can’t believe what I am reading here.
(I do believe you Rayvn, I am saying I cant believe this is how JW’s handle marriage situations- to be clear!)

Is any of this mentioned in their literature or on their site? Does anyone who joins the JW’s know these things when they join?

Bible Steve, I am hoping you can clarify a bit. As I said before, I wish there was a CCC type of format for anyone to see all the teachings so one could be armed with the facts before joining. I dont understand how the things I am reading here regarding marriage and elders involvement in one could be remotely construed as bible based.

how the elders deal with ‘problems’ is not in the ‘public’ JW literature. The elders have secret manuals they use. When a person is ready to be baptized they are given a book–used to be called Organized for Kingdom Preaching, and before that one it was the Organization book–and it is not for public perusal. When I attended Pioneer Service School I was also given a book not to be shown to normal ‘publishers’ called Shining as Illuminators. You can somtimes find these books offered on eBay, but usually if they are offered some elder will scoop they up before anyone sees them.

If Steve is an elder he will know about this, but I doubt he will admit any of it.

Ravyn

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

How many rapists rape with witnesses around?!?!

ISLAM demands 4 witnesses if I am not mistaken!

Both religions deny the Trinity!

not only is the witnesses thing required, but the woman is also required to resist. I was mugged once and it would have been a sexual attack if I had not kept my wits about me, but the first thing the elders—in a back room with no other women present–asked me was if I had screamed ( because if I had not screamed it would have been fornication on my part and I would have been disfellowshipped–even tho my attacker had a weapon!)

Ravyn

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Let’s not go into how man-centered this religion is, it makes me sick.

I am sorry sweetie—I won’t talk about it anymore.
Ravyn

 

[Hellisreal]

not only is the witnesses thing required, but the woman is also required to resist. I was mugged once and it would have been a sexual attack if I had not kept my wits about me, but the first thing the elders—in a back room with no other women present–asked me was if I had screamed ( because if I had not screamed it would have been fornication on my part and I would have been disfellowshipped–even tho my attacker had a weapon!)

Ravyn

One step away from a flogging. A mental flogging. Just as bad, if not worse really. Pysical scars can heal quicker than mental/spiritual abuse.

I need to take a step back, I feel the coming on and I need to pray.

I am going to get the CCC though. Dear Lord, have mercy on the JW’s for these things they do thinking it brings you honor and glory, this I pray in Christ Jesus’ name amen.

I am so bummed out now. I thought they were upstanding people.

 

[Hellisreal]

Take a look at this thread. Note Mirror Mirror’s post and 1ke’s posts.

Note the Protestant views as well.

Then, lets compare all this to the JW views on marital infidelity!

Here is the link that may be helpful so I dont have to type it all out:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=158961

1ke is wise.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

the secret JW elders manual used to be called Shepherds of the Flock—but I have been out for 10 years so I am not sure if it has been updated. I do recall an elder friend of mine telling me once that in the case of a mentally ill person with more than one personality that one personality at a time can be disfellowshipped.

Ravyn

PS apparently the name of the book is Pay Attention to Yourselves and the Needs of the Flock and here is a link to an online version of it:

theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/jwsecret.htm

I did not read this link so I am not sure what it contains.
R

 

[yessisan]

Take a look at this thread. Note Mirror Mirror’s post and 1ke’s posts.

Note the Protestant views as well.

Then, lets compare all this to the JW views on marital infidelity!

Here is the link that may be helpful so I dont have to type it all out:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=158961

1ke is wise.

Thanks for the link! I don’t look at the apologetics side very often. Great to see this, maybe I’ll print it out and share it w/DH.

 

[Hellisreal]

Thanks for the link! I don’t look at the apologetics side very often. Great to see this, maybe I’ll print it out and share it w/DH.

No need to thank me, 1ke and MM did all the “work” here!

Anything, anytime for you- I wish I could do more. I can pray, and watch your threads, and you can always PM me for a shoulder. Sometimes coming to this side is too much for me, but I will keep an eye open.

And Rayvn- thanks for the eye opener on the JW’s. I never would have imagined any of this stuff in my wildest nightmares.

I better get on the prayer threads so I can change my mood.

 

[Hellisreal]

the secret JW elders manual used to be called Shepherds of the Flock—but I have been out for 10 years so I am not sure if it has been updated. I do recall an elder friend of mine telling me once that in the case of a mentally ill person with more than one personality that one personality at a time can be disfellowshipped.

Ravyn

PS apparently the name of the book is Pay Attention to Yourselves and the Needs of the Flock and here is a link to an online version of it:

theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/jwsecret.htm

I did not read this link so I am not sure what it contains.
R

Do they baptise all personalities too?

This is downright comical, sorry!

“forbidden knowlege” sounds like it. I would forbid this book in my house.